Boycott Cabelas and LLBean

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
Did you happen to read the any of the posts besides the first ones?

My post:
Sadly, its a lose-lose situation for Cabelas. Not only do they supposedly support TU, they do support Tread Lightly. So they are supporting both sides of the issues. Not direct foes, but in some respects they are. Regardless, I'm all for supporting your opinions and writing Cabelas and voicing them.

I wouldn't go as far as to boycott them... that would be a spit in their face after majorly funding the Tread Lightly (pro-motorized) campaign.

I'll still be shopping there...
 

Badger

I am the Brute squad
Location
South Salt Lake
So they are stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Pick a side and stick with it.I tend not to shop there because they are usually over priced.

Of course writing them a letter or email may go along way in swaying their decision on which way to go.Bringing this to the attention of others is a good idea as far as I see it.
 
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Bart

Registered User
Location
Arm Utah
I'm glad to hear they are at least not one sided on this. Many years back I had a heated exchange of conversations with REI and ended up telling them where they could stick my membership. They were so over the top SUWA and Sierra Club it wasn't funny.
 

Spork

Tin Foil Hat Equipped
I'm torn, what if I like trout and I like 4-wheeling? :hickey:

Maybe Cabela's has a desire to support whoever provides them business. I seem to remember a 4wheeler section and I also remember a fishing section... They might even support Ducks unlimited. :eek:

I haven't looked at the thread on pirate (work filters and pirate make me nervous).

Sorry the post is kind of random, But I don't have an issue with them supporting more than one organization. It's possible that Tread lightly and Trout unlimited agree on some items and disagree on others.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
They are stupid for wanting to protect fish habitat?

I know its a slippery slope, but do you honestly think they sell more 4x4 related product than they do fishing gear? They have a vested interest in the conservation of fisheries... just as they have a vested interest in the conservation of motorized travel areas, hence supportiong a conservation minded pro-motorized group such as Tread Lightly.

I don't know all the specifics on the Tellico situation, but it appears to me the Forest Service really dropped the ball. TU has been bringing the issue to their attention for 5+ years now, rather then act and keep the trails running with some minor changes (culverts, bridges, re-routes), they left it as-is. The same situation could/might happen in AF Canyon with the Forest Lake Trail... TU has been active in that canyon for several years (they were behind the Pacific cleanup), I know they have submitted information to the FS on Forest Lake on several occastions. Time will only tell...

Response from LL-Bean

Thank you for contacting L.L.Bean regarding our sponsorship with Trout
Unlimited. We have been supporters of Trout Unlimited since 1981 and
have always had great confidence in their resource management approaches
to support sporting interests.

We were unaware of the situation between Trout Unlimited and OHV trail
issue in the Tellico watershed, and we appreciate your bringing it to
our attention. We contacted Trout Unlimited in order for us to have an
understanding of the situation, and they shared the following
information with us:

"The notice of intent against the US Forest Service is not against OHV
recreationists. The intent is to hold the Forest Service to its legal
duty to abide by water quality laws, both federal and state, and to
abide by its own established regulations. Trout Unlimited did not choose
to file the notice of intent on the spur of the moment, it was the only
remaining alternative after years of fruitless, exhaustive negotiations.
The number of trail miles in the Tellico watershed vastly exceeds the
trail miles that were established under the FS management plan for that
area, in addition to the national standards for trail density. The
current trail miles are more than double the mileage allowed under the
current forest plan for the Nantahala and Cherokee Forests. I am sure
many of those trails were cut in by people who aren't responsible OHV
recreationists. The FS turned a blind eye while new trails were
illegally built without an inclusive, public process for comment and
engagement to discuss these dramatic changes to the original plan.

This watershed is also one of the last remaining brook trout populations
in NC and TN that was rated as having significant surviving populations
by the Eastern Brook Trout Joint Venture in their Status and Threats
report on eastern brook trout. I'm sure there is a way that we can all
work together to solve this situation where we can eliminate the threat
to the water quality and trout populations, while at the same time
providing OHV recreation. They have recently measured sediment loads in
these streams at levels 500-1,000 times higher than similar streams in
reference watersheds nearby. Some areas with trails right next to the
stream were contributing 59 tons of additional sediment per year, which
drastically affects trout reproduction and survivability."

L.L.Bean is fully committed to the sporting interests of our customers,
and we offer charitable contributions to non-profit organizations to
help advance those interests. While L.L.Bean does not have a position
in this matter, we continue to be confident in their approach.

We appreciate your taking the time to contact us. You are a valued
customer and your opinion is important to us. We hope you will allow us
to be of service to you in the near future.
 
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cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
.... It's possible that Tread lightly and Trout unlimited agree on some items and disagree on others.

Not only possible, its also very true. Tread Lightly worked with alot of animal/eco conservation groups to develop their curriculm, especially regarding travel amongst wildlife, river crossings and care in riparian areas. You can't bite that hand that feeds you ;)
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
I'm glad to hear they are at least not one sided on this. Many years back I had a heated exchange of conversations with REI and ended up telling them where they could stick my membership. They were so over the top SUWA and Sierra Club it wasn't funny.

Still very true. And not only will they not support an OHV oriented conservation group... one can't consider SUWA/Sierra Club a conservation group, they are litigous lobby groups. As a whole I take no issues with TU, nor DU or the Rocky Mtn Elk Foundation either... in fact there are dozens of convervation minded groups that have likely opposed OHV's in some form over the years. Comprimise...
 

themaniam1

Just Empty Every Pocket
Location
Syracuse, Ut
I am fine with Cabelas supporting both groups, I fish, hunt, camp, hike and wheel. If all it takes is some bridges, culverts and trail errosion maintenance then TU is right to go after the FS for being such slackers. To bad they (the Forest Service) make the OHV riders look bad, though I suspect it is ATVs more then our rigs that use those trails.

We should make sure that the trails we ride also do not cause any stream and habitat degredation. Is that a concern in AF canyon? That is part of why I love the trails we ride.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
...Is that a concern in AF canyon? That is part of why I love the trails we ride.

Just with the Forest Lake Trail AFAIK... though last I head the jury was still out on wether or not the problem needs addressing. If a bridge is needed over the river, I am 100% confident the U4WDA and FS can work something out, we now have a member club (Utah 4x4 Club) sponsoring that trail, so they will constantly be in the loop with the FS regarding potential issues.
 

RKCRWLR

Active Member
Location
Sandy, UT
I don't know all the specifics on the Tellico situation, but it appears to me the Forest Service really dropped the ball. TU has been bringing the issue to their attention for 5+ years now, rather then act and keep the trails running with some minor changes (culverts, bridges, re-routes), they left it as-is. [/I]

These are the situations where things get really complicated. I can tell you as a Jeep guy, flyfisherman and one who has wheeled Tellico many times, that Tellico is an unusual situation. I have fought road closures for many years and openly support mechanized recreation. But Tellico always left me uncomfortable. Erosion there is very bad. There are trails that litereally are a ditch deeper than the height of my Jeep and barely wider. It finally came to the point my wife and I significantly limited our visits there. And we will not run it in the rain, as many there love to do. For me, its still comes down to "sustainable use", a phrase the USFS and a lot of stake holders seem to have forgot. We as a mechanized community can not support the willing destruction of sensitive environments and still expect our position to be supported by the general public. If we are going to win the access issue in the long run, we have to support sustainable use decisions on those rare occaisions when they legitamately go against us.

USFS needs to allow work to be done to minimize impact at Tellico. And the offroad community needs to realize that accelerators pressed to the floor to see how much mud can be flung is not going to work on public lands. I think most here, and I have run with several of you, would be concerned if you saw how bad it can get in Tellico. Address the roads along the river and focus on lowering impact, or it will be gone. It crossed my mind several years ago while visiting Tellico, that they were going to sacrifice that area to demonstrate why mechanized use should be banned. Its still crossing my mind.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
These are the situations where things get really complicated. I can tell you as a Jeep guy, flyfisherman and one who has wheeled Tellico many times, that Tellico is an unusual situation. I have fought road closures for many years and openly support mechanized recreation. But Tellico always left me uncomfortable. Erosion there is very bad. There are trails that litereally are a ditch deeper than the height of my Jeep and barely wider. It finally came to the point my wife and I significantly limited our visits there. And we will not run it in the rain, as many there love to do. For me, its still comes down to "sustainable use", a phrase the USFS and a lot of stake holders seem to have forgot. We as a mechanized community can not support the willing destruction of sensitive environments and still expect our position to be supported by the general public. If we are going to win the access issue in the long run, we have to support sustainable use decisions on those rare occaisions when they legitamately go against us.

USFS needs to allow work to be done to minimize impact at Tellico. And the offroad community needs to realize that accelerators pressed to the floor to see how much mud can be flung is not going to work on public lands. I think most here, and I have run with several of you, would be concerned if you saw how bad it can get in Tellico. Address the roads along the river and focus on lowering impact, or it will be gone. It crossed my mind several years ago while visiting Tellico, that they were going to sacrifice that area to demonstrate why mechanized use should be banned. Its still crossing my mind.

Excellent post... I appreciate your firsthand opinion. Sounds like Tellico is a hurting place... Wish I could say I've been there.
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
I think most here, and I have run with several of you, would be concerned if you saw how bad it can get in Tellico.

I have this basic opinion every where I've been. Shoudl explain that better... I think the trails I have visited in Utah are the cleanest and most well maintained that I have been on in at least the last 5 years that I can think of.

I remember a few years back, I went down to Calico and I couldn't help but thinking what a sh~t hole the locals have turned that place into. All of the trash tossed about.... I see that all over the place. Even up here on the *extreme trails* (FS roads:rolleyes:).
 

RKCRWLR

Active Member
Location
Sandy, UT
I have this basic opinion every where I've been. Shoudl explain that better... I think the trails I have visited in Utah are the cleanest and most well maintained that I have been on in at least the last 5 years that I can think of.

I remember a few years back, I went down to Calico and I couldn't help but thinking what a sh~t hole the locals have turned that place into. All of the trash tossed about.... I see that all over the place. Even up here on the *extreme trails* (FS roads:rolleyes:).

I agree completely. Utah is doing a very good job with the trail system, and I think its in no small part credit to both the efforts of U4, the local clubs, this and other forums, and the responsibility the mechanized community has taken. In 26 years of "off highway" driving, I have met only a handfull who are intentially destructive. None of them have been in Utah.
 

projektdotnet

Cruiserhead
Location
Layton
For me, its still comes down to "sustainable use", a phrase the USFS and a lot of stake holders seem to have forgot. We as a mechanized community can not support the willing destruction of sensitive environments and still expect our position to be supported by the general public. If we are going to win the access issue in the long run, we have to support sustainable use decisions on those rare occaisions when they legitamately go against us.

I like this part of rkcrwlr's post the best. The more I read up on public land use issues the more I realize that some of the stuff I did when I started 4x4 hurt the cause and now I feel bad about it. I hope that I see more posts like this so that I can learn what responsible wheeling is truely about.

Thanks Rkcrwlr!
 

allterrain

AllTerrain
Location
Cedar Hills
I'm glad to hear they are at least not one sided on this. Many years back I had a heated exchange of conversations with REI and ended up telling them where they could stick my membership. They were so over the top SUWA and Sierra Club it wasn't funny.

That reminds me of a time a few years ago that I decided to try a little covert operation at REI. We were doing a trail cleanup, multiple bypass block and tree planting operation in AF Canyon (many of you will remember).
I was gathering different sponsor donated things like sodas and food and decided to go ask REI to donate some gear- just for kicks (and I think Big SGT or EZ may have dared me).
I met with the store manager in Sandy just after they opened and laid out our plan and all the people that would be there, the trees donated by Snowbird, the illegal trail bypasses and braids we would block, the cooperation with the FS, stream crossing protection, trail restoration and on and on. I spun a story as green as a Kentucky meadow and he was eating it up and wanting to give us a load of gear. Then he asked what U4WDA was and that's where we ran into a little problem...
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
That reminds me of a time a few years ago that I decided to try a little covert operation at REI. We were doing a trail cleanup, multiple bypass block and tree planting operation in AF Canyon (many of you will remember).
I was gathering different sponsor donated things like sodas and food and decided to go ask REI to donate some gear- just for kicks (and I think Big SGT or EZ may have dared me).
I met with the store manager in Sandy just after they opened and laid out our plan and all the people that would be there, the trees donated by Snowbird, the illegal trail bypasses and braids we would block, the cooperation with the FS, stream crossing protection, trail restoration and on and on. I spun a story as green as a Kentucky meadow and he was eating it up and wanting to give us a load of gear. Then he asked what U4WDA was and that's where we ran into a little problem...

See...That just bugs me. Here you are cleaning up a mess, doing the responsible thing, but since they are against U4WDA, they gave you the cold shoulder. :cody: How many times has the off road community helped SUWA or any of their members. THis would be like finding a hurt mountain biker/hiker on the trails, pulling up and seeing his SUWA sticker and leaving him behind. What a crock...And we're the bad guys! At least we're human and give a **** about humanity. All they care about is shutting everything down at any cost. Talk about tunnel vision....
 
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