Bench Race: Budget Crawler(s)

[benjy]

How would you spec out a budget crawler?

Selling our TJ made sense when I did it... but now I want something to wheel again. We considered a family rig for awhile, but I think I'd like to undertake a buggy project. Having 2 rigs would overcome a lot of the problems we had with wheeling, so I think I may just do 2 side by side. With that in mind, budget is even more important. I don't have a budget in mind, I'll spend the $ where I need to, but also can't go all in. Also - no need for go fast on this build, it's not really our thing. 100% crawler. I'm really not even sure if I'd do skins on it. Definitely a hood. Needs to be 3 seater.

I'm 3,000 miles from my garage, so this is all just theory until the end of summer. It's fun to think about :thumbs:

This is what I'm thinking:

Chassis

• AZ Crawler BMP III plans - this is the option I'm leaning toward. Having never built a chassis, it would give me a better chance of everything fitting with less rework and would be the least expensive starting point http://azrockcrawler.com/
• Use Bendtech and make my own creation. I could do this while we're traveling, and have a design ready to start bending when I got back. I like this idea, but I'd feel more confident with a proven starting point. Add to that the AZ plans would actually be cheaper than buying the software
• JHF or other fabricator build a chassis - this is the most ideal option, but probably not in the cards due to cost
• Goat built - I really like this option. The "full kit" is $12k, but does come with a ton of stuff to make the build easier. I don't think it really fits the crawler only idea I'm going for. Would feel strange using 37s and airshocks on this.

Drivetrain

• Engine - GM 4.3L - cheap, plentiful, enough power for a light buggy for this purpose. Probably a TBI for simplicity?
• 4L60E/700R4/TH400 - Not picky on trans, definitely auto. Not doing a manual valve body on this one.
• Twin stick Dana 300

Miscellaneous

• D44/9 inch - This is a big budget concession. I got really lucky on our one tons in the TJ, I doubt I'd come across a deal like that again (twice). Rear would be spooled, front probably detroit?
• Steel wheels w/ weld on beadlocks
• 37's - I'd probably do Maxxis Creepy Crawlers (Bias ply). I realize 42's are the new big thing, but I think 37s would meet our needs.
• Airshocks - Probably Fox or King... not a lot of brand loyalty here. I was going to do FOA, but as far as I can tell they don't offer an airshock. Any other brands to consider?
• Polyurethane bump stop
• Seats - comfort is pretty important to me. I'd probably just go new PRPs for this so they all matched

Would you do anything differently? One tons worth the cost? 37s silly now that 40s are small? Just buy a RZR? Start with 2 YJs instead?

I'd love to hear your guys' ideas, or what you'd do differently.

 

[mesha]

I am not sure what I would do differently, but I am excited to see your ideas turn into reality.

 

[mbryson]

Super Duty axles aren't as expensive as a "traditional" bolt pattern D60.

 

[idahoyj]

There was an IBEX chassis on KSL the other day....

 

[Unimog]

I'd say how much heavier is a 5.7 over a 4.3? The 5.7 seem to be more common to come by.

 

[comingdown]

I'm doing something similar. Samurai frame (some of it anyway) and body, again, some of it, bending and fabbing a cage from .120 DOM. 4.3l, with the 4l60 trans from the donor car I bought. Fj80 axles. 37" tires. Welded diffs, full hydro steering, and a 4 seater linked on air shocks or coilovers. Planning on keeping it dirt cheap and not in any hurry. I'm trying to squirrel stuff away as I go. Anyway, I'll be watching for future progress. I'd been out of town do now once the shop is squared away, I'm gonna dig in and get the drive train mounted, and start on the cage and suspension.

 

[Coco]

There was an IBEX chassis on KSL the other day....

This one?
http://www.ksl.com/classifieds/listing/44059158

I'm not sure what it is, but its not an IBEX. To me it looks like a homebrew of some type with an IBEX panhard bracket, and thus the name IBEX? :-\
Actual GB IBEX
www.goatbuilt.com

I like the thoughts of the AZ chassis. I have looked at their stuff in the past, and really like the looks of their chassis. My personal favorite is the Hellraiser II. After my buggy build (twice) I would definitely start from scratch, or with a chassis designed for specific drivetrain. Trying to shoehorn everything in between stock frame rails, or in pre-built chassis make it really difficult.

A custom chassis that you build is a great option to make something completely around any drivetrain of your choosing. Plus the sky is the limit on what you would want it to look like, function, seats, seat position, etc.

Both JHF and Jake Hallenbeck do amazing work. You can't really go wrong with either of them, if you can afford it and are willing to wait. (JHF is booked up for a year IIRC, and Jake is getting booked up as well, they both are looking for fabricators however, work it into a deal )

Goatbuilt chassis are really nice. I like the idea of 'buggy in a box' and being able to completely build the chassis yourself. Plus being built around, and have options for good drivetrain makes it that much better.

I went with a Dana 300 on my rebuild. I am hoping it will work out well, and do great for me. I am only nervous about the case itself, but I have done everything I can think of to keep its strength. I didn't want to bite the bullet for an Atlas just yet, and think this will be a good option. Not to mention I dont have the horsepower to worry too much I dont think

Airshocks and coilovers are great options, but if you have the cash to spend, look into ORIs as well. Hardline90 put them on his buggy, and he loves them. He was running FOA coilovers on the Jeep, and he liked them as well. His only complaint is it took them a while to get the spring sliders to break in, and they were really noisy for the first year. Really any of those options are great options.

37s or 40s is what I would go with. 42s are overrated. (I'm just jealous, and too cheap to afford them)

Sorry, that is a bit all over the place, and not in a nice, neat order haha.

 

[skippy]

Buy a car already built, save thousands!...... Mic drop

 

[RogueJeepr]

He's got a good point.
I've heard this in the hotrod world. "You can buy one cheaper than building one".
Look at ChestonScout's new rig , ready for the trails.

I think the problem is finding something that's not beat to piss, very recently built and maintained well.

My rigs;; I've always bought stock vehicles but my next jeep maybe different.

Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk

 

[Bart]

Like has been said, JHF is over a year out and it's much cheaper to buy than build. After building a few I don't think I'd ever build from scratch again. BTW, Ben Hanks last buggy with Ben Hanks Racing has been up for sale recently, and I would think they could be talked down on the price because of the 7 year old technology.

 

[Herzog]

I agree that it's cheaper to buy in many cases... but I will still always build. I enjoy the build!

Ben - excited to hear your getting back in! My only advice so far is that a 60 will cost you less than a built D44. My last buggy was d44 f/r running 38's. I had to build them to the gills just to feel confident in them, alloys, CTMS, drive gears, etc. My front D60 now has alloys outers, Spicer joints, a used Detroit and used 5.36 gears. I'm pretty certain I spent less or at least came close to even and I have more confidence in that front axle. That said, I did like the lightness of the D44s. That rig was nimble.

 

[benjy]

I've been around long enough to understand the build v. buy... It's kind of a bucket list thing for me, and I'm in a point in my life where I can put some good time to it this fall/winter and into next year.

Ben - excited to hear your getting back in! My only advice so far is that a 60 will cost you less than a built D44. My last buggy was d44 f/r running 38's. I had to build them to the gills just to feel confident in them, alloys, CTMS, drive gears, etc. My front D60 now has allow outers, Spicer joints, a used Detroit and used 5.36 gears. I'm pretty certain I spent less or at least came close to even and I have more confidence in that front axle. That said, I did light the lightness of the D44s. That rig was nimble.

What's your opinion on airshocks? Your first version on the buggy had them, did you use them again on round 2?

You're probably right. The initial cost of the axles really only vary a few hundred $'s. I really don't need a 78-79 kingpin, or whatever the ultra desirable D60 is.

I like the thoughts of the AZ chassis. I have looked at their stuff in the past, and really like the looks of their chassis. My personal favorite is the Hellraiser II. After my buggy build (twice) I would definitely start from scratch, or with a chassis designed for specific drivetrain. Trying to shoehorn everything in between stock frame rails, or in pre-built chassis make it really difficult.

I went with a Dana 300 on my rebuild. I am hoping it will work out well, and do great for me. I am only nervous about the case itself, but I have done everything I can think of to keep its strength. I didn't want to bite the bullet for an Atlas just yet, and think this will be a good option. Not to mention I dont have the horsepower to worry too much I dont think

Airshocks and coilovers are great options, but if you have the cash to spend, look into ORIs as well. Hardline90 put them on his buggy, and he loves them. He was running FOA coilovers on the Jeep, and he liked them as well. His only complaint is it took them a while to get the spring sliders to break in, and they were really noisy for the first year. Really any of those options are great options.

37s or 40s is what I would go with. 42s are overrated. (I'm just jealous, and too cheap to afford them)

The hellraiser is a cool design. I'm sure you'll be fine with the D300. I love that you refer to him as Hardline 90 Definitely 40s max, I'm not cool enough for 42s.

Super Duty axles aren't as expensive as a "traditional" bolt pattern D60.

Just checked, even from a "real" junkyard they're pretty cheap... ~600 for front ~400 for rear. Looks like they go back as far as 99... wonder if a pick n pull yard would have them.

 

[Herzog]

What's your opinion on airshocks? Your first version on the buggy had them, did you use them again on round 2?

I will take my 'cheapish' FOA coilovers over the airshocks I had any day.

 

[RockChucker]

Ben, if you want to do a super duty 60, get 05+. Way beefier design. And you can buy factory 35 spline 1550 shaft assemblies from ford for less than $200 per side. Build in some crazy steering angles with those. In fact I know a guy that has one that will sell it to you for cheap

 

[YROC FAB.]

Buy a car already built, save thousands!...... Mic drop

Pretty much this^ I see them for sale all the time on fb that doesn't even cover the cost of the parts. Built toyotas are the best at this. I see them dueled, locked, geared,shafts, on tires with bead locks for 3-4k. Its stupid. I plan on keeping all my junk i build at the rate built rigs sale for.

 

[N-Smooth]

I think IBEX cars are cool because of the ability to assemble it yourself without spending days staring at every tube you put in- like building from scratch. I also like all of the "accessories" they have like floor, firewall etc.

I also think an LS motor just makes more sense than a 4.3 based on how plentiful and affordable they are. And since you'll do a 60 cause it just makes sense, the extra power won't be a problem. Definitely look for a "super 60" as Dave said and pair it with a sterling if you want.

 

[benjy]

I think IBEX cars are cool because of the ability to assemble it yourself without spending days staring at every tube you put in- like building from scratch. I also like all of the "accessories" they have like floor, firewall etc.

I also think an LS motor just makes more sense than a 4.3 based on how plentiful and affordable they are. And since you'll do a 60 cause it just makes sense, the extra power won't be a problem. Definitely look for a "super 60" as Dave said and pair it with a sterling if you want.

Apparently you've watched me bend tube.... 5 minutes to make a bend, 2 hours to stare at it

True on the LS - a junkyard 5.3 isn't much more than a junkyard 4.3. Either way harness needs to be worked over.

 

[Caleb]

Some of the fun is figuring out those details like floors, firewalls, etc but those are also the most time consuming. I know when I built my buggy those details are what took by far the most time and are really what made me not want to build another (at least any time soon). Even when I sold my buggy, it was probably 80% finished with those details. My one regret was using the 4.3. I always wanted a little more with it and said if I ever did another it'd be a V8 of some kind.

I would love to build a nice TJ/LJ (pretty much like what you sold ) some day, but I have to say my desire to build something has dramatically decreased since getting my rzr. If you want to hardcore crawling, it certainly won't replace that but they are pretty dang capable and fun right out of the box. Granted for what you spend on a new rzr, you could build a nice crawler.

 

[skippy]

I have an LS powered buggy and it is the best decision I made on the entire build. Definately do a V8 and definately do one tons. You will thank yourself when it comes time to sell it. if you want a super narrow set of 50 degree steering super over built one tons I might know a guy thats ditching a set...