D44 going in! Few axle strengh questions...

[Rot Box]

After a bit of bad luck in Moab I decided it's time for an upgrade :greg: I have a Waggy 44 that I have been building up for my Toyota, and so far It's looking good. I now have Reid knuckles, huge crossover steering from WFO, custom spring hanger, and 5.38 gears.

I'm looking for advice on the locker though. The axle has 3.55's in it now so I need a full locker or a carrier for a lunch box style locker to go to the 5.38's.

I'm unsure of the strength of my stock shafts, and from everything I've heard "if the shaft goes snap so does the Detroit"... How much truth is there to that? I don't have the money for Cromo's yet, but I need a carrier now so I can set up my gears. Fwiw I plan on running 35's - 37's by spring.

I basically would rather destroy a $250 Lockright vs. a $550 Detriot if my axle shaft does break. What do you think? Spend the money on axles now? Also does anyone warrantee a locker (probably not :-\) if something like this does happen?

I'm newish to the Dana 44 thing, but if the stockers are anything like Birfields then I will get shafts without question Thanks,

Andrew

 

[I Lean]

Shaft breakage = broken Detroit usually. If you're going to go Detroit, go Chromo shafts now. Lockrights are more forgiving in the event of shaft failure.

Stock D44 stuff is going to be stronger than stock birfs, but if you had Longs before you'd better go Chromo again.

 

[Greg]

I was running a Aussie Locker in the Dana 44 under my old 4Runner. I liked it, the Aussie worked just fine and was plenty strong. I ran stock shafts and u-joints with only one failure. One of the caps came loose and started to oval the ears on the shafts.

I ran 35's for a long time and had no real issues. I was somewhat careful, but had been pretty hard on it, considering. I think my breakage came when I launched out of Mickeys Hot Tub and I had most of my weight on the front end, under throttle.

I think a locked Dana 44 with stock shafts on 35's is a decent balance for a Toyota. Stock to stock, Dana 44 shafts & joints are stronger than Birfs. If you want to run bigger than 35" tires, then upgrade to alloy shafts and aftermarket joints.

Eventually I went to 38x14.5 TSL SX's and I really had to be cautious with getting bound up and using throttle. It was still very wheelable, but I had to choose my lines carefully in order not to get bound up. I loved the tires though, they worked great and I didn't want to step down to a smaller tire. I would have added alloy shafts and quality u-joints, but I sold the 4Runner. I felt like I was pushing my luck with those heavy tires and stock shafts, front axle breakage was only a matter of time.


38x14.5" SX's on Dana 44 with shock shafts-

 

[Bart]

I think a locked Dana 44 with stock shafts on 35's is a decent balance for a Toyota. Stock to stock, Dana 44 shafts & joints are stronger than Birfs. If you want to run bigger than 35" tires, then upgrade to alloy shafts and aftermarket joints.

I concur and think this is a good rule of thumb.

 

[Rot Box]

Thanks a bunch guy's. I figured 37's were about the max you'd want to go--probably including upgraded axle shafts :-\

I don't want to chance breaking a $500+ dollar locker so Aussie it is. I have ran a Lockright in the back for years, and have 0 complaints about it, and from what I've seen the Aussies are even better.

This has been a really fun project so far. Can't wait to get this thing on the road... I mean trail!

 

[Herzog]

Go w/ the aussie locker & full circle clips in your joints (or tack weld them). Also get a set of warn premium hubs. They can serve as your weak point and the lifetime warranty makes it painless to change them out when they do break. Before I stepped up to Summit Machine flanges, I would go through a warn hub every other trip.

I've also heard Detroits taking the shock from a hub breaking and destroying a side gear as well. For some reason, I don't think Detroit is making their lockers like they used to.

 

[Greg]

Shane knows how to build Dana 44's too, he's been wheeling with 38" SX's and Dana 44's for, what, 10 yrs now?

 

[Herzog]

Shane knows how to build Dana 44's too, he's been wheeling with 38" SX's and Dana 44's for, what, 10 yrs now?

Holy crap, has it already been that long?

 

[Rot Box]

Go w/ the aussie locker & full circle clips in your joints (or tack weld them). Also get a set of warn premium hubs. Before I stepped up to Summit Machine flanges, I would go through a warn hub every other trip .

Good thinking. I'll probably tack them just in case I also have the premium hubs along with the stock flanges that came on the Jeep as spares although I don't know if they are any good

Every other trip! That's wierd to me as very rarely a factory Toyota hub ever fails... I guess its a good fuse, and saves the expensive stuff

 

[Herzog]

Good thinking. I'll probably tack them just in case I also have the premium hubs along with the stock flanges that came on the Jeep as spares although I don't know if they are any good

Every other trip! That's wierd to me as very rarely a factory Toyota hub ever fails... I guess its a good fuse, and saves the expensive stuff

Yeah, just about every other trip... but I got the method to change them down to a few minutes.

I carried the stock flanges as spares too. But I also had an extra set of premiums back at the truck. I know for a fact that Warn isn't making their premium hubs as good as they used to. They are more of a fuse now days... but with the warranty it's still a good deal to me.

The biggest reason to tack your caps in is so that when the joint fails, it won't kill or miss-shape the ears. Most failures are when the caps walk themselves out anyways.

 

[mesha]

Shaft breakage = broken Detroit usually. If you're going to go Detroit, go Chromo shafts now. Lockrights are more forgiving in the event of shaft failure.

Crud I didn't know this. I just put detroits in my 9"s front and rear.

 

[chans]

Thanks a bunch guy's. I figured 37's were about the max you'd want to go--probably including upgraded axle shafts :-\

I don't want to chance breaking a $500+ dollar locker so Aussie it is. I have ran a Lockright in the back for years, and have 0 complaints about it, and from what I've seen the Aussies are even better.

This has been a really fun project so far. Can't wait to get this thing on the road... I mean trail!

Plus the Aussie is like a two year warranty. I got one shipped for around 260.00. If you can, you can always return your gears and get the thick gears and use your carrier you have now. All the lockrite and Aussie breakages I've seen after an axle breaks has always been just the pins and that is only a 15.00 fix unlike the Detroit.

 

[notajeep]

What? You can't find a free 60 laying around anywhere?

 

[Cody]

I ran a lockright in my front 44 and broke dozens of shafts and joints, never once had a problem with the lockright.

I ran superwinch hubs, because they tended to break before the shafts and they had the lifetime warrenty. I probably went through 30 hubs over the course of 18 moths.

Go chromo for sure. At least Yukon.

 

[Rot Box]

38x14.5" SX's on Dana 44 with shock shafts-

Where is that trail located? That looks like some cool terrain

What? You can't find a free 60 laying around anywhere?

The last one I had seemed to disappear

I probably went through 30 hubs over the course of 18 moths.

Go chromo for sure. At least Yukon.

That's insane I hope going this route doesn't end up in a lot of trail repairs for me... Oh well hubs aren't terrible :-\

 

[Greg]

Where is that trail located? That looks like some cool terrain

My back yard... That's from 21 Road and it's a blast. You can take the hard lines and really challenge you & your rig, or take the easier lines and enjoy the scenery. 21 Road is what brought me to Fruita for the first time, 8 yrs ago... 5 yrs later we moved here.

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/gallery/v/21+Road/

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?p=416867

That's insane I hope going this route doesn't end up in a lot of trail repairs for me... Oh well hubs aren't terrible :-\

Cody had heavy Creepy Crawlers on heavy wheels with a V8, deep gearing with an Atlas and he wheeled his ZJ-Buggy hard and often. Your 4 cyl Toyota will be fine, I didn't have problems with the Warn Premium hubs on my 4Runner.

 

[cannoncrawler]

I was running a Aussie Locker in the Dana 44 under my old 4Runner. I liked it, the Aussie worked just fine and was plenty strong. I ran stock shafts and u-joints with only one failure. One of the caps came loose and started to oval the ears on the shafts.

I ran 35's for a long time and had no real issues. I was somewhat careful, but had been pretty hard on it, considering. I think my breakage came when I launched out of Mickeys Hot Tub and I had most of my weight on the front end, under throttle.

I think a locked Dana 44 with stock shafts on 35's is a decent balance for a Toyota. Stock to stock, Dana 44 shafts & joints are stronger than Birfs. If you want to run bigger than 35" tires, then upgrade to alloy shafts and aftermarket joints.

Eventually I went to 38x14.5 TSL SX's and I really had to be cautious with getting bound up and using throttle. It was still very wheelable, but I had to choose my lines carefully in order not to get bound up. I loved the tires though, they worked great and I didn't want to step down to a smaller tire. I would have added alloy shafts and quality u-joints, but I sold the 4Runner. I felt like I was pushing my luck with those heavy tires and stock shafts, front axle breakage was only a matter of time.


38x14.5" SX's on Dana 44 with shock shafts-

Why not do the longs in the toy axles and fuggetaboutit?

having broke about 8-9 shafts (stock) after buying Gregs runner, Waynehartwig hooked me up with yukons for the 44.

I haven't broke a shaft yet, but I did take out a u joint. I am still pretty carefull with em and never push it if it binds.....

all the other toy guys that I wheel with just bash the ever living crap out the longs in their toy axles and the just laugh it off.

the aussie works great, and I have broke 3 warn premiums.....

I still love this 4 runner and feel that I squeezed every penny of its worth out of it!

 

[Greg]

Why not do the longs in the toy axles and fuggetaboutit?

having broke about 8-9 shafts (stock) after buying Gregs runner, Waynehartwig hooked me up with yukons for the 44.

I haven't broke a shaft yet, but I did take out a u joint. I am still pretty carefull with em and never push it if it binds.....

all the other toy guys that I wheel with just bash the ever living crap out the longs in their toy axles and the just laugh it off.

the aussie works great, and I have broke 3 warn premiums.....

I still love this 4 runner and feel that I squeezed every penny of its worth out of it!

That many broken parts?!?!

Yeah, you wheel that thing way harder than I did. My driving style was pretty weak for the most part... that's changing with a healthy V8 and built 60's, as you've seen.

 

[Cody]

That's insane I hope going this route doesn't end up in a lot of trail repairs for me... Oh well hubs aren't terrible :-\

Yup, but the hubs are easy. I could change a hub before the next vehicle is up the next obstacle and I just carried slugs from a 10 bolt to toss in until I could get to carquest and warrenty the hubs.

stock 44 isn't strong. anybody that says so has either never had one or never wheeled very hard. If memory serves, I broke 18 shafts, 12 joints and lots and lots of hubs. I'd say at least a dozen trail days were lost due to broken parts on the 44 and countless hours spent on the trail, in a parking lot, or back at camp tearing apart the axle to change shafts. I could have purchased 3 60's with the money I spent on the axle to start with, all of the replacement parts, and then the alloy shafts and joints I eventually had to put in there to keep it together. Had I just put a 60 in to start with, I would have saved money and also saved all of those days on the trail and all of those hours working on the rig when I could have been wheelin. that last part is what sucks to me because I don't enjoy working on rigs, but I love to go wheelin. It sucks to drive 3-4 hours to wheel if you spend half your time broken.

Hindsight is 20/20 though and as the saying goes there is never enough money to do it right the first time, but there always seems to be money to fix it or do it over again.

Like what was said above, I would put the fancy chromo longfields in the toy axle before I would go through all of the pain to put in a 44 that probably isn't any stronger. If you NEED more strength than your toy axles with alloys, then you NEED a 60. No other way around it.

 

[Greg]

... stock 44 isn't strong. anybody that says so has either never had one or never wheeled very hard...

Ouch! :-\

I disagree Cody, a stock Dana 44 is a good balance for a Toyota mini truck on 35's, IMO. The vehicles weight, power and tire size have MUCH to do with the equation in this case. So does driving style and ability.

My 4Runner with a stock Dana 44 shafts & joints made numerous trips up 21 Road, did Pritchett, Helldorado, the Escalator on Hells Revenge, etc, etc without breakage. Granted I didn't drive like Chris Durham.

If you have a heavier rig running a Dana 44 with stock parts, a V8, deep gearing, big & heavy tires and you're wheeling it hard, you will have trouble. But for a 110 HP 4 cyl Toyota that's pretty light with appropriate sized tires, it works.

The reason I went with a Dana 44 over the Toyota axle was because I wanted stability offroad. My 4Runner came without axles, so I started fresh. I built a Dana 44 that was 64" wide versus the Toyota axle at 55" wide. My 4Runner ended up being much more stable than my previous Toyota on Toy axles. I thought the balance of strength and stability was right on.