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Big Brother BLM

anderson750

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
I am putting up a copy of a post from another website that a good friend of mine put up. I was with him this past weekend when this event was brought to our attention. Keep in mind that the new RMP's have some wording in them as to what their (BLM) interpretation of what "organized" is.

If you want to read more on it from this site, you can go to:
http://www.motoutah.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=30&func=view&catid=13&id=53694


I'm going to be vague in this post....so you'll just have to trust me on this one.
BIG Brother BLM is watching and listening to club websites and converstations on forums such as MotoUtah.
A couple weeks ago one of the clubs that I am a member of had scheduled a trail ride. Just an average trail ride on public lands, to enjoy "open" trails that are 100% legal to ride. There were 7 riders that showed up for this "organized" ride. There were also 2 BLM Rangers that showed up with their citation book in hand. They threatened to issue a citation to the Ride Leader if he followed through with his plans. The BLM Field Office that sent these Rangers had contacted the Ride Leader a few weeks prior and informed him that the "club" would need to apply for a permit. The Ride Leader explained that he knew the laws and regulations very well, and that he did not agree that a permit was required for a non-competitive, non-commercial, club trail ride on legal trails. Then, the night before the ride, the BLM contacted the Ride Leader again. This time telling him that they had decided a permit WAS definitely needed, but now there wasn't time for him to get one. The BLM explained that since this ride had been "organized" and advertised to the public on the club's website, it DID require a Permit. Once again, Big Brother BLM insisted that the ride could NOT take place. The morning of the ride, at the advertised trail head there were 7 riders ready for a fun day.....until 2 BLM Rangers showed up with ticket book in hand. They once again threatened to cite the Ride Leader if he followed through with his "organized" ride.
Outcome = The Ride Leader loaded up and left. The others rode around without a guide in an "un-organized" manner.
I have more examples of this "monitoring" and interference by BLM. One involved me and the website geocaching.com. The other involved an ATV club that I belong to and a club "trail ride" in the San Rafael. In each of these situations, Big Brother BLM monitored the websites, gathered the information, called the contact person and either asked for more information or as in the case above, told the Ride Leader that their ride needed a "permit".
With the 5 RMPs that were just signed into law, and the other Field Offices in Utah working on theirs.......things are going to get very interesting in the next few years.
AJP
 
Greg

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
Location
Grand Junction, CO
I ran into part of this group the day of the ride in Gateway, CO. I was on a solo ride from Fruita to Moab & back. They were disgusted with how this entire deal went down, the BLM pulled some dirty tricks IMO.
 
Olaf

Olaf

Active Member
Supporting Member
Location
Orange County, CA
We've had similar issues here in CA. Some clubs have switched verbage to "...hey we're meeting here at this time if you want to come along..."
 
cruiseroutfit

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
Let them get the ticket, then it can actually get some traction. The RMP final decision has clear stipulations as to what requires a permit and what does not, the BLM must have felt the criteria was met. I would love to see a judge cite 7 riders for having a commercial event lol
 
G

great scott

Well-Known Member
Location
Carbonvil/Price Utah
I have had a similar experience of witch they must have been watching this board. This was first time the King Crawlers host a U4 run. Monday after the event I received a friendly phone call from the BLM asking how things went. Soon the questions became very pointed and even acquisitional. Grilling me on every thing from what trails, to how many heads on each trail, to where we ate dinner.
 
Z

Zombie

Random Dead Guy
Location
Sandy Utah
cruiseroutfit said:
Let them get the ticket, then it can actually get some traction. The RMP final decision has clear stipulations as to what requires a permit and what does not, the BLM must have felt the criteria was met. I would love to see a judge cite 7 riders for having a commercial event lol
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that the new RMPs went into effect in January?

This is freakin creepy.
 
Badger

Badger

I am the Brute squad
Location
South Salt Lake
Looks like forums might need to create a user only section in the forum for up coming get togethers. Granted this is not going to entirely stop it but will help in cutting down. When they are only logged on as a guest and can not access the info. They could create an account to be logged in to see it. But if you are required to log in would it still be considered advertised on a public board? Or would it then be private?
 
anderson750

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
Also keep in mind that this is a public forum and "anything we say can and will be used against us". Not only do you have BLM officials watching, you have people from SUWA watching for anything they can use against us in their propeganda.
 
anderson750

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
scoutabout said:
Has this been experienced outside of the Price office, or is that the only place where this has happened so far?
Click to expand...

This particular instance that is referenced in this thread is out of the Moab field office. But there have been a few instances out of the Price field office that I know of. This goes back a couple of years, but it was an event some what like this that caused the CCOHVA to pull down their web site and go to email only contact as far as organizing rides.

Also remember, each field office has different guidelines in their RMP. What is in the Moab RMP is probably different than Price, Richfield, etc.
 
Greg

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
Location
Grand Junction, CO
Badger said:
Looks like forums might need to create a user only section in the forum for up coming get togethers. Granted this is not going to entirely stop it but will help in cutting down. When they are only logged on as a guest and can not access the info. They could create an account to be logged in to see it. But if you are required to log in would it still be considered advertised on a public board? Or would it then be private?
Click to expand...

I know of other forums where the BLM employees are registered and participate with discussion.
 
D

Don B

formerly rebarguy
Location
Southern Utah
scoutabout said:
Has this been experienced outside of the Price office, or is that the only place where this has happened so far?
Click to expand...

We had a similar incident happen in Kanab about three years ago. Basically it was a rogue ranger pushing his agenda rather than the Field Office personel that did it. He harrassed us as we were gathering for a club ride. He was trying to intimidated us by claiming we needed a permit. His rationale was that we were advertising to the public by having the ride on the Club website. He had a copy of the website that he printed off with him at the time.

This was not the only incident that this BLM employee was involved in. I made official complaints to the Field Office and also the State BLM Office. This person no longer works out of the Kanab Field Office, but still works for BLM and was recently transfered to the Monticello Field Office.

The new RMP for the Kanab FO went into effect Oct.31 st. The requirements for Special Recreation Permits are much worse then before. Basically if the person in charge doesn't like you, forget about any kind of organized event. I'm hoping that BRC follows through with their efforts with the Sate BLM Office to modify the SRP requirements or it will probably end up in a court case brought on by individual citizens
 
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