crawler dude12
Active Member
- Location
- Orem
Well I have some gears moving on picking up a cj5 but I don't feel comfortable driving it home. So does anyone have a car dolly I can borrow? Sometime this week? I can probably give you a little cash.
Car dolly to use
- Thread starter crawler dude12
- Start date
crawler dude12
Active Member
- Location
- Orem
I am in orem the jeep is in price. I have a 2000 chevy silverado 1500 I can tow with. I just don't have a dolly or trailer to use. It hasn't been registered lately
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
Normally for things close by and heck, even break downs 1000 miles away, we all do this stuff for free.
I've got a strap-on tow bar that was left on my trailer after the Rubicon trip 2 years ago that you can have if you want. I tried a couple times to give it to the owner (forgot his name). Just give it to another RME'er when you're done. (sixstringsteve, do you know whose it is?)
Or I have my 16' trailer for sale: http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?102842-16-PJ-trailer-for-sale
But since it's an acquisition and in Price, I suppose I could rent it for whatever dolly's are going for plus a deposit.
Can anyone vouch for this crawler dude12
I've got a strap-on tow bar that was left on my trailer after the Rubicon trip 2 years ago that you can have if you want. I tried a couple times to give it to the owner (forgot his name). Just give it to another RME'er when you're done. (sixstringsteve, do you know whose it is?)
Or I have my 16' trailer for sale: http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?102842-16-PJ-trailer-for-sale
But since it's an acquisition and in Price, I suppose I could rent it for whatever dolly's are going for plus a deposit.
Can anyone vouch for this crawler dude12
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crawler dude12
Active Member
- Location
- Orem
Sorry I'm trying to understand. (I'm slow tonight) I can or can not flat tow the jeep?
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
Depends on how legal you want to be.
If it's not registered, my understanding is that it can't touch the road. Seems like Bret has the same understanding.
That said, I've flat towed non-registered vehicles before...and was ok because I didn't get pulled over.
crawler dude12
Active Member
- Location
- Orem
Okay, well I am trying to decide what I want. I can buy this 77 cj5. From my point of view (little experience) it's a good deal. And from what I have been told about it is that it runs and drives. But it needs a gas tank and tail lights. It has a lot of rust on the body. I'm not looking for anything extremely nice. But then again not looking for something that Is not worth fixing. He wants 800 for it. Would it be worth it? Considering it will be a class project that I will drive to and from school. I just need some advice.
I don't know much about cj5's so i don't know what they are worth, any pictures of it? you could flat tow it like Brett (Maverick) said and hope you don't have to deal with any officers, make sure you have the proper lights to do it, but yea i think its suppose to be on a trailer if its not registered. Me personally, if i was looking for something cheap to work on and learn and use as a class project, it would probably be a cherokee, you can find those fairly cheap and with upgrades already done.
crawler dude12
Active Member
- Location
- Orem
crawler dude12
Active Member
- Location
- Orem
I think Cherokees are cool. But I would prefer a cj5 over a Cherokee.
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
You should post this on your other thread.
It sounds like a neat project, and CJ-5's are super cool, but not one I'd recommend to either of my high-school aged kids unless they had auto-shop class to work on it. A CJ isn't the greatest daily driver, especially in the winter. But I'm talking from a 46yo perspective. When I was that age, and judging from my 17yo, no problem. He drives a '90 YJ and sometimes my CJ (but my CJ is fuel-injected with a few other modern parts, good brakes, stout frame, etc)
A gas tank isn't cheap, and that's just the beginning. '77 CJ's have pretty crappy frames, and if you already know it's rusty, then it could be pretty BAD. Look for frame cracks everywhere, but especially at the spring mounts, body mounts, down the top and bottom of the frame, etc. Look for the mounts on the body to be rusted out, look at the firewall, especially where the clutch linkage and brake linkage mount. Look where the roll cage mounts.
What engine and transmission does it have? What axle gears? There were very few good combinations those years. The 304 V8 was nice, but typically had a 3-speed transmission with a sucky first gear and highway gears in the axle. You won't be bolting on 33's and crawling Hell's Revenge. The 258ci 6-cylinder had good low end torque but no top-end power and came with a 4-speed and crappy axle gears. Transfer cases were the Dana 20 with 2:1 low range, not that good unless you have a 454, a transmission with granny gear, or 5:38 axles.
Like I said, you oughta take this part of the discussion over to your other thread.
It sounds like a neat project, and CJ-5's are super cool, but not one I'd recommend to either of my high-school aged kids unless they had auto-shop class to work on it. A CJ isn't the greatest daily driver, especially in the winter. But I'm talking from a 46yo perspective. When I was that age, and judging from my 17yo, no problem. He drives a '90 YJ and sometimes my CJ (but my CJ is fuel-injected with a few other modern parts, good brakes, stout frame, etc)
A gas tank isn't cheap, and that's just the beginning. '77 CJ's have pretty crappy frames, and if you already know it's rusty, then it could be pretty BAD. Look for frame cracks everywhere, but especially at the spring mounts, body mounts, down the top and bottom of the frame, etc. Look for the mounts on the body to be rusted out, look at the firewall, especially where the clutch linkage and brake linkage mount. Look where the roll cage mounts.
What engine and transmission does it have? What axle gears? There were very few good combinations those years. The 304 V8 was nice, but typically had a 3-speed transmission with a sucky first gear and highway gears in the axle. You won't be bolting on 33's and crawling Hell's Revenge. The 258ci 6-cylinder had good low end torque but no top-end power and came with a 4-speed and crappy axle gears. Transfer cases were the Dana 20 with 2:1 low range, not that good unless you have a 454, a transmission with granny gear, or 5:38 axles.
Like I said, you oughta take this part of the discussion over to your other thread.
crawler dude12
Active Member
- Location
- Orem
My bad for getting off topic.
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
That looks like the 258. Probably has the 4-speed transmission (3.9 first gear?), Dana 20 transfer case with 2:1 low, sucky Model20 rear axle with 3.54 gears, for a whopping crawl ratio of 27:1. Cool factor will be off the chart, especially in the summer, but your buddy in his automatic Cherokee will blow you away on the way to the Snakes or Moab, have lower overall gears, a windshield he can see through in the winter, and his girlfriend will be willing to ride in it more than once.
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
crawler dude12
Active Member
- Location
- Orem
So you think I should pass and just pick up a Cherokee?
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
That's the advice I'd give my kid. Most decent CJ-5's that I see these days are driven by a 50-something guy that has dropped $10-20K into it. My neighbor did a similar restore on one of these a few years ago, rebuilt everything but dropped in a small block chevy. The rest are clapped-out death-traps waiting for Pewe to fly in and tease it back to SoCal for a dirt-every-day magazine article (which actually sounds kind of fun).
But you're not my kid, and I don't know the rest of your situation (family support, shop, available time and money, etc) Sound like you've got the fire and the interest to make it happen, and someone's support, based on the '00 chev 1500 available to tow with.
A couple of friends had 5's when we were seniors in high school and for a while after. We rallied the **** out of them and we had a ball. Took them to St. George for spring break one year, actually two years. Crappy gears, no heat, sloppy steering. We didn't care, it was cool and with enough gas pedal, we climbed and bounced our way through quite a few places. One had a 6 with a 4 speed, and one had the V8 and 3-speed. Didn't really matter, both had 15 gallon tanks and we had to stop for gas a lot. But with the top off and tunes up, who cared.
I hate to be buzzkill and ruin a good project and restoring a great classic 4x4. So I won't.
But I will tell you what I have done so far, and for my boys.
I have an '81 CJ, but it's a bad example because I was never that interested in having it be a daily driver; I hurried and slapped full-width axles on it, 38's and then dealt with all the rusted out crap for years until some friends intervened (Extreme Scrambler Makeover) The '77 CJ-5 that you describe doesn't sound much different than the CJ I started out with. We literally started over in '08 and the only thing from the original CJ is the windshield wiper motor.
I picked up a Sammy and parts for my oldest for about $1500. 3" springs, rear locker, 4.16:1 case, 30" tires. For other reasons I ended up selling it, but it was legit and would have been a good rig.
I picked up a '90 YJ for another son for $2400, it already had a rear locker, 3" lift, 33's, 4:1 case and a 4cyl w/ exhaust leak. He and I stuck a locker up front, fixed a couple of items, and have done a few trails together. He was "ok" with a Cherokee, but really wanted the open top CJ/YJ/TJ.
Around the same time, I picked up a '90 blazer for $1500 that needed axles and a couple bolts tightened in the steering column. Found some axles on KSL for $150, used 35" tires for $500, H2 rims for a couple hundred, etc. Total investment $3300, including a new radiator. (I use it to clear snow, but it would make an awesome car for a high school kid, or anyone else really).
For the next kid I'm looking at XJ Cherokees, mainly because of bang for the buck. I want it to run most of the time, expecting a few hiccups now and then. He's not interested in working on cars. I want to spend what little free time I have playing, not wrenching...but sometimes wrenching IS playing. If my kid was into wanting a project, then I'd consider an old CJ, and plan on replacing just about everything. He's not, so I'm not.
What do you want? As I recall from your other post, a basic 4x4 that you can drive to school. You've talked about Rangers, Samurai's, 4-runners and now CJ-5's. (And XJ Cherokees that people keep suggesting). Go check out some of these different rigs and test drive them. I remember driving some old jeeps and pickups when I was in high-school looking for the same thing and a couple of those scared the crap out of me. I learned a lot though.
Back to the CJ:
CJ-5: high cool factor, lots of wrenching and parts replacing. Very cool when it runs.
XJ: decent cool factor (not like CJ/YJ/TJ), a little wrenching, lots of driving. Oh, and being able to see through the windshield in the winter.
Whatever you get, you'll learn a lot by working on it. If you play it right, you could find a rig that just needs some work, fix it, learn from it, sell it and move up. It's not a right or wrong, you'll learn something in the process either way. If the CJ doesn't work out, you'll be able to sell it for $800.
But you're not my kid, and I don't know the rest of your situation (family support, shop, available time and money, etc) Sound like you've got the fire and the interest to make it happen, and someone's support, based on the '00 chev 1500 available to tow with.
A couple of friends had 5's when we were seniors in high school and for a while after. We rallied the **** out of them and we had a ball. Took them to St. George for spring break one year, actually two years. Crappy gears, no heat, sloppy steering. We didn't care, it was cool and with enough gas pedal, we climbed and bounced our way through quite a few places. One had a 6 with a 4 speed, and one had the V8 and 3-speed. Didn't really matter, both had 15 gallon tanks and we had to stop for gas a lot. But with the top off and tunes up, who cared.
I hate to be buzzkill and ruin a good project and restoring a great classic 4x4. So I won't.
But I will tell you what I have done so far, and for my boys.
I have an '81 CJ, but it's a bad example because I was never that interested in having it be a daily driver; I hurried and slapped full-width axles on it, 38's and then dealt with all the rusted out crap for years until some friends intervened (Extreme Scrambler Makeover) The '77 CJ-5 that you describe doesn't sound much different than the CJ I started out with. We literally started over in '08 and the only thing from the original CJ is the windshield wiper motor.
I picked up a Sammy and parts for my oldest for about $1500. 3" springs, rear locker, 4.16:1 case, 30" tires. For other reasons I ended up selling it, but it was legit and would have been a good rig.
I picked up a '90 YJ for another son for $2400, it already had a rear locker, 3" lift, 33's, 4:1 case and a 4cyl w/ exhaust leak. He and I stuck a locker up front, fixed a couple of items, and have done a few trails together. He was "ok" with a Cherokee, but really wanted the open top CJ/YJ/TJ.
Around the same time, I picked up a '90 blazer for $1500 that needed axles and a couple bolts tightened in the steering column. Found some axles on KSL for $150, used 35" tires for $500, H2 rims for a couple hundred, etc. Total investment $3300, including a new radiator. (I use it to clear snow, but it would make an awesome car for a high school kid, or anyone else really).
For the next kid I'm looking at XJ Cherokees, mainly because of bang for the buck. I want it to run most of the time, expecting a few hiccups now and then. He's not interested in working on cars. I want to spend what little free time I have playing, not wrenching...but sometimes wrenching IS playing. If my kid was into wanting a project, then I'd consider an old CJ, and plan on replacing just about everything. He's not, so I'm not.
What do you want? As I recall from your other post, a basic 4x4 that you can drive to school. You've talked about Rangers, Samurai's, 4-runners and now CJ-5's. (And XJ Cherokees that people keep suggesting). Go check out some of these different rigs and test drive them. I remember driving some old jeeps and pickups when I was in high-school looking for the same thing and a couple of those scared the crap out of me. I learned a lot though.
Back to the CJ:
CJ-5: high cool factor, lots of wrenching and parts replacing. Very cool when it runs.
XJ: decent cool factor (not like CJ/YJ/TJ), a little wrenching, lots of driving. Oh, and being able to see through the windshield in the winter.
Whatever you get, you'll learn a lot by working on it. If you play it right, you could find a rig that just needs some work, fix it, learn from it, sell it and move up. It's not a right or wrong, you'll learn something in the process either way. If the CJ doesn't work out, you'll be able to sell it for $800.
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crawler dude12
Active Member
- Location
- Orem
Thanks for the advice. Both my parents work for byu. My dad works in the auto shop and small engine dept. he has access to all the tools and lifts and such and said if we ever need to use them, as long as it does not interfere with what byu needs it for, we can use their equipment. (We just put new tires on for the truck there) home life right now is pretty bad. Parents were divorced about a year ago. They remarried 3 months later and i can see them falling apart again. Long story short, I found a job and I start work this week thinking about selling off my rc crawler stuff and saving up for a rig. And that. 4runner that one of the members here is selling, that's not half bad other than it needs a power steering pump, and in my opinion bigger tires. I guess I will have to save up and keep looking. Thanks again for all your peoples help. It means a lot.
TurboMinivan
Still plays with cars
- Location
- Lehi, UT
Sorry I'm late to the party, gang. Reading through this thread, I felt I ought to say a few things.
Great! Put some thought into this--it will only increase your ultimate satisfaction with whatever you purchase. Snap decisions involving "rough" vehicles that needs lots of work often end in disappointment.
You're obviously not looking for a show car (especially at your budget). Still, a low price in and of itself does not guarantee a good deal. An $800 Jeep that needs five grand put into it is a far worse deal than a $2500 Jeep which is a safe, dependable runner. Yes, the second choice has a higher initial outlay; if that's more money that you have right now, keep saving until you have that much. It will be very, very worth it in the long run.
One other thing. Throughout my car life, I have noticed a general rule of thumb that is worth mentioning here: body work costs more than engine work. There are two reasons for this. First, body work requires advanced skills and specialized tools (at least it does if you want the end result to look decent), whereas anyone with a Craftsman tool set and a shop manual can learn to properly rebuild an engine. Even if you end up farming out some of the work, having a mechanic build an engine will typically cost a whole lot less than having a body shop repair/repaint your car.
Second, body work often ends up requiring far, far more work than it initially appeared from the first glance... and this goes double when rust is involved. A simple gas tank installation might reveal rusted out mounting points, or rusted body panels could be hiding significant frame rot, etc. Bodywork surprises are usually expensive and unpleasant. By comparison, if you're planning on an engine rebuild then you've mentally budgeted for new pistons, replacing the crank and rods, etc up front. When rebuilding an engine, most of your surprises are pleasant ones--you find out the crank doesn't need to be replaced but can simply be turned, etc.
This is all very wise advice, and it's coming from someone who has learned it through experience. The old CJs are famous for rust. Just to add to this fact, one of my managers at work has an '81 CJ-5 which he has owned since 1985 or so. It, too, was completely rusting away. About five years ago, he finally decided to do something about it, so he dropped thousands of dollars and restored it. The only pieces of metal he was able to reuse were the grille and the dash board. Everything else was purchased brand new: entire frame, a new tub, a new rollbar, new seats and seat belts, and on and on and on. Of course while he was at it he also added an all new suspension front and rear, new wheels and 31" tires and such. He didn't actually touch the driveline, as the 301 V8 and 3-speed worked perfectly. The end result looks beautiful and it drives like new (probably better than new, actually) but I'm sure he sunk $15-$20k into it to make it so.
I'm very pro-Jeep, which means I have to be at least a little anti-Toyota (at least around here). Even still, a 4Runner with a solid body and a few mechanical issues would be a much wiser investment than a CJ-5 rust bucket.
Great! Put some thought into this--it will only increase your ultimate satisfaction with whatever you purchase. Snap decisions involving "rough" vehicles that needs lots of work often end in disappointment.
You're obviously not looking for a show car (especially at your budget). Still, a low price in and of itself does not guarantee a good deal. An $800 Jeep that needs five grand put into it is a far worse deal than a $2500 Jeep which is a safe, dependable runner. Yes, the second choice has a higher initial outlay; if that's more money that you have right now, keep saving until you have that much. It will be very, very worth it in the long run.
One other thing. Throughout my car life, I have noticed a general rule of thumb that is worth mentioning here: body work costs more than engine work. There are two reasons for this. First, body work requires advanced skills and specialized tools (at least it does if you want the end result to look decent), whereas anyone with a Craftsman tool set and a shop manual can learn to properly rebuild an engine. Even if you end up farming out some of the work, having a mechanic build an engine will typically cost a whole lot less than having a body shop repair/repaint your car.
Second, body work often ends up requiring far, far more work than it initially appeared from the first glance... and this goes double when rust is involved. A simple gas tank installation might reveal rusted out mounting points, or rusted body panels could be hiding significant frame rot, etc. Bodywork surprises are usually expensive and unpleasant. By comparison, if you're planning on an engine rebuild then you've mentally budgeted for new pistons, replacing the crank and rods, etc up front. When rebuilding an engine, most of your surprises are pleasant ones--you find out the crank doesn't need to be replaced but can simply be turned, etc.
This is all very wise advice, and it's coming from someone who has learned it through experience. The old CJs are famous for rust. Just to add to this fact, one of my managers at work has an '81 CJ-5 which he has owned since 1985 or so. It, too, was completely rusting away. About five years ago, he finally decided to do something about it, so he dropped thousands of dollars and restored it. The only pieces of metal he was able to reuse were the grille and the dash board. Everything else was purchased brand new: entire frame, a new tub, a new rollbar, new seats and seat belts, and on and on and on. Of course while he was at it he also added an all new suspension front and rear, new wheels and 31" tires and such. He didn't actually touch the driveline, as the 301 V8 and 3-speed worked perfectly. The end result looks beautiful and it drives like new (probably better than new, actually) but I'm sure he sunk $15-$20k into it to make it so.
I'm very pro-Jeep, which means I have to be at least a little anti-Toyota (at least around here). Even still, a 4Runner with a solid body and a few mechanical issues would be a much wiser investment than a CJ-5 rust bucket.