BFG AT tire Grooving, what do you think

[DOSS]

So .. those of you who have run BFG AT's should know that the AT gets loaded up realy easy in Mud and Snow..

I like my AT's but wish they would clean out better... MUCH better... So I figure Tire grooving may be the answer.. here is my idea

The AT looks like this

I am thinking doing this..

Or a little more

Thoughts.. opinions.. Flame on!

Anyone got a groover handy?

 

[reddevil]

Put your foot on the skinny peddle, tires clean out just fine. Works for me.

But for reals, I think it would be hard to get a good ballanced tire, and if you don't care about road manners then just go with a mud tire.

 

[DOSS]

I spent way too much time with my foot in it today going up a canyon in the snow when my friend with MT's didn't have to deal with that problem at all.. I just don't have the $$ for new tires right now..

 

[Greg]

I wouldn't touch them, IMO you'll just ruin a good set of AT's. Get your friend with Mud tires on a snow packed road & he'll want your tires.

 

[Maverick]

Air down a little. Or a lot. I had to do that a few weeks ago with the ones on my X.

THere are so many different types of snow and snow conditions. I've seen AT KO's eat lunch over muds in the snow on several occasions. I've seen it the other way too.

If they really don't work for you, buy a set of chains for now, and next time, get muds.

 

[BlackSheep]

Both of your suggested options are not going to help you with mud. Yes, it does open up the tread a little, but you're not providing a path for the mud to be forced out of the contact patch. You will lose wear life and traction on rocks, packed snow and on-road. IF you gain anything in mud traction, you will probably not even notice it.

Spinning the tires and using the proper air pressure are your best options to keep the tread clean.

In my opinion, you would be completely wasting a set of tires. You say you don't have money for a new set of tires, but you'd be throwing away a bunch of money doing the modifications you have outlined.

Understand that when a tread pattern is designed, it is a compromise between all the different performance parameters. With a MT pattern, you give up (packed) snow / ice / wet traction and wear life to gain mud (and deep snow) cleaning ability. With an AT, you get back those listed at the cost of mud (deep snow).

When you buy tires in the future, keep this in mind. Purchase your tires for the majority of your actual needs, and live with the compromises.

My suggestion is to live with it, or find a used set of mudders and a second set of wheels.

 

[DOSS]

When you buy tires in the future, keep this in mind. Purchase your tires for the majority of your actual needs, and live with the compromises.

Unfortunately I did.. it was a DD when I got the tires but have since gotten something with better Gas Mileage...

I guess I will just suck it up and deal until later this summer when I get my MT's don't have the $$ right now and was trying to be cheap...

 

[gijohn40]

what size tire are they? I have a set of 33x12.50x15 dunlop mudders that I might trade ya for...

 

[DOSS]

they are 32X11.50X15

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Both of your suggested options are not going to help you with mud. Yes, it does open up the tread a little, but you're not providing a path for the mud to be forced out of the contact patch. You will lose wear life and traction on rocks, packed snow and on-road. IF you gain anything in mud traction, you will probably not even notice it. ....

Blah, blah, blah... What do you know about tires?




Oh yeah, your a tire engineer, from BFG

Seriously though, you can't get a better opinion than BlackSheeps, he's forgot more about tires than any of us will ever know

 

[Tacoma]

That's weird. I LOVED my AT's, on a '99 Cherokee... because they never packed up with snow. Sure, if I stopped there would be snow in the tread... but it seemed to let go when it hit the ground.
I really hardly ever put the XJ in 4wd, they worked so well.... seriously.

 

[BlackSheep]

Blah, blah, blah... What do you know about tires?

 

[Maverick]

Um...a tire packing up with snow is what gives you traction...in certain types of snow.

I've seen even aggressive mudders get stuck by icing up the snow, mainly cuz they were at too high psi.

Tire chains. Good stuff. I've even run chains on my 38" swampers.

 

[Tacoma]

I always thought they "bit" the snow at the contact patch, hence the snowy treads that you could see.

At any rate I had top notch traction out of my AT's... and similar traction w/better cleaning w/these Durango's I have now.

 

[Maverick]

I think it depends on how deep the snow is, and how well it packs...as to what aspect of the tire is helping out. Biting edges are great on packed or icy surfaces. Slush, fresh, crusted, blown, powder, wet vs dry...all those things will make a difference in what tire and what combination of tire characteristics will help.

Just a guess though...

 

[BlackSheep]

I think it depends on how deep the snow is, and how well it packs...as to what aspect of the tire is helping out. Biting edges are great on packed or icy surfaces. Slush, fresh, crusted, blown, powder, wet vs dry...all those things will make a difference in what tire and what combination of tire characteristics will help.

Just a guess though...

I think the eskimos have over a hundred words to describe different types of snow. Since a lot of you are skiers, you probably have a dozen or more words to describe conditions on the slopes. Shoot, Brett has come up with over a half dozen right there.

A tire can be designed to be perfect for any given snow condition, but that doesn't guarantee success in any other snow condition. For on road use, where most of the snow you encounter is packed or icy a highly siped tread design works best. All of those biting edges grab hold and provide the traction you need. Even in deeper snow with a packed base, this is a good choice - provided the snow isn't too deep, you can dig through to the packed base and get the traction you need.

The shear strength of the snow does have an effect on your traction level. If the snow can sustain the shear, it is desirable for the tread to get packed with snow as this can provide a bit of traction. Lots of sipes allow for snow to get packed into a lot of places.

Once you get into the deepest snow, you will need a bit of flotation to keep from digging too deep, but it also helps to maximize your footprint area (lower pressure).

Chains will always be helpful whether in deep snow or packed snow. I'm not sure, but I'm thinking chains might be helpful in mud as well???

 

[Maverick]

I get all excited when I hear "shear strength" get used in a sentence. Thanks for explaining that a little better than I did.

Yes, chains are helpful in mud, at least in Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon and Washington, with some exceptions. No idea about Montana, Nevada and California. I'm not sure if Arizona and New Mexico get mud long enough that you could chain up and have it still be there. You'll have to ask someone else about mid-western, deep southern, and eastern mud.

I've chained up dozens of times just to cross a section of deep mud, particularly in a gully bottom.

That was after chaining up a few times IN a section of deep mud that I thought I could cross with speed and/or power and/or finesse and/or trickery/experience/attitude and/or all of the above.

I'm not sure how chains would do in the thick yet slick mud that adheres to your tires and layers up (like a snowball) until it gets peeled off by your fenders and makes big slimy donuts with your tires spinning inside. This happened most frequently on pipeline access roads west of Kemmerer, WY but has also happened to me in the mountains west of Utah Lake. I suppose with big HP, the chains would act like paddles or swampers there too.

 

[BlackDog]

I will try chains, 3 out of three times I have been stuck in mud, it was that, drove too close to the edge of a man made reservoir, other tracks were there, didn't stop and think about it logically (mud Acheson, rpm.... hello?), AT tread tires do not provide grip in that silty slickish mud that reeks of bovine fecal matter.

 

[Tacoma]

I was once stuck in about 3" of mud, and 4" of water, in the West Desert... Truck was sitting there, idling in 1st and 4lo, with unlocked axles..... spinning all 4 tires (BFG muds, I might add )

Eastern mud is not like that. You keep sinking, and stop moving, or you go forward. That was a real eye opener. It was like Teflon earth or something.

 

[Maverick]

LOL I was gonna mention a couple experiences like that, once in WY and once in WA. Level ground, 1-2" of mud. Left it idling in gear, all 4 tires slowly spinning. Walked around it a couple times. In WY, mashing the throttle and working the wheel got me out. The time in WA took a strap.