4x4 for Wilderness?

[UtahFire]

I found this link on SUWA's web site. It's is a group who claims they are 4x4 for wilderness group. I think it may be another SUWA propaganda stunt.

http://www.gordonswenson.com/4w4w/

 

[Spork]

Not a single picture with any vehicles on the site...

 

[shortstraw8]

It sound reasonable, but who knows? I do like what they have to say in the ethics part though that the way every one should treat trails.

 

[TimB]

Other than supporting the 9 million acre wilderness proposal - they don't seem too crazy. To support that you have to either be (A) not familiar with the area in the proposed wilderness, or (B) a spy group thats really SUWA Nazi's in disguise.

Here's the quote from the site:

"4 Wheelers 4 Wilderness supports the grassroots citizens' proposal to designate approximately 9 million acres of wilderness on lands in Utah administered by the Bureau of Land Management. "

 

[Spork]

It sound reasonable, but who knows? I do like what they have to say in the ethics part though that the way every one should treat trails.

It doesn't say anything that I haven't heard on this site. It doesn't say anything about his feelings about SUWA trying to shut down trails, It doesn't say much at all to tell you the truth.
[adjusts tinfoil hat]maybe it's a ploy by SUWA to gain money from the casual mom and pop take the kids on a ride on a backroad group.

 

[Todd Adams]

These are SUWA members that own SUV’s. They support the Red Rock Wilderness Bill and what they state on the web site is not the truth.

“Under the citizens' wilderness proposal, a significant vehicle-route network, consisting of a large majority of the routes which receive substantial use, will be left open. Over half of the citizens' wilderness proposal is within 1 mile of a vehicle route, and over 80% of the proposal is within 2 miles of a vehicle route. The proposal would leave 60% of BLM-managed public lands in Utah as non-wilderness. 95% of the trails used for the Moab Jeep Safari would be left open. The routes which would be closed by the proposal are typically seldom- or never-used routes left over from the uranium exploration days.”

The truth is that this bill would permanently close closer to 40% of our EJS trails. These include Prittchett Canyon, Behind the Rocks, Moab Rim, Hey Joe Canyon, Steel Bender, Dome Plateau, Gold Bar Rim, Strike Ravine not to mention all the back county roads that are now open in 40% of all the BLM lands in Utah.
Now think about what lands they want to make into wilderness. The same that we want to keep open and explore on existing trails. The 60% that would be left open are not the areas that include the vistas I want to experience.
Believe me that these 7 individuals would be involved with the mainstream 4x4 organizations in Utah if not for the fact they are just SUWA people trying to spread miss information.
Todd

 

[TimB]

Yeah, my snake detector is going off. Wilderness groups have long been using the "hey we're just like you, really" tactic to lull us to sleep.

 

[UtahFire]

I was finally able to get a detailed EIS map of the America's Redrock Wilderness proposal. You can actually download all the information from the www.utah.gov web site (it is not easy to put it all together). The areas closed by this "wilderness" proposal is amazing. Much of the area around Moab is effected. Almost the entire San Rafael Swell would be closed. Much of the lands around Zions National park would also be closed.

Also, the 60% of BLM that SUWA says would not be included as wilderness, does not mean it would be available for motorized use. 10 mile wash and factory butte are perfect examples. These areas are part of the 60% of the non-wilderness lands that SUWA wants closed down.

 

[ace]

Here's what they are about. From links page:

I did a google search on Gordon Swenson. He is a vocal member of the Utah Siera Club and Suwa who apparantly is active in fighting rs2477 claims. No surprise, right?

 

[UtahFire]

As suspected then, Gordon Swenson is a wolf in sheeps clothing. This is a typical tactic you would expect from SUWA. They put someone out there that pretends to be "one of us" to bait those that don't follow these issues in to thinking everything will be ok.

 

[ace]

Board:

Brad Weaver, bdweave@xmission.com
Brad Yates, bnyslc@earthlink.net
Jim Catlin, wup@xmission.com
Wayne Hoskisson, whoskisson@aol.com
Michael Scialdone, scial@hotmail.com
John Veranth, John.Veranth@m.cc.utah.edu
Gordon Swenson, gjswen@aol.com

Look these people up. This is a who's who list of greenie left wing political activism.

 

[UtahFire]

No wonder they don't have any pictures of their rigs out on the trails. I don't think their 1987 subarus plastered with bumper stickers would cut it.

 

[shortstraw8]

This is what I was saying I like. And I agree spork everything plus more has been said on this site.


Dealing with obstacles

Stay on the route. If you come to a section which isn't passable, you have three choices:
If you have a shovel and a winch with a tree strap, use them to get across the obstacle on the existing track.
Turn around and find a different track to drive.
Park it and walk.
Using a winch without a tree strap is not ethical. Driving a new route around the obstacle is not ethical. Making new routes leads to erosion and an ever-increasing proliferation of widening braided multitracks.

Is there some way to get this site shut down, or have him put up the truth about the wilderness proposal at least?

 

[TimB]

I too agree with the "Dealing with obstacles" part. Unfortunately this is the same tactic cults use - include just enough truth so they seem valid. Then they sneak the monkey blood drinking part in later.

 

[Spork]

I too agree with the "Dealing with obstacles" part. Unfortunately this is the same tactic cults use - include just enough truth so they seem valid. Then they sneak the monkey blood drinking part in later.

Now monkeylicious!

 

[Houndoc]

Is there some way to get this site shut down, or have him put up the truth about the wilderness proposal at least?

Don't see any point in trying to shut them down. Opinions are opinions, and the section on ethics should be linked into all the R.S/Con threads.

As for the idea, must admit that their opening statement is pretty good. But obviously I disagree with 9million wilderness acres.

As for "truth" they do let an important cat out of the bag. By stating that some roads/trails would have to be closed, they admit the proposals include areas with roads, which according to the wilderness act, cannot be designated wilderness.

I'll shoot an e-mail to Brad Weaver, inviting him to jump on to RME and introduce his group. See what we can learn straight from the horses mouth.

 

[UtahFire]

I sent Brad Weaver an email asking him what trails he "wheeled" and what kinds of rigs they drove. Here is part of his repy:

"Since we're opposed to large group "rides" we've never organized one and don't anticipate doing so. So to answer your question; I don't know, but I suspect there are no routes any of us run on a regular basis other than the paved routes we would use to travel to various regions of the state.
I personally like to explore. I travel with friends in parties of 2 or 3 vehicles. I've been all over Utah over the past 25 years. I enjoy going places I've never been on routes that constitute proposed wilderness boundaries or Cherry Stems."

Respectfully,
Brad Weaver
4W4W

 

[Bone Down]

I sent Brad Weaver an email asking him what trails he "wheeled" and what kinds of rigs they drove. Here is part of his repy:

"Since we're opposed to large group "rides" we've never organized one and don't anticipate doing so. So to answer your question; I don't know, but I suspect there are no routes any of us run on a regular basis other than the paved routes we would use to travel to various regions of the state.
I personally like to explore. I travel with friends in parties of 2 or 3 vehicles. I've been all over Utah over the past 25 years. I enjoy going places I've never been on routes that constitute proposed wilderness boundaries or Cherry Stems."

Respectfully,
Brad Weaver
4W4W

I suspect there are no routes any of us run on a regular basis other than the paved routes we would use to travel to various regions of the state.


How PC is that ????

 

[Houndoc]

Surprising that he would even respond, but at least the true colors of his being a "wheeler" is out in the open.

They need to change the mane from "four wheelers for wilderness" to "for wilderness".

 

[Todd Adams]

I sent Brad Weaver an email asking him what trails he "wheeled" and what kinds of rigs they drove. Here is part of his repy:

"Since we're opposed to large group "rides" we've never organized one and don't anticipate doing so. So to answer your question; I don't know, but I suspect there are no routes any of us run on a regular basis other than the paved routes we would use to travel to various regions of the state.
I personally like to explore. I travel with friends in parties of 2 or 3 vehicles. I've been all over Utah over the past 25 years. I enjoy going places I've never been on routes that constitute proposed wilderness boundaries or Cherry Stems."

Respectfully,
Brad Weaver
4W4W

How sad, letting your convictions get in the way of enjoying what this beautiful state has to offer. The cherry stemmed and proposed wilderness areas are in the best part or our state and legal to drive on. This is why our sides will never come to an agreement of how best to protect the land.
Todd