Buying a Used Car from a dealer

[Deleted member 12904]

I have some questions about the fees I should expect from buying a used car from a dealer. My mother in law is buying her 16 year old son his first rig. We are looking for a Jeep Cherokee in the $5k range. For some reason she is only interested in buying from a dealer even though she is paying cash.

But if anyone has a line on a clean XJ in that price range hit me up.

First thing I have noticed is dealers seem to list everything WAY over NADA Clean Retail Book Value. And from the dealers I have talked to in the past couple days they wont budge on price. What gives? Is NADA not an accurate guide on value anymore?

Second What fees should we expect to pay?

Sales TAX - 6.85
Title - $6.00 ?
Registration - ? Big question here the DMV web site shows Uniform fees that are not comparable to what I pay on my vehicles?
New Plates - $10.00 ?
Driver ed fee - 2.50?
Uninsured motorist - $1.00
Safety Inspection - $15.00
Emissions -$28.00 ?
Dealer Doc Fee - Seems Utah has no cap What's a fair doc Fee? $75.00 ?

 

[jeeper]

Ive never found NADA to be accurate.

 

[sixstringsteve]

dealers don't like cash, they like financing. You'll actually end up "paying more" (at least sticker price) for the vehicle if you pay cash.

 

[Kevin B.]

Those are all the reasons that buying from a dealer sucks. When you go private party, the seller just wants to not take a bath, but dealers want to cover their overhead and make a little money too. They make that money off people like your MIL who are scared to buy private party.

 

[Cascadia]

Nada is what banks go off of. I don't know what dealers go off of for selling but they don't go off of nada for trade ins. They do something like nada trade in value minus 60%. Seems like that's what they offer. Except Dempseys dealership was pretty close.

 

[Deleted member 12904]

Ive never found NADA to be accurate.

So in your experience and NADA values are low?

For example we are looking at a 2000 Jeep Cherokee sport with 138,000 miles and NADA list clean retail at about $4700 The dealer has it listed at $5999 it's a pretty clean jeep but it still shows it's age with a small oil leak tires that will need to replace this year, bad struts on the liftgate, some flaking paint showing the gray sealer in a few spots. But that being said out of the four or five that we've looked at in the same range it's by far the cleanest. I just have a hard time thinking that's a $6000 jeep

 

[Deleted member 12904]

looking the same jeep up on KBB it shows fair purchase price on that jeep @ $4600 and full retail at $5500 and in my experience KBB has always been high on price.

Is the value of jeep Cherokees high in our area? Even privet party sales seem high compared to book value.

 

[jeeper]

So in your experience and NADA values are low?

No I find them High... But I do buy low end vehicles..

 

[nnnnnate]

My neighbor has his Cherokee 4 door for sale. $4500 I think. They haven't driven it for 5 months probably, I'm pretty certain it has never been offroad. I can get you the info if you want it and would guess since they've been trying to sell it for a while they'd lower the price on it.

Edit: Found it on streetview.

 

[ID Bronco]

Values in your area are driven by sales in your area of comparable vehicles. Dealers will often have a higher sticker price, but when you are finished negotiating it may be much more inline with what you see online. Here in Idaho doc fees range between $75-500 depending upon the dealership. My brothers lot is about $250 ish I think.

Dealers are not the devil, they sell to most of the public and have to run a business and cover overhead and such. Many of the folks on here are more auto savvy than most and don't need what a dealership provides (or at least is perceived to provide -as with your Mother)

They are worth what someone will pay for them. Don't be afraid to start low with a dealer.

 

[Deleted member 12904]

My neighbor has his Cherokee 4 door for sale. $4500 I think. They haven't driven it for 5 months probably, I'm pretty certain it has never been offroad. I can get you the info if you want it and would guess since they've been trying to sell it for a while they'd lower the price on it.

Edit: Found it on streetview.

View attachment 97325

Awesome! I cant make the phone number. Can you get it for me please? Text me at 801.870.4109 if you can

 

[Deleted member 12904]

Never Mind I got ahold of her. Thanks for the help Im going to look at it tonight. This may be the deal we have been looking for

 

[TurboMinivan]

Since this was brought up, I thought I should explain a few things.

First thing I have noticed is dealers seem to list everything WAY over NADA Clean Retail Book Value. And from the dealers I have talked to in the past couple days they wont budge on price. What gives? Is NADA not an accurate guide on value anymore?

At the low end of the market (ie, very low priced and/or older vehicles), book value becomes further from what you'll really see. Why is that? Because the dealers are now ignoring book and simply starting from the "bottom" and working their way up. In other words, they look at what they paid for the vehicle, then they add in their costs of reconditioning, then add on their required amount of profit, and that's the sales price. If that figure is over book value, well, that's just how it is. Since older, high mileage vehicles often need significant maintenance and/or repair, it is extremely difficult to buy such a car from a dealer and still fall within book value... unless you buy it as-is or with the knowledge that some/all of these repairs have not been completed.

Second What fees should we expect to pay?

Sales tax, license and registration, and the dealer doc fee. Anything in addition to these has been added by the dealer to pad their bottom line.

the DMV web site shows Uniform fees that are not comparable to what I pay on my vehicles?

Sales tax is set by the location of the dealer (not the buyer's address). License/registration/plate fees are set by the DMV and are fixed, though it is common for some dealers to round those numbers up in an attempt to pad their bottom line without you noticing. (Example: the required $149 registration fee is listed as $199 instead.)

Seems Utah has no cap What's a fair doc Fee? $75.00 ?

By Utah law, dealers can charge whatever they want for a doc fee. The catch is that every customer all year long must pay the exact same fee--it cannot be altered or waived. This is why I always laugh when someone tells me, "yeah, well, I don't pay a doc fee and Dealer X always waives it for me." The tax commission audits us on this, and they fine us $10,000 for each infraction... so, no, we aren't waiving that fee (and neither did the dealer that lied and said they did).

Anyway, our doc fee is $239. I know many dealers that charge over $300 and some that charge $400+.

Edit: Found it on streetview.

 

[thefirstzukman]

My doc fee is $125, pretty much anything else is my cost. For instance aged base tax, sales tax,licence fee, safety and emissions ect. I sold my Dad a 4 runner this weekend so the numbers are fresh in my head, $15775 for the 4 runner $17238 out the door.
I have always found the cherokee to be under value around here, I have one that I took in on trade that I wonder if I am too expensive on but its under book.

Most dealership I have worked with and me personally will just look at average MMR on the car and cut that a little, no need to pay more than the auction average on a trade in... give me a vin # and mileage and I will give you a reasonable trade in value.

I love cash, I don't deal with any finance companies that do normal financing. The only financing I do is high risk or in house if the deal is right.

 

[SAMI]

You don't want to buy a vehicle that old from a dealer. They got it on trade for $500 value, or picked it up from auction for $1,000, put $1,000 into it (at best) and are trying to sell it for more than double what they're into it.

Pelygroso on here just bought a '99 Cherokee for under $2,500 that would be a perfect 16y/o first vehicle. Runs awesome, body in great shape for the age and the motor is solid.

The vehicles are out there from private sellers. Don't buy this vehicle from the dealer. Bad.

 

[ricsrx]

Dealers put money into a vehicle that they received on trade???

not if they are trying to make money... and I don't know any dealers that are non profit....

 

[nnnnnate]

Wasn't on last night but am glad you were able to get ahold of them.

 

[TurboMinivan]

Dealers put money into a vehicle that they received on trade???

not if they are trying to make money...

It sounds like you're thinking of any number of tiny used car lots that dot State Street. For us large, reputable dealerships, we spend money on trade-ins every day. The only exception is for vehicles which we dump on a wholesaler, though even then we often paid a tech to look it over to see if it was worth keeping, which (surprise!) means we spent money on it.

 

[Deleted member 12904]

Wasn't on last night but am glad you were able to get ahold of them.

I went and drove it last night. It has a handful of minor issues but we came up with a fair price. Im meeting them at 3:30 today to look at it in the day light and unless I find anything major I missed last night we plan on buying it.

Thanks again for putting that jeep on my radar I think it a should be a good one. Now my brother in lay is sending me pictures of what we need to do to it. Guess I will be parts shopping next.

 

[nnnnnate]

Awesome. I'd walk over but didn't get out of bed this morning and need to work until 4.

Did you say anything about how you found the rig? Tell them they owe the Ropers a finders fee treat.