Anyone see SUWA on Fox News this morning?

[StrobeNGH]

It was really great. She told me that having roads in the wilderness destroyed wilderness, and that if we didn't support the bill before congress to close these roads down, we would not have any, and I quote, "Wilderness Quality" land left in S. Utah.

Apparently there is going to be a party in the Gallivan Center for SUWA tonight. Rocky AND the Governor will be there.
I was thrilled to hear that the Governor will be there.

Anyway, it got me thinking.
Why not out-environmentalist SUWA?

Does U4WDA support the destruction of wilderness lands, or does U4WDA simply support maintaining public access to these lands?

I know that there is generally a hostile attitude towards environmentalists, but that is only because these extremists have hijacked the name.
Consider this:

"The spirit of progress is in the air...The enthusiastic, exulting energy displayed in the building of new towns, railroads, and mills, in the opening of mines of coal and iron and the development of natural resources in general." STEEP TRAILS, pg.181

"...Many of Nature's five hundred kinds of wild trees had to make way for orchards and cornfields." OUR NP, pg.335

Those are quotes by John Muir, the Father of the modern environmentalist movement (Rachel Carson is the mother of the wacko movement, started by publishing her book Silent Spring which attacked the use of DDT, whose claims were recently debunked).
It was John Muir who established the National Park Service . . . you know, the same people who put roads through the National Parks!!!

For your advertising campaign, why not go the environmentalist route? Point out that the environmentalist movement was founded to protect these lands. The best way to do that was to make sure that the public saw and experienced them. There was NEVER any intent by the early environmentalists to cut off public access to wilderness areas. Instead, it was environmentalists who established the park service to put roads through these areas so that the public could experience them.

Find a good quote about preserving the environment AND the importance of protecting access to these lands so that the public can appreciate the beauty of these areas, and the importance of protecting them.

IF U4WDA emphasizes the importance of PROTECTING these areas, and explains the relationship between roads/access AND protecting/preserving these areas, you will paint SUWA into a corner in which they will have to explain their elitist attitudes.

 

[StrobeNGH]

More John Muir quotes:

"Most travelers content themselves with what they may chance to see from car windows...clinging to the battered highways like drowning sailors to a life craft." STEEP TRAILS, pg.223

"Most travelers here are content with what they can see from the car windows of the verandas of hotels, and in going from place to place cling to their precious like wrecked sailors to rafts." OUR NP, pg.28


"Doubtless, under certain precautionary restrictions, these useful, progressive, blunt-nosed mechanical beetles will hereafter be allowed to puff their way into all the parks and mingle their gas-breath with the breath of pines and waterfalls, and, from the mountaineers standpoint, with but little harm or good." THE YOSEMITE, pg.xi

"As for reservation and protection of forests, it seems as silly and needless to them as protection and reservation of the ocean would be, both appearing to be boundless and inexhaustible." Our National Parks, pg.343


"In their natural condition, or under wise management...these forests would be a never failing fountain of wealth and beauty." Our National Parks, pg.360

"Fear not, therefore, to try the mountain-passes. They will kill care, save you from deadly apathy, set you free, and call forth every faculty into vigorous, enthusiastic action. Even the sick should try these so-called dangerous passes, because for every unfortunate they kill, they cure a thousand." Mountains of California, pg.79

"The mountains are fountains not only of rivers and fertile soil, but of men." Steep Trails, pg.33

"The time will not be taken from the sum of your life. Instead of shortening, it will indefinitely lengthen it and make you truly immortal. Nevermore will time seem short or long, and cares will never again fall heavily on you, but gently and kindly as gifts from heaven." Our National Parks, pg.19

"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you and the storms their energy, while care will drop off like autumn leaves." Our National Parks, pg.56

"What wonders lie in every mountain day!...Crystals of snow, plash of small raindrops, hum of small insects, booming beetles, the jolly rattle of grasshoppers, chirping of crickets, the screaming of hawks, jays, and Clark crows, the 'coo-r-r-r' of cranes, the honking of geese, partridges drumming, trumpeting swans, frogs croaking, the whirring rattle of snakes, the awful enthusiasm of booming falls, the roar of cataracts, the crash and roll of thunder, earthquake shocks, the whisper of rills soothing to slumber, the piping of marmots, the bark of squirrels, the laugh of a wolf, the snorting of deer, the explosive roaring of bears, the squeak of mice, the cry of the loon -- loneliest, wildest of sounds..."

"A fine place for feasting if only one be poor enough. One is speedily absorbed into the spiritual value of things. The body vanishes and the freed soul goes abroad..." John of the Mountains ...The Unpublished Journals of John Muir, pg.92-93

"All the world was before me and every day was a holiday, so I did not seem important to which one of the world's wildernesses I first should wander." ????

"Wander here a whole summer, if you can. Thousands of God's wild blessings will search you and soak as if you were a sponge, and the big days will go by uncounted." ???

http://www.nps.gov/archive/jomu/quotes5.htm

 

[StrobeNGH]

A billboard that says:
"Take the road less traveled by. It will make all the difference."

Help us preserve public access to Utah's wilderness.
U4WDA.com

 

[StrobeNGH]

My point is: There is NOTHING in environmentalism that says that we must prevent roads through these areas.

Environmentalism's goal is to protect and preserve these areas, not hermetically seal them. It is possible for public access/roads and protection/preservation to co-exist.

Not even the Sierra Club advocates closing access.
Their only gripe with off-road vehicles is when they leave designated trails and cause damage to the land . . . but isn't that a gripe that U4WDA has as well?

 

[Don B]

I agree.

I always say that our 4x4 club is the true environmentalists in our area. If you see someone cleaning up trash or repairing damage anywhere, it's always the motorized groups, never the so called "enviromentalists"

SUWA only wants to close roads down because it's part of their political agenda. The green they love the most is all the dollars falling into their pockets.

Question; If these roads in "wilderness" areas haven't destroyed the quality of these lands in the last 100 or so years that they've been there, why are they going to destroy it now?

We support maintaining access to OUR public lands, we do not support anyone damaging our lands for any reason.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

So my first question StrobeNGH... are you a current member of U4WDA?

 

[Tacoma]

let's check!

where is the members list.

 

[StrobeNGH]

So my first question StrobeNGH... are you a current member of U4WDA?

Nope.
I was, but then I moved away to law school, and have only been back in Utah for the past few months.

It's at the bottom of my to-do list, below such things as:
Sell old house,
Find job
Find new house.

But I'll get back in it . . .

 

[Tacoma]

$10, you lazy bastard. Get on it!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Noted... I'll give the benefit of the doubt as you were a member, otherwise I would have left my reply as it stood

The U4WDA would love to do a billboard, but we don't have the money nor resources to pull it off sadly. We are closer than we were 5 years ago... by far, but it still a future goal. SUWA is a giant money machine, multi-million dollar annual budgets, dwarwing all the Utah pro-access groups combined... by multi-millions. Its going to be a tough battle.

Some of our current promos, similar to your message...

 

[StrobeNGH]

Sorry, I recalled the old billboard thread, and mistook USA-ALL for U4WDA.
http://rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=45624

Tacoma: if $10 isn't that much, go ahead and pay for my membership.





Like I said, I've been busy this summer . . . studying for the bar, relocating, job hunting, taking care of my parents (dad just had a stroke), etc . . .

 

[Seth]

Steve and I had this discussion not too long ago. The message that we are stewards of the land gets lost. Everyone knows we are for access. But what they don't seem to understand is that foremost in our agenda is protecting the land. A result of that is access.

All of that being said it boils down to dollars. To push marketing it takes money. And currently we have limited funds. We could use help with fund raising, Advertising sales, grant research etc... U4 is stretched t h i n.

I like what you are saying but we lack the manpower and funds. This is why we are constantly harping about help. A few hours a month would go a long way.

 

[waynehartwig]

Nope.
I was, but then I moved away to law school, and have only been back in Utah for the past few months.

It's at the bottom of my to-do list, below such things as:
Sell old house,
Find job
Find new house.

But I'll get back in it . . .

No excuse... I live in Washington and am a member

If your home has always been, and will be, you should not fold your position just because you are temporarily somewhere else. What is it, $10 a year?

My roots go way back in Utah to the first settlers. I've always had roots, and I always will.

 

[Seth]

Sorry, I recalled the old billboard thread, and mistook USA-ALL for U4WDA.
http://rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=45624

Tacoma: if $10 isn't that much, go ahead and pay for my membership.





Like I said, I've been busy this summer . . . studying for the bar, relocating, job hunting, taking care of my parents (dad just had a stroke), etc . . .

Sorry to hear about your dad. That's not fun at all.

It's not like the $10 is going to make or break anything. The point is that the number one problem access groups face in Utah is not SUWA or The Sierra Club. It is our own apathy.

We all have our own trials and we are all busy. But putting off joining should not be a consequence of that. I have always said it is all a mater of priorities. If it matters to you, you make time. I am happy to stand on my soapbox because I hear it all the time. I just talked to a guy that has a rig he just finished. He was looking for people to go wheel with. When I gave him a U4 sticker his response was "I don't want to join anything I just want to wheel". And that is the problem rolled up in a nutshell.

You can join in 1/10 the time it takes to type up a response to this post.

https://www.u4wda.org/joinus.aspx

Then we can con you into helping fundraise to get this marketing off the ground.

 

[waynehartwig]

Sorry, I recalled the old billboard thread, and mistook USA-ALL for U4WDA.
http://rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=45624

Tacoma: if $10 isn't that much, go ahead and pay for my membership.





Like I said, I've been busy this summer . . . studying for the bar, relocating, job hunting, taking care of my parents (dad just had a stroke), etc . . .

You act like it takes hours to renew your membership. It's a 5 minute deal and $10. I understand you had family issues this summer, but what about last year (I'm assuming your membership has been expried for several years while at school, I don't know, but it sounds like excuses to me).

 

[StrobeNGH]

Steve and I had this discussion not too long ago. The message that we are stewards of the land gets lost. Everyone knows we are for access. But what they don't seem to understand is that foremost in our agenda is protecting the land. A result of that is access.

All of that being said it boils down to dollars. To push marketing it takes money. And currently we have limited funds. We could use help with fund raising, Advertising sales, grant research etc... U4 is stretched t h i n.

I like what you are saying but we lack the manpower and funds. This is why we are constantly harping about help. A few hours a month would go a long way.

You have to face the fact that extreme 4-wheelers do not have a good public image.
SUWA plays on this public image and tells the public that they must close roads to stop the evil off-roaders. We play their game and try to defend ourselves.

Why? Why play their game. If they want to make off-roaders look like evil people, so be it.
Let them call us names, while we focus on the real issues: protecting access to the land for everyone.

There is nothing wrong with pointing out that not all off-roaders go off designated trails, but that should not be a primary focus.
Questions will inevitably be asked of the harm off-roaders cause to land, and those questions may be addressed when they are asked. But that should not be a primary focus.

I like the second picture that Kurt posted, but I think that the first one is counter-productive if the purpose of these groups is to protect access.

Has anyone ever considered joining forces with other groups who want to protect access that are not associated with off-roading?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I don't think anyone isn't "facing the facts" especially those that sit in on our meetings and hear the grim outlook on situations all over the state (though they are seemingly slowing.

What groups would you consider us joining with? I can tell you right now many won't just because of their affiliations... You would be surprised how well we actually get along with like minded environmentalists (of the anti-access persuation)... I've had many conversations with them, we've hiked the same places, camped the same places, etc... When it really comes down to it they don't have an issue with motorized vehicles as a whole (especially full-size rigs, ATV's are another story). But, they have to stand for their cause, and we stand for ours... often their is no middle ground.

I sat in on a debate between SUWA's Hiedi MacIntosh and BRC's Brian Hawthorne at the U a coupe years back. Doug (the facilitator) asked Brian if they agreed with some of the Wilderness bill, he said yes, in fact we supported some of their original designations, but they have since asked for more and more. Doug then asked Hiedi why they couldn't stike an agreement and get the ball rolling on protecting Utah... Her reply was no, based on the fact she has too many organizations and groups that she must consult with. They want all or none... no middle ground.

No offense but we get folks with similar suggestions once an week, hell they might even show up to a meeting or two. But unless they are their to follow through with their ideas, it likely isn't going to go anywhere as we are all up to our necks in other projects. I remember when I showed up with all these "big ideas", I presented them to the board and everyone said great idea, not a new idea, but a great one... do it. I though they were being jerks for dismissing my ideas as old news... A couple of years later Steve Jackson shows up with some killer ideas... now I was saying... "great idea, not a new idea gut a good one" We need manpower more than we need new stratagies

 

[waynehartwig]

They want all or none... no middle ground.

And that's their problem, they won't stop until 100% of the land is protected. I really believe that is their goal.

 

[StrobeNGH]

Steve and I had this discussion not too long ago. The message that we are stewards of the land gets lost. Everyone knows we are for access. But what they don't seem to understand is that foremost in our agenda is protecting the land. A result of that is access.

All of that being said it boils down to dollars. To push marketing it takes money. And currently we have limited funds. We could use help with fund raising, Advertising sales, grant research etc... U4 is stretched t h i n.

I like what you are saying but we lack the manpower and funds. This is why we are constantly harping about help. A few hours a month would go a long way.

Effective recruitment technique

You act like it takes hours to renew your membership. It's a 5 minute deal and $10. I understand you had family issues this summer, but what about last year (I'm assuming your membership has been expried for several years while at school, I don't know, but it sounds like excuses to me).

Ineffective recruitment technique


I let my membership expire because I was very busy with school, and I got sick of the myriad of emails.
Yes, I am being lazy, and yes I could scrounge up $10, but it is not a priority for me. Money really is tight, especially when you consider a mortgage payment and school loans which equal said mortgage payment.


I find it amazing that I made a suggestion trying to help achieve the goal of U4WDA, but instead of the primary focus being on the suggestion, the focus is shifted onto my membership in said organization.

My hell. I was only trying to help, and I am hit with a myriad of messages about how lazy I am and why I should join U4WDA.

I know this, and I really had planned on renewing my membership . . .

I may not be a paying member, but I was still trying to help. These reactions may change that desire in some people.
My $.02

 

[cruiseroutfit]

....I find it amazing that I made a suggestion trying to help achieve the goal of U4WDA, but instead of the primary focus being on the suggestion, the focus is shifted onto my membership in said organization.

My hell. I was only trying to help, and I am hit with a myriad of messages about how lazy I am and why I should join U4WDA.

I know this, and I really had planned on renewing my membership . . .

I may not be a paying member, but I was still trying to help. These reactions may change that desire in some people.
My $.02

I hope you don't really perceive it as that... I asked the question to "size-up" the whole idea. Your suggestion is great! And we love suggestions, it helps us choose the path to best guide the U4WDA. BUT, my earlier reply is 100% on the mark here... and as much as I hate saying it... "Great idea, not a new idea, but a great one... DO IT" Literally, we have been hearing ideas like this for sometime, and we are by no means against it... its just that change and revision take manpower, manpower we are already short on.

When you get back on your feet time wise, I would love you to come out to a BOD meeting and present your idea, better if it had a plan of action accompanying it We are always supportive of new projects, we will help fundraise, we will help encourage others to get involved with it. Let us know!