2010 rules

[Craig S]

I personally don't see any advantage to a flat bed, other then maybe not hanging up on a piece of sheet metal.

Guess it doesn't matter anymore, I forgot I have to run legends anyway with the 38's. And little brother is going to 38's if he ever finishes the lift. Oh well.

I like the idea of a super stock class. but really thats what the legend class is. I agree that legends should be mostly full bodied, heavily modified rigs. But I think that those with tube chassis should be made to run in the unlimiteds. I personally don't think that a TJ grill is enough to keep you in the legends class.

Legend (Legend=Modified) class was started for full bodied, heavily modified rigs, but it got out of hand when when the frame rule was modified in 2004 by UROC. This essentially let any frame modifications go as long as they were rectangular frames. In about 2006 Werock let full tube frames in and it has been this way ever since. The Old School Street Stock class is essentially the old UROC Legends class (2002 vintage) with a couple of restrictions. There are some minor differences, but basically the same idea.

When the rules were opened up, it turned rock crawling into a money sport and the fun factor slowly drained out as the money came in. As the money came in the lower budget competitors left along with the fun and excitement that comes when a bunch of people get together to enjoy a rock crawling competition and have a good time. I always try to keep the rules so that anybody can compete at some level. I think it's better for everybody that way (sorry for getting on the soap box).

The F Toy class is based around a similar theme. I'm hoping a few of those guys will show up.

 

[BCGPER]

I too feel that a flat bed has an advantage over a stock, full bodied rig. Perhaps it's not a huge advantage, but I think it's enough to be a real benefit to anyone running one. I don't really have an issue with flat beds in Stock class as far as being more or less competitive goes, but the rules clearly state OEM sheet metal and I think the stock class should continue that requirement.

 

[BCGPER]

Craig, I'm just using Braden's as an example since I did get a chance to give it a pretty good looking over. Based on the rules as I understand them, his XJ would meet all the requirements of stock, with the exception of the linked rear suspension. Since an XJ is coil/leaf from the factory, and he is coil/coil, would that not bump him into the legends? I guess that same would hold true for something like a Jeep YJ. If a YJ were to install say the Black Diamond, or some other coil conversion kit, could they still run stock class? While he may not have any advantage over a lifted TJ, the way I understand the rule he is no longer eligible to run stock because of the "leaf from factory, leaf for competition" rule.

I guess what I'm asking in a nutshell is, are coils allowed to replace leafs?

I have looked at Bradens rig briefly. It's pretty nice. The suspension is trick and I don't know where his wheel base is or if it is street legal. Without looking it over closer and knowing those two things it's hard to make a call.

 

[Craig S]

Craig, I'm just using Braden's as an example since I did get a chance to give it a pretty good looking over. Based on the rules as I understand them, his XJ would meet all the requirements of stock, with the exception of the linked rear suspension. Since an XJ is coil/leaf from the factory, and he is coil/coil, would that not bump him into the legends? I guess that same would hold true for something like a Jeep YJ. If a YJ were to install say the Black Diamond, or some other coil conversion kit, could they still run stock class? While he may not have any advantage over a lifted TJ, the way I understand the rule he is no longer eligible to run stock because of the "leaf from factory, leaf for competition" rule.

I guess what I'm asking in a nutshell is, are coils allowed to replace leafs?

The way the rules are now, yes. A 10 point penalty would be given. See below:



1.3 Frame

1.3a Frames must be OEM, or direct OEM design aftermarket replacement. Frame re-enforcement allowed.

1.3b Frame rail modifications are not allowed, including cutting holes in the frame rails for custom brackets (except as allowed in 1.7 below). All bolt on or weld on custom brackets are permitted.

1.3c Frames cannot be drilled or punched to lighten them.


1.7 Suspension

1.7a Stock configuration suspension designs required. Example: leaf from factory, leaf for competition, coil/leaf from factory, coil/leaf for competition, etc.. Double shackle, air shocks or coil over systems are allowed with a 10 point penalty (+10).

1.7b No limitation on suspension attachment point measurements, but overall wheelbase MUST remain +- 3 inches of stock.

1.7c Manual or automatically controlled suspension systems that compensate ride height are not allowed. Front bumper mounted winches may be used as an adjustable limiting strap for the front axle. Rear axle winches are also allowed as an adjustable limiting strap.

1.7d Shackle reversal approved for leaf springs. Shackle hangers may use holes cut in the frame for leaf spring shackle

 

[RockMonkey]

I have looked at Bradens rig briefly. It's pretty nice. The suspension is trick and I don't know where his wheel base is or if it is street legal. Without looking it over closer and knowing those two things it's hard to make a call.

The wheelbase is 108. It will be street legal with tube fenders and flaps.

 

[Craig S]

I too feel that a flat bed has an advantage over a stock, full bodied rig. Perhaps it's not a huge advantage, but I think it's enough to be a real benefit to anyone running one. I don't really have an issue with flat beds in Stock class as far as being more or less competitive goes, but the rules clearly state OEM sheet metal and I think the stock class should continue that requirement.

Technically the flat beds are out. At the time we let the flat bed run I asked the other stock guys if they would let him run and they were OK with it. An exception woild have to be made for flat beds to be legal. See rules below:




1.4 Body

1.4a Bodies must be full width of OEM. Bodywork must extend a minimum of 24" past the Center of the rear axle. Full recognizable 4x4 bodies i.e. Jeep, Toyota, Ford, Chevrolet, I.H. etc., are required. Some trimming of body allowed such as fenders and corner panels. Fenders may be trimmed under the area that would be covered by a factory or aftermarket fender flair or a maximum of 3”.

1.4b Front fender wells may be omitted. All flooring and fire walls must be fully intact with the exception of the following:

1. The hump area directly over the transmission and transfer case which may be modified to accommodate aftermarket products or raising of stock components.

2. The floorboard may be cut or modified for clearance of rear shocks, fuel tanks and routing of fuel lines.
1.5 Radiator-Radiators must be in factory position and covered by the hood.

1.6 Seating-Vehicles must have two (2) seats side by side.

 

[TEAM FRED]

IMO Street class needs to be kept street and governed by a tight set of rules. Without these rules we will lose a class that anyone can come out and get a taste of compition.

I believe Braden would be very competitive in the legends class.

 

[BCGPER]

Ok, now we're on the same page. If a set of leafs can be replaced with coilovers with only a 10 point penalty, then I really think things are heading in a very bad direction. A quality set of coilovers and all the fab work involved will double (or more) the build costs of many of the stock class rigs.

Just my two cents, but I find it more enjoyable to see a stock class driver make it through a course with good driving and spotting skills than see a buggy breeze through the same one. I realize that comparison is exagerated, but I hope you see my point.

The way the rules are now, yes. A 10 point penalty would be given. See below:



1.3 Frame

1.3a Frames must be OEM, or direct OEM design aftermarket replacement. Frame re-enforcement allowed.

1.3b Frame rail modifications are not allowed, including cutting holes in the frame rails for custom brackets (except as allowed in 1.7 below). All bolt on or weld on custom brackets are permitted.

1.3c Frames cannot be drilled or punched to lighten them.


1.7 Suspension

1.7a Stock configuration suspension designs required. Example: leaf from factory, leaf for competition, coil/leaf from factory, coil/leaf for competition, etc.. Double shackle, air shocks or coil over systems are allowed with a 10 point penalty (+10).

1.7b No limitation on suspension attachment point measurements, but overall wheelbase MUST remain +- 3 inches of stock.

1.7c Manual or automatically controlled suspension systems that compensate ride height are not allowed. Front bumper mounted winches may be used as an adjustable limiting strap for the front axle. Rear axle winches are also allowed as an adjustable limiting strap.

1.7d Shackle reversal approved for leaf springs. Shackle hangers may use holes cut in the frame for leaf spring shackle

 

[greenjeep]

I agree that legends should be mostly full bodied, heavily modified rigs. But I think that those with tube chassis should be made to run in the unlimiteds. I personally don't think that a TJ grill is enough to keep you in the legends class.

I agree. Competing against buggies with skins made for quite a challenge last year.

 

[SUPERFLY]

Stock class should remain un changed no flatbeds, no four link(conversions), no streched wheel base, that's what keeps it "old school" if anything I'd say we should go back and cap off the tire size to 35s (even though I just got a set of 37s...)

 

[maveric]

So would mostly stock toyota be illegal in the street stock class? Other than gears, lockers, 35's, and a mild lift, the only other mods are an exo, minor fender trimming, and the flat bed. I don't see ANY advantage to the flat bed other than visibility and not crunching sheet metal. But on the flip side, concerning RockMonkeys comment, the difference in weight on a toyota bed, compared to the flat bed is minimal. The 100# I lost by removing the bed has affected the way the suspension flexes. And I gained most of the weight back with the exo.

I'm just wondering, cuz I am thinking about running the street stock class with this rig.

 

[maveric]

Frame question for street stock

On another note... The rules state:
[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Bold]

1.3a​

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[/FONT]​

[/FONT]Frames must be OEM, or direct OEM design aftermarket replacement. Frame re-enforcement allowed.​

[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT,Bold]

1.3b​

​

[/FONT]​

[/FONT]Frame rail modifications are not allowed, including cutting holes in the frame rails for custom brackets (except as allowed​

in 1.7 below). All bolt on or weld on custom brackets are permitted.

I am also considering running my old wheeler in the stock class, but the frame has been changed. The body is a 46 Flatty, but it is on a newer boxed rectangle frame. The suspension is still leafs front and rear, and it's running 33's (might put the 35's from the above vehicle instead). The only body mods are the rear wheelwells are comp cut because the wheelbase has been extended about 3". Because the frame is not OEM (from the Willy's), would this disqualify the vehicle from this class?

Also, can a team run 2 different classes? ie, ftoy and stock with 2 seperate vehicles, 2 seperate entry fees?

 

[Corban_White]

I don't know about the frame, but I believe the comp cut would bump you out of the stock class.

 

[Craig S]

The wheelbase is 108. It will be street legal with tube fenders and flaps.

What is the stock wheel base?

 

[I Lean]

What is the stock wheel base?

100" or 101". Ish.

 

[Craig S]

100" or 101". Ish.

I was thinking 102". That bumps Braden to Legend (102 +3 = 105 max).

 

[Craig S]

I know it's probably too late now, but maybe most of these issues could be taken care of by having something like a "superstock" class? That might give something like Braden's XJ a place to fit in, and still allow the lesser built vehicles to be competitive amung similar rigs. It might also be a good place to stick the rigs that have previously had to run the legends class just because they're running a 38" tire, or a flatbed, or some other minor issue.

Also, if you could clarify for me because I'm easily confused. Braden would be stuck running the legend class because an XJ should have rear leafs, but his front coilovers would be fine for stock class, correct?

Wheel base kicked him to Legend.

 

[Craig S]

Maveric quote:
I am also considering running my old wheeler in the stock class, but the frame has been changed. The body is a 46 Flatty, but it is on a newer boxed rectangle frame. The suspension is still leafs front and rear, and it's running 33's (might put the 35's from the above vehicle instead). The only body mods are the rear wheelwells are comp cut because the wheelbase has been extended about 3". Because the frame is not OEM (from the Willy's), would this disqualify the vehicle from this class?

The frame change would keep you out of stock with the flat fender. I don't know where the bed issue will end up. Right now, the rules don't allow it in stock. One rig ran in stock with the other drivers consent with a flat bed in 2009. It doesn't sound like that will happen again from the comments on this thread. Why don't you just run your F Toy?

 

[ChestonScout]

Ive been told the Scout is to tall and wide to compete.


Are you looking for volunteers again this year?

If I start planning on it now I should be able to make it

 

[EB101]

Ive been told the Scout is to tall and wide to compete.


Are you looking for volunteers again this year?

If I start planning on it now I should be able to make it

Funny, I heard they aren't tough enough! JK of course, we'll get you and 4554x4 out in his blazer and see what real trucks can do. I imagine double wide and long will bump you out of the stock class too though.

-Steve