- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
And this fascist, GAH!!!’
Political So now what
- Thread starter 4x4_Welder
- Start date
Political discussions within
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
Ok, fair enough.
Why did Biden preemptively pardon those involved with Jan 6th investigations?
Because during the campaign Trump specifically and repeatedly talked about revenge and that even members of Congress should be jailed.
Whether you support Trump or not that should be seen as wrong.
And even if no charges would stick, the stress, financial cost and other aspects of being charged is not something they should have to risk.
As to your questions on the BLM protestors i don't have an answer and strongly suspect you have zero clue either and are just assuming few or no charges came of the
While it is very likely an over reaction, some context is important. Musk is a vocal supporter of far right political parties in Germany and elsewhere.
That does make the accusations more plausible.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
The far right parties in Germany (current parties) are not nazis either.
Trate D
Well-Known Member
Exactly, but if it’s Trump on trial totally worth it. Got it.
- Location
- Price, Utah
Wonder what Baron said to Joe to change him from smiles to WTF. Not sure if the look ack was part of it since it is an edited cut, but the expression makes you wonder.
And this one made me laugh after the Autism comments in this thread
And this one made me laugh after the Autism comments in this thread
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Spork
Tin Foil Hat Equipped
- Location
- Saratoga Springs, UT
Was going to comment and at this point I'm moving on. I'm glad the political prisoners held by the Biden administration were pardoned. Grandma didn't deserve it. I'm glad Biden can go retire in Delaware and spend the kickbacks for what he sent to Ukraine.
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
No, nothing makes it plausible. Predetermination, hate, may make it seem so. But it's really not.
- DAA
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
P.S.
This smells like SNL skit material.
- DAA
This smells like SNL skit material.
- DAA
glockman
I hate Jeep trucks
- Location
- Pleasant Grove
Dumb was a very bad choice of words. You are not a dumb dude. Incorrect would have been better. Believe it or not, you have changed my mind on a few things.
Your statement contradicts itself. China is only able to out bid/undersell US companies because of the IP theft, so yes, Tariffs will apply there. They steal our IP and sell it back to us cheaper than US firms who invested the R&D money can produce for.
As for foreign governments not paying the tariffs, I believe that is inaccurate also. My former employer was sued in China, buy a Chinese Semiconductor company for IP theft. They presented documents in court (Chinese court) showing they had designed a process. Those documents had Micron document ID's. They presented the IP they stole as proof that we stole their IP. They won that suit. The company is/was just a front for the provincial government. So any tariff paid by a Chinese company is just money coming from the government, through the company.
glockman
I hate Jeep trucks
- Location
- Pleasant Grove
You think that was politically motivated? I thought it just took them 3.5 years to come up with the evidence to try him on 45 felony charges. Seems legit. Alignment with the election doesn't seem fishy at all.Exactly, but if it’s Trump on trial totally worth it. Got it.
Biden pardons Hunter and the left is fine with that. Trump pardons all J6 participants and the right sees no issues. They/we are all hypocrites. This is all lunacy.
The border needed to be closed. The innocent people of J6 needed to be pardoned. I hope the momentum gained by the right when the left pushed the swing as high as they could, won't ruin the country.
I'm waiting for rappers to be banned and concerts to be shut down. Welcome back to the 90's, but without the good parts.
Pike2350
Registered User
- Location
- Salt Lake City
Thr company exporting the goods isn't the one paying for the tariff...the company importing the goods does....so I am not sure how those Chinese companies will pay unless they are in the US and importing. Sure, this will be some but the vast majority of tariffs will hit normal goods that the average American buys.
I have worked with a few companies that import flooring (LVP most affected by this) we saw the original increase in our cost when the goods hit the port when Trump was in office the first time....ranged between 15-25%.
Now, I am also not doomsday about these tariffs and think some tariffs will be beneficial. The last time he did this, the economy was on more solid (albeit debt ridden) ground then it is now and many people didn't notice too bad. These new tariffs could have a negative impact due to the inflation over the past 5 years really putting people in a pinch.
I will be curious to see the overall affect on the economy. I know tariffs should be strategic, but Trump tends to use a machete when he should use a scalpel. I think he has self control issues.
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- Location
- Price, Utah
I believe the posturing on tariff's also has to do with the fact that many of these countries put them on our products going into their countries. From that perspective, it is about negotiating and leveling the playing field for them to import more of our products
02SE
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Millcreek, UT
I'm sorry, I assumed you were an adult. Not an immature 13 year old.
Don't worry little guy, one day you'll grow up.
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
I think we are talking about two different issues.
Yes, IP theft is a problem and does harm US companies. No arguments with you there. When fines or other measures actually succeed against those committing IP theft (admittedly rare) it is the guilty company paying the fine.
Tariffs are a tax on imported goods, paid for by the company that imports the product- not the exporter and absolutely not any government.
As with any tax or other expense the cost of that tax is built into the cost of the product when it reaches the store shelves and thus it is the average consumer paying the tariff.
Pike2350
Registered User
- Location
- Salt Lake City
And I'll make sure I stay off you lawn old man.
glockman
I hate Jeep trucks
- Location
- Pleasant Grove
I understand that the point of transaction for the tariff is the importer, but in order for the company producing the goods to maintain competitive pricing, they have to cut costs or raise prices. Either of those is actions cost the manufacturing company money and/or market share, which is money. They can't normally (especially with luxury/consumer items like electronics) just raise prices. People will stop buying, which will retract the economy, which is bad. I think China is in a bad place though. They can't stop selling to the US or their entire economy will collapse.
Toyota is a great example of this. The tariffs on foreign automakers made it nearly impossible for Toyota to sell cars and trucks made in Japan. Toyota was not paying the tariffs, but the cost of the tariff at import made them no longer competitive. So Toyota would have to slash prices(profits) or start manufacturing in the US. They chose the latter.
I don't think Trump anticipates these tariffs being a long term thing. They are a short term disruption to get other countries to change anti American policies. We are already seeing a resurgence of Tech companies moving manufacturing to the US. The CHIPS act (one of Biden's better moves) jump started this. These are high paying manufacturing jobs that the US is perfectly suited for if we aren't being robbed and cheated into bankruptcy by East Asian government ran companies. I know lumber and other markets are different.
I know I swore I was done....
You know the old adage, "cheap, fast, good. Pick 2"? The American consumer wants all three.
The company producing the goods doesn't have to remain competitive, because in many cases there aren't many other good options. The number of places set up for manufacturing, with access to a port, and access to massive amounts of cheap labor are limited. There are likely very few options for purchasing raw materials and manufactured goods outside of the countries these tariffs are going on, without massive investment in infrastructure. This may very well happen, and in many cases I'm certain it will (like your Toyota example), but not everywhere. Like was said somewhere above, this approach needs to happen with scalpel, not a hammer.
American consumer's will still want things cheap/fast/good, so American importers and business owners will have to be the ones to figure out how to maintain competitive pricing in an economy that has increased competition for every dollar in the consumer's pocket. And there are less of those due to real property costs sky rocketing creating elevated rents (both residential and commercial). Businesses have to charge more, can pay less, and goods are going to cost more (while wage growth will stagnate, especially as unemployment begins climbing). Only the VERY large will be able to survive on thin margins due to their higher volumes and economies of scale. This is all very bad. For all of us. But, you saw Bezos there right? Right. Small businesses start to collapse, defaulting on SBA loans to the government, driving up unemployment and creating competition for jobs that will drive wages down even further relative to the CPI.
But all of this is happening as we just normalize the othering of America. "us" and "them" and very little we. It's a systematic and, in my opinion, intentional division sewn by this administration for a very deliberate purpose. We can't (or aren't willing to) listen to each other because we're so busy calling each other pathetic and stupid if "they" don't accept our absolutist position on the most insanely complex and nuanced issues that we likely have little more than surface level knowledge of anyway. It's like a pissing match between arm-chair-quarterbacks. And while we're all covered in our own piss, the super rich are busy setting the table for their feast.
Yes, because the techno-crats (thanks for that @Herzog ) can profit there because we have a more skilled work force and relatively inexpensive energy prices compared to other places with similarly skilled available labor. But I don't think Trump anticipates much besides his next golf outing or trip into the Miss America dressing room. I don't think he has an inner monologue. He just spouts off whatever random thing comes to his mind, surrounds himself with his yes men to fondle his ego and say the rich old billionaire equivalent of "ya boiiiiieeeee", and is then emboldened to double down on it. Embellish it with some hyperbole, take a shot at someone that his followers also hate to draw some A to B connection, and boom. Let's go to Panama. It works so beautifully because once he says the next ridiculous thing and we all start talking about it, we forget about the last absurd thing he said and he never has to follow through with any of it.
Anyway...I'm so weak. Back to my troll-hole.
You know the old adage, "cheap, fast, good. Pick 2"? The American consumer wants all three.
The company producing the goods doesn't have to remain competitive, because in many cases there aren't many other good options. The number of places set up for manufacturing, with access to a port, and access to massive amounts of cheap labor are limited. There are likely very few options for purchasing raw materials and manufactured goods outside of the countries these tariffs are going on, without massive investment in infrastructure. This may very well happen, and in many cases I'm certain it will (like your Toyota example), but not everywhere. Like was said somewhere above, this approach needs to happen with scalpel, not a hammer.
American consumer's will still want things cheap/fast/good, so American importers and business owners will have to be the ones to figure out how to maintain competitive pricing in an economy that has increased competition for every dollar in the consumer's pocket. And there are less of those due to real property costs sky rocketing creating elevated rents (both residential and commercial). Businesses have to charge more, can pay less, and goods are going to cost more (while wage growth will stagnate, especially as unemployment begins climbing). Only the VERY large will be able to survive on thin margins due to their higher volumes and economies of scale. This is all very bad. For all of us. But, you saw Bezos there right? Right. Small businesses start to collapse, defaulting on SBA loans to the government, driving up unemployment and creating competition for jobs that will drive wages down even further relative to the CPI.
But all of this is happening as we just normalize the othering of America. "us" and "them" and very little we. It's a systematic and, in my opinion, intentional division sewn by this administration for a very deliberate purpose. We can't (or aren't willing to) listen to each other because we're so busy calling each other pathetic and stupid if "they" don't accept our absolutist position on the most insanely complex and nuanced issues that we likely have little more than surface level knowledge of anyway. It's like a pissing match between arm-chair-quarterbacks. And while we're all covered in our own piss, the super rich are busy setting the table for their feast.
Yes, because the techno-crats (thanks for that @Herzog ) can profit there because we have a more skilled work force and relatively inexpensive energy prices compared to other places with similarly skilled available labor. But I don't think Trump anticipates much besides his next golf outing or trip into the Miss America dressing room. I don't think he has an inner monologue. He just spouts off whatever random thing comes to his mind, surrounds himself with his yes men to fondle his ego and say the rich old billionaire equivalent of "ya boiiiiieeeee", and is then emboldened to double down on it. Embellish it with some hyperbole, take a shot at someone that his followers also hate to draw some A to B connection, and boom. Let's go to Panama. It works so beautifully because once he says the next ridiculous thing and we all start talking about it, we forget about the last absurd thing he said and he never has to follow through with any of it.
Anyway...I'm so weak. Back to my troll-hole.
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
The net effect on the economy is summed up in the first statement.
Tariffs raise the cost of imported goods, thus leaving consumers (us) the options of 1) pay a higher price than previously for the imported goods (also known as inflation) 2) buy the more expensive US produced product (also inflation) or 3) don't but it at all (a choice that if enough people makes results in a recession.)
None of those work well for the average American family.
I do agree that the pandemic showed us a lot of the issues with supply chains that relied too heavily on imports for products like microchips and that needed to be addressed, as the CHIPS Act did
This is such a fascinating topic to me. Did we have a thread about this here at one point? Blows my mind that some people don't have this
....recession.....which results in something....but what was it? Oh ya! Inflation lol.