22R Rebuild - Power

[84 4Runner]

22R Rebuild - Power?

What are your opinions on the best option(s) for gaining power with the 22R when doing a rebuild? Options I am considering include 22R block with a 20R head, or 22R with LC Engineering's pro-set pistons (for 9.7:1 compression), or 22R bored .030 with 22R head shaved.

Please let me know your experiences (both good and bad) and any writeups that might help me. Thanks!

 

[Greg]

I believe that power gains are made in the Cyl. Head, so any improvment you make there will be very beneficial.

Tim @ DOA will tell you most the gains on 22R/RE's come from the Bowl Work (area below the valve seat,) rather than the porting/polishing of the intake/exhaust runners.

Get the Dremel out!

 

[84 4Runner]

I have heard that before, but have never been sure what the best combination of options are. I would LOVE to purchase a complete 22R from DOA or LC Engineering, but as a starving college student, that's a little out of my budget.

Currently I'm running a worn out 22R with a rebuilt head with a Schneider cam in it. The cam gave me some more power, but I'm hoping to get a little more when I do the rebuild.

Any suggestions on a good combination of what I have mentioned above or anything I missed? I'm thinking of a 22R with the LC Engineering 9.7:1 compression pistons with a shaved 22R head (any specs?) and a cam from either DOA or LC Engineering. Any thoughts?

 

[trpl xj]

Don't do the the 22r block with the 20r head its a big waste of time and money. I did it on mine a gained nothing, The timing chain is a major PITA to put on. I had to shave down the guides to get enough slack in the chain to put the gear on the end of the cam.

Greg is right the horse power is in the head not so much the bottom end, yes there is power gains by balancing the motor but there are better gains in head work. If your looking for some real performance gains then save the $$ and do a motor swap. The vortec 4.3 is your best bet. The chev 350 just requires to many mods the get it to work right. Almost forgot you can do a ford 5.0 swap as well but then you have to deal with Ford stuff. The 5.0 is a better fit than the 350 mainly because of the distrubitor location. and the 5.0 block is a little smaller. Thats my .02

 

[Greg]

I think you have a good plan on a budget.

Whats the factory compression ratio on a 22R/RE? Do you currently have a Header and decent exhaust? The higher Compression, 20R head, Cam, and a little headwork all together should result in a pretty healthy 4 Cyl. Make sure it breathes good, (K&N, Exhaust, etc...) and you'll be good to go, on the cheap!

 

[84 4Runner]

Thanks for the info trpl xj. That's exactly the kind of things I need to hear: personal experience on the different options I have.

I am not really interested in doing a V6 or V8 swap right now. I'm not looking for a real powerhouse, just a little extra something to get my 4Runner up hills and other such things. Right now I enjoy the simplicity of the 22R and trust it's reliability (usually).

Thanks for the replies. Keep 'em coming!!

 

[trpl xj]

Another thing you could do is add a Weber carb. to it. I noticed a huge difference in performace when I installed one on mine. Also like Greg said, a good header, cam, and free flowing exhaust system will probally give you the best bang for your buck. The Webers are kinda pricey but worth it in my opinion the throttle response and performance was a night and day difference between the stock carb and weber.

 

[84 4Runner]

I'm not sure the exact specs on the factory compression ratio on a 22R, but I believe it's somewhere near 8.3:1.

My concerns with doing the 20R head are the greatly increased compression ratio (10:1?) may require me to run high octane fuel ($$!!) and I have heard the durability of the 20R heads aren't as good as the 22R heads. Does anyone know?

How is the reliability on the Weber carb? I've heard many positives and negatives.

 

[Skyetone]

well........ where to start....
I had (still have as parts ) a 22r with a doa head kit. Oversized valves, the head is ported and tims cam kit instaled when I rebuilt my 22r with stock everything. I loved it. I could mud up to 6k and the motor was fine. Sucked in water one trip and the motor died , sligtly warped one valve that I got resurfased and it is in fine shape.
The 20r head is a decked head in comparison to the 22r. In otherwards if you put them together the clearance between the botom of the head and the valves is smaller in the 20r. But the valves are smaller too. Hensforth you gain like 10% compression (don't quote me on the #s) but cannot pass the exaust out fast enough to make alot of difference.
If you run a high compression piston with stock cam, valves, and exaust you are wasting the $$$. if you get a new cam and a valve job then your like 300$ away from a WHOLE NEW DOA HEAD. Pre warped/cracked/worn out.
I will pimp up DOA, I miss the crap outa my head and can't wait to put it back on a motor that is deserving.
It may sting to spend the what 700$ on doa's head kit but it is so worth it. Even just his cam is worth it but talk to him, he is a cool guy.
Weber, it is a cleaner bowl to avoid flooding. I am not sure if the jets are bigger or smaller than stock. I personally rebuilt my stock carb for emisions reasons. Go to a dealer (LHM toyota) go get you a 100 jet or a 98 jet and stick it in where the 14mm bolt is in front of the carb. It's about a doller and it helps a small noticable amount, plus it helps with emisions.
I'll statr to follow this thread, get cuiser outfitters to come and debate all this with me and you will have more than enough info.

 

[trpl xj]

Personally I think the Weber kicks a$$ over the stock carb, but if you do have to deal with emisions then mabey the stock carb is better. But mine passed with the Weber, and header and not cat. We hooked it up to the machine one day at the shop just for the hell of it. ( I live in Box Elder county no IM) The Webers are jetted to run a sea level so you have to go to smaller jets but its no big deal if I remember right they use the same jets as the Edelbroke carbs. And there real easy to change. My advice to you would be get the head and valves done, get a little bit bigger cam, a Weber, and a good quality header. I think you will gain the most from this combo. It is possible to get big HP out of a 22r but not much torque.

 

[Skyetone]

marlin suplies torque
Why do you think the weber is better, case examples please.

 

[trpl xj]

Originally posted by Skyetone
marlin suplies torque
Why do you think the weber is better, case examples please.

examples.......ok

The Weber has about 1000 x's better throttle reponse, doesn't seam to flood as easily at extreme angles, no I/M BS, comes with a open element K&N flitler, easier to work on, rebuild kits are cheap.

I gain more power and performance by adding the Weber, than I did with the head and cam work. I did the 20R head on the 22R block and it was a waste like you said the valves are too small.

Personaly the only thing I would trade mine for is a 4.3 or Toyota EFI, other than that I'm sold on the Weber. If you have ever drove a Toy with a Weber on it you would know why I praise them so much.

 

[84 4Runner]

First of all, what is the best way to contact Tim @ DOA if I want to get his opinion and ask him a few questions?

So between the 20R head and the 22R head, it sounds like the 22R head is preferable with some modification? What modifications would you recommend (valves, shaving, decking, cam, etc.)? And that a complete head from DOA is best (provided I can afford it)?

Assuming I stick with the 22R block, what would you recommend? Do the 9.7:1 pistons sound good, or should I bore it out (.030 or .040?) and just put larger pistons in?

I do intend to re-do my exhaust. I had a nice exhaust done but that was almost completely destroyed when my driveline came off. What do you recommend (header, size, etc.)?

Next, what intake and carb would you recommend? Weber vs. Toyota: what are your opinions and why?

Keep in mind: I want this to be emissions legal (Utah) and I do have a somewhat limited amount of $$. Thanks for all the replies. Keep 'em coming!!

 

[Skyetone]

look up DOA racing
offinhouser? is the only intake people I know for the 22r.
I run a 2.25 inch exaust with the v-6 cat.
You can get most machine shops to do the same work on your head that tim can do but you run an old head that will be more prone to cracking.
Oh and BTW my stock block with doa head had issues with immisions and then the carb deal I am sixes cuz I have never ran weber. Maybee I'll try it someday

 

[DToy]

If you want a great rebuild on a motor talk to Strasburg Machine in Lindon, UT. They rebuilt my 22-RE and it runs great! They bored it .050, balanced and blueprinted, new aftermarket cam, timing set, oil pump, etc., etc. for $1400.00, and that included $100 for a new head since my old one was cracked. The thing runs awesome! I push 37's with 5.29 gears on my 'Runner and I noticed a huge gain in power. I drive 100 miles a day in it and I can cruise up almost any hill at 65-70 mph no problem.

Just my $.02 if you're looking for a rebuild

 

[84 4Runner]

DToy: Do you happen to have the phone number for Strasburg Machine? Also, how are they about letting you bring your own parts in and then having them machine the block and put in pistons and such?

How much is it best to bore out the 22R? I've heard that anything more than .040 causes overheating problems.

Also, what cams are you running? I like my Shneider, but I've also heard promising things about those from DOA, LC Engineering, and TRD.

 

[DToy]

Their phone number is (801) 785-2753. I would talk to Lindsey. They are really easy to work with, I'm sure that they would let you provide whatever parts you wanted and would just do the machine work. I had them assemble my short block and re-do the head and then I put the head, timing, etc. on it myself.

I've never heard that about boring over .040, mine hasn't had any overheating problems after 7,000 miles so far.

My cam is a Crower. I really like it alot. It has alot more low and mid-range power and torque-really noticable off-road. They seem to build alot of 22R's, so they know how to do a good job, and they're usually pretty quick-they had mine done in less than a week.