Changes to trails @ EJS

[fourdoorjeep]

It is my understanding that only members that reside in Moab can vote. The members that reside elsewhere can express their opinion but cannot vote. I think when the club is voting on issues that are not a local; it must allow every member to vote. If only local members are voting on regional/national issues, the vote pool is to narrow. People will have less ownership of a resolution if they were unable to vote. If you are allowed to vote for a resolution on an issue and even if it was passed in away that you disagree with, you will accept and support it more than if you where not allowed to voice your opinion with a vote. Just my 02 worth.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

It is my understanding that only members that reside in Moab can vote...

As per the RR4W By-Laws:

They have two classifications, MEMBER and ASSOCIATE. To be a MEMBER, one must reside in Grand or San Jaun County, or Green River, Utah. Must be 18 and have an operable 4x4 vehicle. They must participate actively in club meetings and events. Each MEMBER is entitled to ONE vote. A MEMBER must attend 2 meetings and 2 rides per year* (I think its per year). An ASSOCIATE has all the same priviledges as a MEMBER with the exception of voting, hoding elective office or position of Trustees in the club.

 

[BLH]

Here's aweird thought on this EJS stuff!

Here is weird Idea, maybe we all ought to step back and look at it from everyone involved stand point! Expecially in Moab! If you really want to know story on ejs, go spend some time down there talking with local's. It is the treehugger, Blm or anything else. As locals what they think about Redrockers.

 

[fourdoorjeep]

Thanks Kurt for the info.
I think they should allow the associate members to vote on issues that affect more than the local area. If RR4WD is working on changing some rules concerning public lands, then everyone who is a member or associate should vote. BLM land belongs to everyone. Last EJS I meet two people from Kansas who drove all night Friday so they could wheel Big Sat and Sunday. They drove home Sunday night so they could be back to work on Monday. They have as much right to use the land lawfully as does as anyone else. I know the people that reside in Moab hate EJS. However they do not own the BLM land any more the guy from Kansas does. If people are breaking the law, send them to jail or write tickets.

 

[roktaxi]

Thanks Kurt for the info.
I think they should allow the associate members to vote on issues that affect more than the local area. If RR4WD is working on changing some rules concerning public lands, then everyone who is a member or associate should vote. BLM land belongs to everyone.

There's still too many people in the Club with the old mentality to ever let that happen. It's "their Club". To kind of give you an idea, a few years ago a questionaire was mailled to ALL the Associates and Members asking their opinion on moving the EJS date. Aprox. 80% that responded were in favor of looking into a date change. But when it came time to vote on it (Members only) it was narrowly defeated. Now that's what I call the fox guarding the hen house. And one other recent time the same issue was voted on again and PASSED. But another motion was made to RE-VOTE on the same issue the following month and it was narrowly DEFEATED. Primarily because some Club members that rarely show up for meetings or particiapate in Club runs came to that meeting. And who do you think notifiied these "deadbeats" to come and vote???? The amazing part is that the vote was only to look into the feasability of moving the date, NOT moving the date. There were many issues to look into before a decission could be made. If all the issues could be midigated then the Club could have moved forward with another vote to actually move the date. But the vote was made to not even consider the change. How closed minded is that????? :sick: If the Associates were able to vote I believe the vote outcome would have been different.

 

[Todd Adams]

If the Associates were able to vote I believe the vote outcome would have been different.

Marty,
There may come a time in the not to distant future that the club will have no choice.

BTW it sure is nice to hear from you on this board. I long for the good old days but I am afraid they are gone.
Todd

 

[roktaxi]

...gone but never forgotten

I long for the good old days but I am afraid they are gone.
Todd

I think constructive arguments and differences of opinion are a good thing... even from the other side (greenies)...(did I say that???). But this type of internal disscesion is destructive more so for the 4 wheel community than for the club. The club I belonged to in CA was like organizations should be. Not everyone got along and there were personality conflicts, but we all had one thing in common: 4 wheeling. When there was a breakdown or help needed, EVERYONE was there to help and there was not even a hint of any personal differences that might have existed. I have been around the RR4W club for the better part of 17 years (several years a Club "officer" and a Trustee). I do not intented to "throw in the towel" but I will not support their level of business regarding EJS. It's out of control. This point of view is shared by many other Members, some who are have been members for over 30 years. Some of those Members don't like to voice their opinion publicly and are willing to ride it out. As part of the 4-wheel comunity, I don't think we have that luxury to take a wait-and-see attitude. But working within the Club structure will not work. Stay tuned.

 

[rmeof1]

1. Yes, the RR4W do in fact "contribute" to keeping the trails open and are probably the largest contributor. However, they are not the sole contributor. Start shutting the trails down to accomodate the "few" and see how long the economy of Moab lasts. It is after all a tourist industry.

2. The argument of having the event "not" coincide with spring break has always been talked about but nothing has ever been done. If the two events were separate it would make for a better time just for the simple reason of crowd control. But making a blanket statement such as this is irresponsible and completely prejudice in nature;

Non EJS participants have gotten out of hand and something needs to be done even to take as drastic steps as these.

You know the majority of "non EJS participants" are doing the right thing. They are folks just like you that happened to have more than two days off in a row that just happen to want to go wheeling or biking, etc.

3. Maybe, if they want to keep the trails less conjested, they could start by cutting down that "HUGE" caravan that is called the EJS. I mean really, why would you want to pay the fee's to participate in an event that by far allows the largest amount of vehicles per trail then any other event in Moab, that bases your trails on a lottery system, that runs trails that you probably already know quite well or can easily be found via a guide book. You can argue that you do it to support the trails being open, but that just doesn't wash with me. There are plenty of other means to keeping trails open. You can argue that it is for the comraderie. I say it's organized kaos. The best two runs that I have had this past two years had no more than three vehicles.

4.

Last year an individual was arrested and handcuffed (I was witness to this) on Poison Spider Mesa Trail who decided to argue with the trail leader.

I'd like to hear the other side to this incident. Maybe it was the aledged alcohol, but if a trail leader approached me about having the right of way I'd tell you to go get bent. Keep in mind I believe that I am always courteous on trails, but that is my decision to make not some "non LEO". I have seen more than my share of mighter than thou trail leaders in my time. Which brings me to my last point.

5.

David,

The problem is that some people think “they” own the trails. I had an encounter a couple of years ago with just this type of individual while mid gunning an official trail. I won’t get into details but he is one of the main reasons and others like him that I hope the BLM grants the request of RR4W.

Talk about the ketlle calling the pot black! Who thinks that they own the trails now. Please

 

[cruiseroutfit]

1. Yes, the RR4W do in fact "contribute" to keeping the trails open and are probably the largest contributor. However, they are not the sole contributor.

No, they are obviously not the sole contributor, but they are by far the LARGEST, they literally grease the wheels of Moab.

Start shutting the trails down to accomodate the "few" and see how long the economy of Moab lasts. It is after all a tourist industry.

Six trails... six trails out of the 50+ in the area that are open 365 days a year. Lets assume they get their six trails, lets also assume there are 50 total trails in the area (way more in all reality). So they are asking that .000329% of the trails/per year be closed in favor of their activity...

A couple notes about that .0003%
1. Are they more than .0003% of the areas yearly tourism revenue - YES
2. Do they donate more than .0003% of the Search & Rescue Budget - YES
3. Does RR4W contribute more than .0003% of the areas Land-Use effortsYES
4. Is the RR4W responsible for more than .0003% of the areas trails being open, IMHO - YES

Numbers don't lie... This is a small request on their part.

2. The argument of having the event "not" coincide with spring break has always been talked about but nothing has ever been done.

Who's "Spring Break" does in coincide with? Not mine... It does however coincide with Easter, hence the name Easter Jeep Safari...

If the two events were separate it would make for a better time just for the simple reason of crowd control.

What proof do you have of that? It would definatly make a better time for the actual EJS participants. Remember that the RR4W's make all the added law enforcment, search and rescue, and trail clean-ups possible. Their event would benefit by a date change, I agree there... But it is important to remember that "Spring Breakers" will also require that amount of enforcment, search & rescue (remember the 4Runner... point blank!), and cleanup. How long do you think the trails will remain open if all the partiers were there alone?

They are folks just like you that happened to have more than two days off in a row that just happen to want to go wheeling or biking, etc.

I agree, not all the non-partic. are bad... but Utah is a HUGE place (Moab represents less than 5% of the states trails, roughly), if you have a couple days off, see something new, don't complain when you head to Moab and decide the EJS draws too many people.

I mean really, why would you want to pay the fee's to participate in an event that by far allows the largest amount of vehicles per trail then any other event in Moab, that bases your trails on a lottery system, that runs trails that you probably already know quite well or can easily be found via a guide book.

Becasue you are there to support the event, to play within the system.

You can argue that you do it to support the trails being open, but that just doesn't wash with me.

Then you tell us why people travel all over the country to pay and participate happily in the actual event...

There are plenty of other means to keeping trails open.

Can you think of another way to come up with the money required for the BLM to stay satisfied? If so let us all know, there are dozens of other places in the state under the same pressure.

 

[DrMoab]

OK first let me say this...I think the Red Rockers have done more for the area around Moab then most anybody.
That being said...I will never...ever attend another EJS again. At least not until they can figure out away to handle 20,000 drunk teenagers.
I think moving the safari was the best idea they ever had.
I also think that the EJS could be the downfall of Moab and all our wonderful trails if they don't figure out a way to get the crowds under control. I think its funny how you all sit here and say how wonderful or horrable it is that they want to close the trails down for big saturay when nobody so far has looked at the bigger picture.
All those asswipes that are getting drunk and disrupting such a cool event are EXACTLY what the SUWA guys want to see. If you shut down the trails and get a bunch of people arrested for being drunk and disorderly in their 4X4s Suwa will be over that like crap on stink with their huge propiganda machine telling the world how bad us 4X4ers are.

Yeah shut down Moab for the whole Safari only let registered EJS guests into town, then maybe the drunks will go away...I wont have anymore stuff stolen off my Jeep and we can all live happily ever after.

Or just go a different week and let the support for RR fourwheelers dry up and blow away in the wind.

Lose Lose situation it sounds like to me.