CCWs and LEOs

troutbum

cubi-kill
Location
SLC
I am curious to your experiences when getting pulled over/stopped while carrying?

Also, anyone ever been 'discovered' while carrying? say by a coworker?? or worse yet someone reaching for your gun because they see the bulge and don't know what it is?

Just curious as to the actual logistics of carrying.
 

Milner

formerly "rckcrlr"
troutbum said:
I am curious to your experiences when getting pulled over/stopped while carrying?

Also, anyone ever been 'discovered' while carrying? say by a coworker?? or worse yet someone reaching for your gun because they see the bulge and don't know what it is?

Just curious as to the actual logistics of carrying.

Not to sound like a dick, but if you are asking you probably shouldn't be carrying.... It is called concealed for a reason....
Sure if you know what to look for you may be able to tell, but if carried properly the average joe at work or on the street should not be able to tell. It is only a big deal for a coworker if you should not be carrying at work....
As for getting pulled over, they cover that in the class....
JMHO
 

Milner

formerly "rckcrlr"
As an example.
I have a friend that is a air marshall, he is about 6'1" and skinny as hell. He carries either a full size sig or a fullsize USP, and I can not tell "if" he is carrying at any given time. And this guy wears the tightest jeans you have ever seen :rolleyes:
 

troutbum

cubi-kill
Location
SLC
rckcrlr said:
Not to sound like a dick, but if you are asking you probably shouldn't be carrying....
My questions had nothing to do with if I should carry.
I am not carrying... but thanks for the tip :p

I have friends who carry and with an XD-40 subcompact with both an inside the pants or a small of the back carry I can occasionally tell , so figure it must happen. Just curious.

I also had a bad experience with a LEO and CCW, CCW tells the cop he is carrying the cop draws down on both of us....I am guessing this is extremely rare. Just wondering. :D
 
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spencurai

Vanilla Gorilla
Location
WVC,UT
If you get pulled over for speeding, there is no freaking reason in hell that you should be adding that kind of anxiety to an officer's day. Shut the hell up, as long as it remains conceiled, you don't need to divulge that kind of information...and please don't use your CCW as ID when you get pulled over.

Don't carry on federal property EVER as you might just donate your weapon and some organs to the government...I did security for the department of homeland security at the federal building in ogden, as a contract guard, we always perked up whenever some smartass used that ID to get in...CCW or not a gun in a stranger's hands is still a gun in a strangers hands, we were even required to escort police officers off property when they came in on personal business so they could secure their weapons in their vehicle.

The only time I would offer the information of a CCW permit is if your weapon gets recognized by a LEO because you couldn't keep it conceiled or if you were getting arrested and were carrying. You should never divulge that information.
 

troutbum

cubi-kill
Location
SLC
spencurai said:
If you get pulled over for speeding, there is no freaking reason in hell that you should be adding that kind of anxiety to an officer's day.

As already mentioned I don't carry, so I may not be as informed as those that do, but

packing.org said:
In some states (Utah and South Carolina are two) you must inform an LEO that you have a Permit/License and are carrying if approached by an Officer on Official Business. Stopped for a traffic violation etc. If you do not inform the LEO you are breaking the laws of that state.
what am I missing?
 

Bone Down

Well-Known Member
troutbum said:
Sound like or be?? My questions had nothing to do with if I should carry.
I am not carrying... but thanks for the tip :p

I have friends who carry and with an XD-40 subcompact with both an inside the pants or a small of the back carry I can occasionally tell , so figure it must happen. Just curious.

I also had a bad experience with a LEO and CCW, CCW tells the cop he is carrying the cop draws down on both of us....I am guessing this is extremely rare. Just wondering. :D

First off the Leo subject and how to handle such is covered in the class, if the officer drew down on you chances are it was after he asked for ID's that your friend mentioned CCW taking the officer by suprise.

I have been approched and even been standing around officers while CCW and not a one of them even knew it, I was even holding conversations with them.

However when you are in a situation as such that an officer has pulled you over or has requested ID at this point the officer is questioning you and when you present your ID you are suppose to hand them your CC P and keep your hands in plan clear view and let them handle the situation accordingly.

Now example Myself and a friend were pulled over (friend was driving), both of us are CC he is the only one that is asked for ID however I offered my CCP along with his DL and CC P officer simply asked were they were and said have a good day.

Another time my friend was pulled over and offered up the information and the officer simply handled (UHP this time) differently and asked him to pop the clip and unload the chamber then hand the officer the weapon until they was done. He gets pulled over a lot since he is here 6 months and in Oregon 6 months and has OR plates, mostly gets tagged for mud flaps.

Anyway long story short officers do not like suprises, provide them the info up front and chances are if you are civil the officer will run you to make sure no warrants and let you go, this has happened to me twice now and I thank them for it, fact is most officers don't mind that you are CCW as most that are generally are not a large threat to society, the back ground check alone to obtain the CCW is pretty deep and allows the officer a slight comfort to know that he is not pulling over a felon.
 

Fester

Active Member
My experience: I was pulled over for speeding (which I deserved), I gave the cop my info, and when he came back he asked if I had my permit on me. I said yes, then he asked if I was carrying, yes again, then he asked where it was, I told him the location, he said slow down and have a nice day.

Don't tell the officer that you are packing or that you have wicked karate skills or anything, it can be percieved as a threat. When they run your information they will know that you have a permit and possibly a gun.
 

troutbum

cubi-kill
Location
SLC
I looked it up since you guys were saying you don't notify LEOs

R722-300-13. Requirement to Notify Peace Officer When Stopped. said:
When a concealed firearm permit holder or certificate of qualification holder is stopped for questioning by a peace officer based on reasonable suspicion in accordance with Section 77-7-15 and the holder has a concealed firearm in his/her possession, the holder shall immediately advise the peace officer that he/she is a lawful holder and has a concealed firearm in his/her possession.

From http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r722/r722-300.htm#T13
 

Fester

Active Member
Wow. My instructor said no, and he was a LEO. Maybe things have changed since I took the class (been awhile) or else he didn't know sh!t. Thanks for the info.
 

Lazarus401

Old Time RME'r
Location
Vineyard, Utah
I have been dealing with firearms in multiple states for close to 10 years now. I dont beleive there is any law/rule or code in Utah that states "You are required to show your CCW Id with your drivers Id when you get pulled over", but it is strongly recommended as a preventative measure.

Two scenarios:

#1. You show your ID when you get pulled over, the PO asks you a couple of extra questions..Like..Where is it etc..he runs your DL, everything checks out, either writes you a ticket or lets you go. Every one is happy.

#2. You get pulled over, dont tell the PO you have a CCP. He takes your license back to his car to run it, then see on his own that you have a CCP. He may then think "Why did they not inform me, that they have this?" Comes back to your car extra cautious, and possibly drawn. He then asks you why you didnt inform him you have a CCP. And asks you to slowly step out of the car, and show him where it is located. And the scenario goes on from there.

i have spoken with a number of Highway Patrol as well as County Sheriffs, and so far they would all react better to this info if they knew it up front.

There are a number of Police Officers here, lets here your opinions.
 

Col Mustard

Registered User
The CCW course insures you know where you can and cannot carry as well as how to respond to an officer should you be stopped and questioned. Go to the BCI for the most current laws. Packing.org is also a great place to start for links to local government laws. It is however up to you to know the law. ex. the law states you can not carry in a govt bldg. This includes the Post Office. It also says when you have a CCW permit, the firearm is to remain concealed. There is a bit of a gray area though. Should you carry on the belt for instance and say you bend over to pick something up and the wind blows your shirt up a tad and your weapon is exposed, that wouldn't be considered brandishing. If you go up to your buddy and want to show off and pull your shirt back to say look what I have, then that's another story. It comes down to common sense.
If you get pulled over and you only give the officer your DL and not tell them you hold a CCW, they'll find out as soon as they run your DL and that may not be the suprise you want to give them. I react this way, I place my hands on the steering wheel in plain view and wait for the officer to ask for my license. I then tell him/her where my license is like "my license is in my wallet in my pants pocket and that I also hold a CCW and that I am either armed or unarmed". If I'm armed, I tell them where the firearm is and wait for the officer to instruct me on how to proceed. For me it's been calm. I was asked to provide both my license and CCW and after a check was allowed to move on.
Never draw your firearm unless you are in a situation where you are prepared to use it. Recently in the middle of the day in Draper, the owner of Totally Awesome Computers pulled his weapon because some residents had stopped him for racing down their streets. He got out of the car and because one person held up a rock, he drew on them. Not the correct choice. While I was in Charlotte NC, I was surrounded at night in a mall parking lot by 5 gangbangers who wanted my wallet. They continued to circle me, one had some shiny weapon in his hand and tried to back me in a dark area. After I told them several times very loudly to back off and I don't wan't to hurt you, I pulled my jacket back placing my hand on my holstered sidearm and that was enough to get them to give me space to leave. There is a requirement of retreat you have to follow and only you will know when or how far you can go before being pushed to that line. You have to assess the threat and make sure you have done everything possible to get out of the situation before resorting to producing a firearm. Something else is some states allow the use of a firearm to protect property. Utah does not.
There is so much to know that I wouldn't even attempt to cover here. Go to a CCW class with a certified instructor and get the most current and correct information. Carrying a firearm allows for greater protection but also carries it's liabilities. My work takes me all over the country and since my firearm goes with me, I always read up on the local laws of the city and state I'm going to before I get there. If I fly a different airline than normal, I always call to ask for their procedures for transporting firearms.
Hope this info helped.
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
END THE CONJECTURE!

relevant code has been posted. YES YOU ARE REQUIRED TO NOTIFY LEO"S.

now, to personal experience: while the law does not require me to notify officers that I have a CCW if I am NOT carrying, it is a great idea to do so anyway, because it comes up when they run your license, and guess what? next question, somewhat more edgy: "SIR ARE YOU CARRYING A WEAPON??"

Now that's just no fun. As the cops are not there to hassle me for CCW, I tell them whether the law requires me to or not. I think it's polite and certainly avoids a whole host of bad scenes that COULD take place if they were to find it later for some reason. Plus, almost every cop I've dealt with has been way cooler after I volunteer that information. Establishes a certain amount of "non-criminal status". Sadly, not always helpful when speeding LOL

my instructor was Terry Thompson of F.I.T. in Ogden, if memory serves he's a weapons instructor w/UHP, and taught a great class. I higly recommend him.
 

muleskinner

Well-Known Member
Location
Enoch, UT
spencurai said:
If you get pulled over for speeding, there is no freaking reason in hell that you should be adding that kind of anxiety to an officer's day. Shut the hell up, as long as it remains conceiled, you don't need to divulge that kind of information.

The only time I would offer the information of a CCW permit is if your weapon gets recognized by a LEO because you couldn't keep it conceiled or if you were getting arrested and were carrying. You should never divulge that information.

I was told when I took mine 10 years ago you had to tell them...
 

utahxjer

Well-Known Member
Tacoma said:
Plus, almost every cop I've dealt with has been way cooler after I volunteer that information. Establishes a certain amount of "non-criminal status". Sadly, not always helpful when speeding LOL .

I had someone say, "What you'd still give a speeding citation to someone who told you they had a CCW???!!!" He acted like if you had a CCW you were above the law :rolleyes:
 

Tacoma

Et incurventur ante non
Location
far enough away
yeah, that's pretty goofy. You're still speeding!

I'm for stricter training requirments here in UT, btw. The state requirments do not mandate much in the way of marksmanship, nor is there any provision for more realistic training. I'd like to see CCW classes taught at the live-fire houses all police departments should have. :D It's one thing to have a CCW, another to be able to use it when you need to. Drawing from concealment, use of cover, engaging targets etc etc would be nice to see on the list of requirements IMHO.
 

Bone Down

Well-Known Member
utahxjer said:
I had someone say, "What you'd still give a speeding citation to someone who told you they had a CCW???!!!" He acted like if you had a CCW you were above the law :rolleyes:

CCW does not entitle you to a get out of jail for free pass, but my two experiences and the validation of three more from a long long time friend of mine as well as a verteran sheriff that I know some will let you off unless you are a real turd to the officer and what you have done has a direct effect on some one else, but minor traffic infractions have yeilded myself and two of my friends good results, but notified the officer the second he asked for the DL, handed them the CCP and kindly waited to answer any questions they had.
 
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