Any other ultralight backpackers on RME?

[mesha]

I have been looking at ways to go even lighter and it is getting expensive. I am hitting about 22 dollars an ounce average now. I can always leave stuff home, which is free, but I have my set up pretty dialed in now.

One thing I have noticed is the more "fun" the item is to buy the more it costs :-/ Shaving ounces with a tent right now costs me 75 bucks an ounce. Shaving weight with a towel change is 50 cents an ounce. My recent sleeping bag purchase cost me 100 bucks an ounce. It is getting silly at this point. I think I will start buying according to cost per ounce saved.

I know, I know, stop being lame and be happy with what I have. NO

 

[DAA]

I just ordered an Esbit stove to try on short, solo type trips. If I like it well enough, it will be some pretty cheap per oz. savings over my current JetBoil rig.

That really looks like the last cheap weight I'm going to save though. Like you said, I can just leave stuff home, but I'm pretty set in my ways as far as wanting to have what I want to have.

I'll look into a new shelter next year, but it's going to be some pretty expensive weight saving if I do anything. My current shelter is 32 oz. all in. The alternatives I'm looking at are only going to be 8-10 oz. lighter, at a cost of about $575 (minus whatever I can sell my current tent for). Just say I can get $150 for my current tent and go for the 10 oz. lighter candidate. That puts those 10 oz. at $42.50 per!!! I may decide not to go there...

Then maybe, maybe, another year after that, I might investigate shaving another 8 oz. off my pack, but my experiences so far have me leaning towards not trying to save too much weight there - I'm finding my heavier pack can actually be more comfortable a lot of the time.

But, yeah, I think I'm pretty close to done, as far as getting any lighter. And I'm not anywhere even close to "ultra light". I'm just barely edging out of "heavy hauler" territory into the "light weight" zone. But, I shave weight with expensive lightweight gear to make the whole experience more enjoyable, not just for the sake of getting to any specific total weight or fitting into any category.

- DAA

 

[Unimog]

Luckily the research is pretty cheap entertainment. It only starts costing lots when I pull the trigger.

 

[mesha]

I just ordered an Esbit stove to try on short, solo type trips. If I like it well enough, it will be some pretty cheap per oz. savings over my current JetBoil rig.

That really looks like the last cheap weight I'm going to save though. Like you said, I can just leave stuff home, but I'm pretty set in my ways as far as wanting to have what I want to have.

I'll look into a new shelter next year, but it's going to be some pretty expensive weight saving if I do anything. My current shelter is 32 oz. all in. The alternatives I'm looking at are only going to be 8-10 oz. lighter, at a cost of about $575 (minus whatever I can sell my current tent for). Just say I can get $150 for my current tent and go for the 10 oz. lighter candidate. That puts those 10 oz. at $42.50 per!!! I may decide not to go there...

Then maybe, maybe, another year after that, I might investigate shaving another 8 oz. off my pack, but my experiences so far have me leaning towards not trying to save too much weight there - I'm finding my heavier pack can actually be more comfortable a lot of the time.

But, yeah, I think I'm pretty close to done, as far as getting any lighter. And I'm not anywhere even close to "ultra light". I'm just barely edging out of "heavy hauler" territory into the "light weight" zone. But, I shave weight with expensive lightweight gear to make the whole experience more enjoyable, not just for the sake of getting to any specific total weight or fitting into any category.

- DAA

I really like the solid fuel stoves. I use a "gram cracker" and it works pretty well. I also like my alcohol stove. Lately I have been going stove less which has been awesome during the summer. Not so much during the winter.

I think you are right to not try to fit into any category or shoot for a specific weight. For me, it is about having the comforts I want while being comfortable on the walk. For my wife, on the other hand, it is about being as light as possible on the walk. She doesn't care about comfort at camp. I think to try to do it the way that works for someone else is folly, but using what works for others to help you figure out what works for you is great.

Everyone can benefit from lightening their pack, but not everyone will enjoy the game of shaving every ounce they can as much as me. It is like any hobby, everyone has a different level that makes them happy. Just because someones pack is a few pounds lighter than someone else's does not dictate the experience they are having is better. Finding what works for the individual and getting outside is what makes the hobby worth it.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Well said Davy. I appreciate the experience of all you guys, it has really helped me lighten my pack and enjoy backpacking a lot more.

 

[DAA]

I really like the solid fuel stoves. I use a "gram cracker" and it works pretty well.

Davy, do you have a protocol for containing the stink of the solid fuel? I got my Esbit stove and fuel tablets. Have not had a chance to do anything with it yet, but holy crap, the smell of the fuel tabs would knock a buzzard off a crap wagon! And I haven't even broken the seal on it yet. Had to put the unopened box inside and Opsack just to keep it in the house - the unopened box was totally stinking up a 600 sq. ft. room.

- DAA

 

[mesha]

Davy, do you have a protocol for containing the stink of the solid fuel? I got my Esbit stove and fuel tablets. Have not had a chance to do anything with it yet, but holy crap, the smell of the fuel tabs would knock a buzzard off a crap wagon! And I haven't even broken the seal on it yet. Had to put the unopened box inside and Opsack just to keep it in the house - the unopened box was totally stinking up a 600 sq. ft. room.

- DAA

What fuel tabs are you using? I have found the esbit tabs to be the second stinkiest of the bunch.

 

[DAA]

They are Esbit brand. Have not even broken the seal on them yet. But have to keep them in the Opsak or they seriously do make my entire reloading room smell like rotten dead fish.

I got the Esbit Wing stove. Still have not played with it at all. But just looking at it, I can see that any windscreen I come up with for it is going to be kind of a kluge. But can also see, a windscreen is going to be mandatory. Kind of wish I'd have gone the Caldera/Gram Cracker route instead. But, this was a lot cheaper and I wanted to see how I'd get along with the whole concept without spending too much.

I can see myself getting some use out of it, stink and all. Because it IS way lightweight! Stove, pot, six fuel tabs, opsack, estimate maybe 2 oz. for a windscreen and it should end up around 11 oz. total. Vs. 17 oz. for my Jetboil setup including a full 100 gr. fuel cannister.

I do not see it replacing my Jetboil on trips with my Son though. Between having to add another 1 or 1.5 oz. of fuel, and the really long boil times (compared toe JetBoil) doing hot drinks and cooking for two multiple times per day, the Jetboil will still rule that scene.

- DAA

 

[mesha]

They are Esbit brand. Have not even broken the seal on them yet. But have to keep them in the Opsak or they seriously do make my entire reloading room smell like rotten dead fish.

I got the Esbit Wing stove. Still have not played with it at all. But just looking at it, I can see that any windscreen I come up with for it is going to be kind of a kluge. But can also see, a windscreen is going to be mandatory. Kind of wish I'd have gone the Caldera/Gram Cracker route instead. But, this was a lot cheaper and I wanted to see how I'd get along with the whole concept without spending too much.

I can see myself getting some use out of it, stink and all. Because it IS way lightweight! Stove, pot, six fuel tabs, opsack, estimate maybe 2 oz. for a windscreen and it should end up around 11 oz. total. Vs. 17 oz. for my Jetboil setup including a full 100 gr. fuel cannister.

I do not see it replacing my Jetboil on trips with my Son though. Between having to add another 1 or 1.5 oz. of fuel, and the really long boil times (compared toe JetBoil) doing hot drinks and cooking for two multiple times per day, the Jetboil will still rule that scene.

- DAA

I hear you on the stink. They made the whole stove section smell like rotten fish at the outdoor shop I worked at.

I like the FireLite brand of solid fuel tablets. They are less stinky than the esbit tabs. The Military trioxide and hex amine tablet are also less smelly. They come in foil packets and the smell is bill until you open them. Another option is the light my fire solid fuel emergency fire starters. They work well and are zero stinky.

I made my own gram cracker out of some titanium foil. I have some left over the next time you are down my way.

Maybe I will make a couple.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Moving my zpacks tent thoughts here. This isn't meant to be an anti-zpacks post, I like their gear. I just wanted to post the issue I had with my tent. The netting split on the first or second time camping with it:

Steve, is it possible you pitched the tent to tall? making the netting stretch farther than it should have? I don't remember what it looked like pitched. I am sure you didn't just a thought.

It definitely could have been user error, but I the first night I pitched it I had it to the exact height (48") he recommended. If anything, I pitched it looser than recommended, due to the frozen ground, and the mesh wasn't stretched at all. I made sure of this, because it worried me from the get-go.

The second time I pitched it, same story, but i was able to pitch it tighter. If anything, the mesh was pulling horizontally rather than vertically. This leads me to believe that I didn't pitch it too tall, but too wide (which is weird because you want it taught, but how wide is too wide?).

I don't feel like this tent will be worn out after a year or two, it's made of good materials and I think it'll last a long time. I just think the design needs a way to prevent the mesh from over-stretching between the bathtub and the roof. The HMG pitches a lot more taught, the cuben is much thicker, and the stitching is beefier. They also use shock cords between netting and the roof to prevent it from being torn (like above). But all this comes at the expense of weight, a full 10 oz more, so they can't be compared weight wise. I do, however, expect my HMG to last at least twice as long as my zpacks shelter.

Apart from the weak mesh corners, I prefer the zpacks design. It's quick to set up, and super light. It just needs some corner reinforcements and it should be perfect.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I'm a dufus and sometimes I'm quite absent-minded. However, I do take excellent care of my gear and I'm very careful with it. I've watched the youtube setup video 5+ times, and it makes sense to me, and that's how I pitch the tent. When climbing inside, I'm very careful, and I'm especially careful not to put things near the corners of this tent. The weird part is that this corner seems stretched tighter than the other 3. I'll send it back to Joe and we'll see what he says. He's been quick to communicate, and has been very apologetic and is going to sew the tear shut for me.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Even in this pic on their website, you can see how taught the mesh is in the corners:

The tent is an awesome design, I just think the corners need something to keep them from getting too tight and straining the mesh. Something like this:

 

[mesha]

Those pictures do look like the mesh is pretty strained. I wonder if when they changed from the full mesh bottom to the cuban fiber bottom if they forgot to take into account the mesh stretches more than the cuban. The initial all mesh design would have had more overall stretch than the current version. Maybe a few extra inches of mesh are need on the sides now to make up for the cuban bottom not stretching. hmmm

 

[sixstringsteve]

Yeah, I think a few extra inches wider would help. If it had some shock "limit" cords on each corner, that'd keep the mesh from ever tearing.

Even if there were another inch or two of mesh, the bathtub could still end up shifting and put undue stress on the mesh. I'm thinking a little shock cord, or small 1" cuben strip on each corner would do the trick.

 

[sixstringsteve]

For what it's worth, I'd order the slightly heavier .72oz cuben if I could do it again. I don't think this cuben is going to wear out, but I think it's worth 1.5 oz to have the extra durability.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Update on the zpacks duplex. I'm upgrading my duplex to a new one, only with the beefier cuben fiber (0.72 oz) this time. It adds 1.5 oz, but it give me peace of mind, and gives me a new tent that isn't ripped. I'm going to be doing a lot of experimenting with pitching the guylines at different lengths and angles to make sure the corners aren't nearly as tight. I'm also going to reinforce my corners with cuben tape to prevent them from ever over-extending.

I'm curious if Joe will make any design changes to the model in the future. Lesson learned: don't buy brand new models that haven't been field tested yet. That being said, the design of this tent is awesome. I think I could improve it a bit, but I never could have come up with a design as good as this.

 

[DAA]

Steve, I was going to ask you what your take is on all the cuben floor leaks you hear about, but I guess since you are going with one, you've decided it's not really worth worrying about. Maybe the .72, or just newer batches of cuben will solve it. At the .72 to 1 oz range in the cuben, there wouldn't be much of a weight penalty to just using silnylon for the floor instead though.

By the time I consider a new shelter in another year, I'm hoping the sil floor is an option.

- DAA

 

[Gravy]

At the rate you guys are spending an ounce... you could pay a personal trainer to help you get in better shape to carry the heavier stuff and come out ahead.

Or just skip the cheeseburgers and take a big dump before you go hiking.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Steve, I was going to ask you what your take is on all the cuben floor leaks you hear about, but I guess since you are going with one, you've decided it's not really worth worrying about. Maybe the .72, or just newer batches of cuben will solve it. At the .72 to 1 oz range in the cuben, there wouldn't be much of a weight penalty to just using silnylon for the floor instead though.
- DAA

I haven't heard about cuben floors leaking before, that's news to me. I haven't had my tents for very long, so I can't comment on long-term durability, but short-term, my HMG has proven to be VERY waterproof. It's been in some good rain storms, and I've never had water on the inside of the floor.

Just for clarification, I only upgraded the roof of my zpacks duplex. The floor on the zpacks is 1 oz. The floor on my HMG is 1.14 oz. The main reason I love cuben is that it doesn't absorb water, it stays taught all night, and it's super strong. I'm sure there are other ways to stay dry for lightweight though.

 

[DAA]

I haven't heard about cuben floors leaking before, that's news to me.

I've been following developments pretty close for the past couple of years. I don't think there are more than a handful of people anywhere that actually have very many nights on a cuben shelter. So the sample size is tiny. And I've noticed that people don't really like to talk about it, either. But some of the guys that were really talking up the cuben shelters one and two years ago, seem to be kind of quietly not so thrilled with them anymore - the floors, specifically, developing lots of pinhole leaks.

I dunno... Prollly nothing to worry about. There are so many different types of cuben material. And no telling what or how much use is involved in getting the pin hole leaks. But right now, I'm leaning away from a cuben floor.

- DAA