Anyone know about travel trailer electrical systems?

[DAA]

So... After years of trying to wear me down, my Wife and Daughter finally succeeded, and against my better judgement, I bought a used travel trailer. I'm sure I'll end up regretting it even more than I already do, but, the family is excited about it, so for now, I'm just trying to get it out and use it a couple times before it sits on the side of the house decaying and depreciating all winter.

It's a 2001 Thor Wanderer Lite 240MS.

When on shore power, the air conditioner and the microwave work, but the fridge won't run on AC, but will on gas. Finally had a few minutes to try and troubleshoot last night. The 110 AC outlet that the fridge plugs into has no juice. So that would explain why the fridge doesn't run on AC...

But now I need to figure out why the outlet has no power.

All the following is while plugged into shore power.

The air conditioner works. The batteries get charged. The outlet that the microwave plugs into has power. And the only outlet in the trailer with GFI test/reset buttons is the one in the bathroom and it works too. There are four or five other outlets inside the trailer and none of them work. And besides the one on the back of the fridge that is accessed from outside, there are four other outlets on the outside of the trailer and none of them are working either.

At the power panel, the microwave and air conditioner have their own breakers. There is one breaker labeled "GFCI". All the breakers and DC fuses on the panel are good. If I turn off the breaker labeled "GFCI" the outlet in the bathroom goes dark. Turning that breaker on makes that oultet live. That breaker apparently isn't related to any of the other AC outlets, which aren't working.

The outlet that the fridge plugs into (which isn't working) is fed by romex. The romex disapears into the insulation in the outside wall and I'd have to tear the walls apart to chase it. I'm guessing that the other non-working outlets are probably fed by romex too. But, I see no romex coming in to the inverter/converter/power center whatever it's called where the breakers and fuses are.

So, anyone have a clue they can toss me? Is there another master switch or breaker hiding somewhere I need to find? A second "plug in" point that powers all those outlets, separate from tthe main shore power "hook up"? Never owned or messed with an RV before!- DAA

 

[jeeper]

If you do not have Romex coming into the breaker/converter box, Then what do you have feeding all the 110v outlets? I have done quite a bit of trailer electrical, and it has always been romex into the breakers.

 

[frieed]

The poke-the-wire-into-the-back connectors are fast to install but are known for intermittent connections. If the fridge outlet is daisy-chained off another outlet and the wires are poked in, then the solution may be to move the wires to the screw connectors. You still need to locate the source for the fridge power so I'd look at the closest outlet in the direction the wire heads from the fridge outlet. Also, some manufacturers will send wiring and construction details if you provide your vin.

-Frieed

 

[DAA]

Thanks for the input fellas. You've given me some direction to move in. And I'll try and get some pictures to post back with if I'm still stumped.

Eric - mfg is out of business, so no joy in that direction. I haven't found a wiring diagram yet.

I do believe the outlets are daisy chained, or each one is a junction box as UT410 put it. I say that because the one I took apart, the one for the fridge, has two pieces of romex coming in for one outlet. The wires themselves are cold, not just the outlet, so wherever it's broken or tripped or whatever, it's upstream from there I guess.

Will pull some more stuff apart, try to get a better view of what is really coming in to the power center, look a the breakers again etc.

Thanks!

- DAA

 

[DAA]

WTF?

Okay, I know I don't know anything about electrical. I know that. I knew that before I started messing with this.

But... WTF?

One of the outlets that was reading zero last night. I haven't done anything, touched anything since. And now, if I'm reading the meter right - which I can't possibly be - it's at 191V? Can't be. It's just proof that I don't know what in the heck I'm doing.

Checked a couple other outlets inside the trailer that were measuring zero last night and they are showing me 189-191V right now too.

The GFCI outlet in the bathroom, the one that WAS working last night, is still working, but showing what I would consider more normal 102V. I checked an outlet in the garage with the meter on the same setting for a sanity check and got 114V.

Like I said, clearly, I don't know what I'm doing here... Haven't taken the panel off outside to check the fridge outlet yet, guess I'll do that next.

- DAA

 

[gijohn40]

I have some tracers that will help you find the problem if you would I could come over friday night or saturday night or anytime sunday...

 

[gijohn40]

it might be the inverter inside the trailer that is going bad or has a loose wire...

 

[DAA]

I think something definitely must be going haywire.

Went back out to check the fridge outlet. But before doing that, I checked the same one as in the picture above again. This time, it only showed 5V, and started dropping down to less than 2V. Not zero like last night, but not much either. Checked another outlet inside, same thing. So instead of checking the fridge outlet outside, I decided to look at the panel one more time and get some pictures.

I was wrong when I said there isn't any romex going in to it - there is, three pieces. You can see it in the pics below.

So I tried just resetting all the breakers again. Not sure if the one labeled A/C is just for the air conditioner, or would be for these AC outlets I'm having trouble with too? It definitely does have the air conditioner on it though, turning it on and off turns the air conditioner on and off.

Anyway, reset all the breakers, trying to make sure what really controlled what. The one labeled GFCI definitely controls the outlet in the bathroom that has the GFCI test/reset buttons on it. As far as I can tell, it doesn't have any effect on any of the others though.

But after messing with all that, I check the same outlet by the sink again and it's back to 191V. So I go out and check the fridge outlet and it does the 5V and count down to less than 2V. So I come back in and check the first one again, the one that less than a minute earlier was showing 191V and it does the 5V and countdown towards zero now too.

I am thoroughly confused...

I have some tracers that will help you find the problem if you would I could come over friday night or saturday night or anytime sunday...

THAT would be awesome! Would need to be Sunday though. I'm going to drag this bad boy out of here Fri. afternoon and use it Fri. and Sat. night. But we'll be home pretty early on Sunday.

- DAA

 

[frieed]

Hey Dave,

I found this thread, maybe they come up with a solution http://forums.goodsamclub.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/27079371.cfm

 

[DAA]

I've already abandoned that ship...

- DAA

 

[gijohn40]

you GFCI in the bathroom is going to have a line side and load side... the line side is the incoming power... the load side is usually all the rest of the outlets... GFCI go bad all the time... take it out and look on the back and it will say one set of screws are the line and the other is the load... make sure they are all connected.

When you have the 191 volts if your close to the power box have someone shut off each breaker one at a time until you see which one kills the power...

 

[DAA]

First, can you pull the model number of the converter? Second, there should be a blade-type fuse away from the others, sometimes labeled reverse polarity or something like that. I've seen them with both one or two. Can you check it to see if it's(they're) blown?

Looks like the converter model is MagnaTek #6332.

I haven't found any fuses away from the converter/power center panel itself yet.

Thanks!

- DAA

 

[DAA]

you GFCI in the bathroom is going to have a line side and load side... the line side is the incoming power... the load side is usually all the rest of the outlets... GFCI go bad all the time... take it out and look on the back and it will say one set of screws are the line and the other is the load... make sure they are all connected.

When you have the 191 volts if your close to the power box have someone shut off each breaker one at a time until you see which one kills the power...

More good stuff for me to follow up on - appreciate it!

Here's a diagram with a troubleshooting chart. And a factory diagram.

Good deal, I printed these off. Even as electrically challenged as I am, I do have half way decent reading comprehension so these will help I'm sure.

Don't know if I am going to have any time to mess around with this some more this evening or not. Tomorrow after work I'm hitching the trailer up and taking it out for a couple of nights. So, if I can't get to it tonight, won't be working on this again until Sunday.

REALLY appreciate the help from you guys though, definitely way better than wandering around this blindly.

- DAA

 

[DAA]

Finally had some time to mess with this again today. Found a broken white wire going into one of the outlets. Fixed that and now everything seem fine.

Nice!

- DAA

 

[frieed]

Sure beats messing with the black water tank..

 

[DAA]

Electrical isn't so difficult now, is it?

Well... I'm not quite ready to say it's easy, but will admit, not as hard as I had made it out to be in my own mind.

And, yeah, this thing was built in 2001 and I've been just kind of digging into everything and checkign everything out. Tapping staples back in here and there, tightening screws, cleaning the air conditioner and fridge workings etc. Got up on the roof and the caulk all looked all original, and not an inch of it without a crack. Couldn't see any evidence of it leaking from the inside, but I don't think that would have been true after this coming winter. Re-caulked and used eternabond on all the seams, the eternabond was expensive, but seems like a really good product, I don't think that sucker is EVER going to leak now and I won't have to worry about re-caulking those seams again .

Bathroom floor needs replaced due to a plumbing leak, but I'm puttting that off till next spring.

DO appreciate the help - it helped!

- DAA