Corban_White
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Payson, AZ
Gravy's 2005 Liberty Renegade
- Thread starter Gravy
- Start date
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
That's where I've been mistaken. I understood all of that: I just incorrectly labeled KPI as the angle created between your the imaginary castor line drawn up continuous from upper and lower bj and up from contact patch center point to that imaginary intersection point. I can't for the life of me think what to call that angle. (I guess I would label it imaginary effective steering thrust angle or trail).
And this angle changes based upon backspacing and tire diameter...
And this angle changes based upon backspacing and tire diameter...
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
Corban you're right on the money. I didn't see your post on trail until after I did this rudimentary screen draw lol.
Anyways my observation is that every time I've changed a tire size up on my vehicles I shoot for a little less measured caster because that trail angle increases. And too much return to center is the culprit often for death wobble and (steering lift in extreme cases I think in mountain/!motor bike land too much trail feels like floppy steering like on a chopper). But it's obviously a fine balance: too little caster means too little return to center and wandering steering.
Anyways my observation is that every time I've changed a tire size up on my vehicles I shoot for a little less measured caster because that trail angle increases. And too much return to center is the culprit often for death wobble and (steering lift in extreme cases I think in mountain/!motor bike land too much trail feels like floppy steering like on a chopper). But it's obviously a fine balance: too little caster means too little return to center and wandering steering.
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- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
Okay I feel completely silly but these tires are 245 75 17s.
They look freaking rad we'll see how much they rub 😂
I went with the narrower ones up front to hopefully preserve ball joints (I'm actually not worried about the uppers since the RRO ones use an Escalade ball joint) and keep the rub to a minimum...
They almost look right because the stock JL steel wheel has so much backspacing that with a little adapter spacer they don't look too bad.
They look freaking rad we'll see how much they rub 😂
I went with the narrower ones up front to hopefully preserve ball joints (I'm actually not worried about the uppers since the RRO ones use an Escalade ball joint) and keep the rub to a minimum...
They almost look right because the stock JL steel wheel has so much backspacing that with a little adapter spacer they don't look too bad.
- Location
- West Jordan
The angle you're talking about is still just the caster angle whether you're measuring it above or below the centerline, and doesn't change with tire size - I think what "trail" (might have a different name when talking 4-wheel vehicles?) refers to is the distance between the 2 lines (at ground level). That certainly does change with tire size, and I'd assume it does indeed have an effect on handling.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
Trail distance increases yes. Also you're assuming the spindle and contact patch centerline is dead centerline to the BJs. Usually it isn't. Any change in tire size and backspacing moves that distance from contact patch centerline to ball joint centerline point in both the x and y axis.
"Trail angle" or "effective steering angle" would be a compound of all these things.
I think we're both saying mostly the same thing but I'm saying poorly.
"Trail angle" or "effective steering angle" would be a compound of all these things.
I think we're both saying mostly the same thing but I'm saying poorly.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
Welp. I like it.
It rubs some but I'll address that later.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
Daystar extended bumpstops.
Trimmed the pinch seam and inner fender well plastic "hump."
Moar trimming
Trimmed the pinch seam and inner fender well plastic "hump."
Moar trimming
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- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
New rear shocks and longer bumpstops.
Rough Country N3 23257_B (for 2.5"-5" lift).
Stock is 14.120-14.25" compressed 22" exteneded I think; these are 15.65" compressed 25.98" extended... And obviously newer firmer twin tube nitros instead of whatever emulsion garbage shock is stock.
Pulled the spring to check for bump travel: looks aaaaabout perfect as the bump compresses almost fully before the shock runs out of uptravel. (This is purely hypothetical because the spring could never compress this much).
Trying something new here: wire tied the old bumpstops into the coil spacer void to shorten travel at full bump (even a bit more) but a little softer than the old go to of hockey pucks. (And hopefully keep it out of coil bind at full compression).
And moaaarrr trimming up front
A little cheapo tech. If anyone wants shock shaft bumpstops, a stock liberty rear bump drilled out to 5/8" and sliced in half will slide over a shock shaft perfectly then just hose clamp or wire tie the bump around in the three grooves and it should work perfect.
(This was the plan but I'm trying this other thing first to keep pressure off the shock body).
Bummer deal on the test ride: the upper shock sleeves were too narrow and clunking around. Now I've got to press out the stock ones and press in some wider ones or (cheat the width with a washer.)
Rough Country N3 23257_B (for 2.5"-5" lift).
Stock is 14.120-14.25" compressed 22" exteneded I think; these are 15.65" compressed 25.98" extended... And obviously newer firmer twin tube nitros instead of whatever emulsion garbage shock is stock.
Pulled the spring to check for bump travel: looks aaaaabout perfect as the bump compresses almost fully before the shock runs out of uptravel. (This is purely hypothetical because the spring could never compress this much).
Trying something new here: wire tied the old bumpstops into the coil spacer void to shorten travel at full bump (even a bit more) but a little softer than the old go to of hockey pucks. (And hopefully keep it out of coil bind at full compression).
And moaaarrr trimming up front
A little cheapo tech. If anyone wants shock shaft bumpstops, a stock liberty rear bump drilled out to 5/8" and sliced in half will slide over a shock shaft perfectly then just hose clamp or wire tie the bump around in the three grooves and it should work perfect.
(This was the plan but I'm trying this other thing first to keep pressure off the shock body).
Bummer deal on the test ride: the upper shock sleeves were too narrow and clunking around. Now I've got to press out the stock ones and press in some wider ones or (cheat the width with a washer.)
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anderson750
I'm working on it Rose
- Location
- Price, Utah
I am disappointed you didn't fill it with tennis balls
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
It made the semi-finals in my mind.
Also I just installed new wider upper shock bushing sleeves so hopefully no more clunking and rewarded myself with some dirty Taco Bell.
ChestonScout
opinions are like Jeeps..
- Location
- Clinton, Ut
You beat me to it!!
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
Took the kids on a "last day of school" mild wheeling ride. Jammed some whoops, womped some puddles had a good time and no more rubbing and the rear wheels don't nearly lift as much with the longer shocks and bigger tires with the lift.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
I paid a shop to do work on this thing. Really it was so cheap. Went in for an alignment (1yr alignment is the jam when you drive an IFS anything off-road lol)
The steering rack bushings were out and Big-O qouted me 1/2hr labor.
I couldn't even drive to the auto parts store, buy them and come back home in half an hour...
The steering rack bushings were out and Big-O qouted me 1/2hr labor.
I couldn't even drive to the auto parts store, buy them and come back home in half an hour...
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- Location
- Stinkwater
I hope Big O did better by you than they do by me. Last time I took a truck to a Big O for an alignment is the last time ever.
They did terrible alignments for me twice before I learned my lesson.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
🤷♂️
I dunno, I suppose I've got a few friends at the one in Bountiful so they've treated me pretty good. It's also convenient for me since they're within walking distance.
I just give them the alignment specs I want to hit beforehand and have asked them to redo it when it wasn't quite right.
I’m sure having friends there makes all the difference. They have the equipment to do it right so I don’t know why it was so far out still. Last alignment I had done at a big o I took it back twice before going to alignment specialist.
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
I tried to use a hitch extender but it was way wobbly.
So I took the spare off, but this ultimate MX hauler works pretty darn good when I don't want to drag out the truck and ramp.
So I took the spare off, but this ultimate MX hauler works pretty darn good when I don't want to drag out the truck and ramp.