1/4 eliptical or coilovers ??? <new at this help

[motorizedanarky]

Well like its says im new to linked suspension i have a mudding back ground from florida but have lived in co for 13 years and thought its time for a real crawler so i ask you guys whats your opinion ??? Thanx for input

 

[Greg]

If that's the debate, coilovers hands down. 1/4 Elliptical suspensions are so 1998.

 

[ChestonScout]

x2

 

[RockMonkey]

Coilovers are better in every way, except for cost. If you can, do coilovers.

 

[motorizedanarky]

Call me kooky but i kinda need to know why one is better than another they both have the flex im looking for but was wondering more what the pros and cons are

 

[Greg]

Call me kooky but i kinda need to know why one is better than another they both have the flex im looking for but was wondering more what the pros and cons are

Personally I don't think a 1/4 elliptical makes for a balanced suspension. I think it forces a vehicle to unload the rear suspension on sidehills. Why build a suspension that makes you flop?

I think for a vehicle to work well you need the front and rear suspension to work together, not have one end do 90% of the work. Also, massive flex is over rated... good for show, bad for real world wheelin.

What's your plan for the front suspension? Is that up for debate too?

 

[motorizedanarky]

Yes sir , it is still up for debate i know alot about cars 4x4s and such but rock crawling i know nothing so ive looked at more rock crawler and youtube vids to make me sick but the one thing i saw that i knew i needed was alot of flex atleast from what i saw and the limited crawling ive done so all help or words of wisdom would be helpful

 

[Greg]

Yes sir , it is still up for debate i know alot about cars 4x4s and such but rock crawling i know nothing so ive looked at more rock crawler and youtube vids to make me sick but the one thing i saw that i knew i needed was alot of flex atleast from what i saw and the limited crawling ive done so all help or words of wisdom would be helpful

Well, let's start at the top.... what vehicle are you building?

 

[motorizedanarky]

ok first ill tell ya what i want then tell if im wrong or whatever ok

first im starting with a mini pick up it gunna be mostly tube i chose a truck for titling purposes to start with im thinking 4 linking front and rear with 1" heims
then my debate was 1/4 eliptical or coil overs but i also saw long travel airshocks that hold the wieght of the truck so again a delima but im not building a wanna be truck its gunna be the real deal or why bother right , so axels are danna 60s front and rear im thinking 40s im useing a chevy 350fi engine i have a 203 and a 205 case so my choice there, front and rear steer full hydr and if this thing holds together ill be building a full tube with my rockwells i have so this is sort of an expieriment

 

[RockMonkey]

So, have you done any rock crawling yet at all, or just watched videos? Buy a truck and take it crawling. Stock. Then go from there.

 

[motorizedanarky]

So, have you done any rock crawling yet at all, or just watched videos? Buy a truck and take it crawling. Stock. Then go from there.

yes sir i have done a lot of crawling but i dont want to toot my horn i just need the next level i have a blazer k5 on 44s ive done wheeler trail with lot of shelfs there i also have a duce and a half built a caddy sevill on 44s with a fours speed i can do all my own fabbing
i tig and mig weld alum too i also do custom paint work so i can use what ever info you can offer and im not in my back yard in the dirt building this lol i own a shop deviant toys i just didnt wanna come on here sounding like i knew somthing just want some avid crawlers opions

 

[RockMonkey]

Okay then. Well, coilovers are lighter than 1/4 elliptical springs, have better ground clearance, are much easier to mount, are far more adjustable, are better shocks (unless you spend a lot of money on quality shocks, in which case coilovers would have been cheaper). They're also likely to be much more reliable, and easier to replace, since 1/4 elliptical springs are always custom made. They're pretty much better in every way, which is why you almost never see 1/4 elliptical springs any more.

 

[Greg]

Ok, so a Toyota mini truck frame on Dana 60's with 4 link front and rear, using either coilovers or air shocks, a 350 engine, probably an automatic trans and a 203/205 doubler.

You must have a decent budget, I'd bet that's easily a $20k build. What about tube work, are you going to do it yourself or have it done? Have you thought about a F-Toy chassis?

If you can afford the coilovers F & R, go for it. They take some tuning to get them to work, but once tuned in they'll work well.

If you're on more of a budget you could run leafs up front, then 4 link the rear with air shocks.
There's a few companies out there that make a weld on kit which will let you bolt a GM Dana 60 under the front of a Toyota using Toyota springs-

http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/new/detaproduct.php?id=184

Get a quality pair of springs like All-Pro or Marlins and they'll work well enough for rockcrawling.

 

[rockreligious]

use your truck, narrow the body, and bob and dovetail both ends. Four link both ends with coilovers trade your carb in for propane, set it all on your d60's and 40's mate your 203 and 205 into a doubler for gearing, lockers, runners and most importantly build a good cage and go smash and bash it.

 

[motorizedanarky]

ok cool so i can link the front and rear and get all the travel i need 16 to 18 in front and rear? then what about these air shocks ive seen say they hold 800lbs a corner ? 18 in travel they looked cool but are they any good ? all say "built for crawling " lol is that all just bs? and is my plan of attack with steering and axels about right? and im looking at coilovers now what brand do you sugest

 

[motorizedanarky]

Ok, so a Toyota mini truck frame on Dana 60's with 4 link front and rear, using either coilovers or air shocks, a 350 engine, probably an automatic trans and a 203/205 doubler.

You must have a decent budget, I'd bet that's easily a $20k build. What about tube work, are you going to do it yourself or have it done? Have you thought about a F-Toy chassis?

If you can afford the coilovers F & R, go for it. They take some tuning to get them to work, but once tuned in they'll work well.

If you're on more of a budget you could run leafs up front, then 4 link the rear with air shocks.
There's a few companies out there that make a weld on kit which will let you bolt a GM Dana 60 under the front of a Toyota using Toyota springs-

http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/new/detaproduct.php?id=184

Get a quality pair of springs like All-Pro or Marlins and they'll work well enough for rockcrawling.

ok first yes ita minitruck but the fron and rear of the frame will be tube and narrowed and yes a good cage will be there yes im doing all the work and yes ive made many cages like i said the only reason this isnt a full tube chass is i want to title this for short road use and i want the front linked too i have all the parts with the exeption of shocks that was my delima so if you guys are calling out coilover unanimously then who the hell am i to argue lol i just need to know whats the better shock for playing in the rocks and as i posted above i do own a small custom shop here in co lol so im not a back yard engine hanging from a tree guy i like nice stuff and to be done right and i thank you guys agian for steering me the right way

 

[Greg]

ok cool so i can link the front and rear and get all the travel i need 16 to 18 in front and rear? then what about these air shocks ive seen say they hold 800lbs a corner ? 18 in travel they looked cool but are they any good ? all say "built for crawling " lol is that all just bs? and is my plan of attack with steering and axels about right? and im looking at coilovers now what brand do you sugest

If you're going with coilovers, stick with 16's. (Air shocks too, IMO... 18" is a ton of travel and might be hard to fit.) It's difficult to find the right coils that are a softer rate for rockcrawling with 18" coilovers. They're used much more often for desert racing where sprinig rates start at 400 and 500 pounds, versus 150-250 pounds for rockcrawlers.

If you're seriously considering air shocks, I'd suggest ditching the 203/205 doubler in favor of an Atlas or Stak transfer case. You'll have almost as much money into the Doubler as the Atlas or Stak and 2x the weight. Air shocks are weight sensitive, so if you can keep it lighter you're better off.

As far as brand, Sway-a-Way is high quality. So are King... Foxes are good, FOA is pretty new on the scene and I hear they're less $$$ than most. Should be a good product too.

You're headed in the right direction with the axles, I wouldn't be too concerned with rear-steer... it's cool and all, but IMO stick with the KISS principle... Keep It Simple Stupid. Less parts to break and a cheaper build. Rear steer isn't a necessary item for hardcore wheelin. Full hydraulic is nice, but not the easiest on the road. Probably shouldn't be driven on the road at speed, but it does happen.

 

[Greg]

Here, check out this guys build. He started out with a F-Toy chassis on a Toyota mini-truck frame and is running a Chevy 350, auto and 203/205 doubler, 1 ton axles and air shocks (I think)-

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=47080

 

[Badbuggy]

I am the guy running the air shock rear and leafs in the front. I think airshocks are probably better suited to rock crawling only. They move differently than a coil over. They are easier to set up though. Mine is offroad use only, if I wanted to drive on the street, I probably would not run the air shocks. But for my use, the airshocks are dead on.

 

[motorizedanarky]

OK YOU GUYS ALL ROCK !!! WHERE DO YOU GUYS 4X4
some great trails here in breckenridge co i wann take this thing out to moab in the spring