D44 pinion bearing - play?

[DAA]

So I just started in trying to track down a vibe/thrum/drone. My '06 LJ Rubi, stock Dana 44's front and rear. Been happening for quite awhile but I thought it was tire drone until recently when a vibe started too. Might be worth noting, this is my third set of KM2's and the others never had a drone like this, just kinda thought I got an unlucky set this time or something, up till now.

Just took the rear driveshaft off the pinion to check the u-joint, really hoping for a wasted u-joint but it seems fine. Will pull the other end off the t-case here in a bit and check that u-joint too, but it seems tight and right with the driveshaft still attached.

Anyhoo… I can move the pinion yoke up-down, side-to-side just a bit. Not very much, but there is some definite play there and I can make it "thunk" just a tiny bit with up-down or side-to-side movment. I don't know, but am thinking there should not be any play there at all?

The noise, I was thinking if not driveshaft, more likely either carrier bearing or R&P rather than pinion bearing because it's not "fast", if that makes sense? Used to only be noticeable at freeway speeds but recently, since the vibration came along is noticeable at almost any speed if listening for it. Does sound like tire hum/drone and does change with speed.

Can't really say yet how the noise relates to acceleration vs. coast. The vibe is quite noticeable during acceleration though, even from a stop. Only started doing that this week.

But, is a small amount of play in the pinion yoke as described telling me something? I gotta feeling it is?

As long as I'm asking dumb questions trying to figure this out... The driveshaft slip joint has some rotational play in it too, with thunking. Not much, but some. Have had it off quite a few times, you would think I'd remember if it has always done that or not, but I dont' remember. Normal?

- DAA

 

[DAA]

Okay, just took a quick vid with my tablet. Just dumped it out to a photo hosting site, so here's a link, let's see if it works.

Pinion yoke play

Looks worse to me watching that than it feels just wiggling it. Watch the crack in the crud around the pinion nut. Waiting for RME wise heads to comment, but I think this is bad. Yay...

- DAA

 

[DAA]

Talking to myself again...

But no play at all in the front. So I guess that answers that and the real question is what to do about it, how to proceed.

I guess taking the diff cover off, seeing what I can see, hoping the R&P "look" okay.

Have always considered any work inside the diff above my pay grade. Still do. So I think I'll be looking for someone else to do this. Although, really, I "think" I could handle a straightforward bearing replacement? I do have a press. I could get a bearing splitter for pretty cheap. If I don't need to reset any gear stuff, just put the same shims back in, I might be okay. Will want the carrier bearings replaced too, just on GP.

Dunno… Get the cover off and have a look and think about it I guess. But I think I'd probably be better off letting someone else do this. Pulling the whole axle out I can easily handle. Loading it in the truck myself though, ehhh, once upon a time no sweat, not so sure about that now.

- DAA

 

[RustEoldtrux]

If your rear driveshaft is still off, try taking it for a run in front wheel drive to see if the noise or vibration changes. Might tell you something.

 

[BCGPER]

Is the pinion nut still torqued? Check that, but I’d wager you’re looking at replacing the pinion bearings at a minimum. You’d be a fool to not replace all the bearings and seals at the same time, but sometimes money talks. Six States pricing is very reasonable on these type of repairs.

 

[DAA]

For sure, whether I tackle it myself or pay to have it done it will get all new bearings and seals. Ring and pinion look okay to my untrained eye. Will check torque on the nut in the morning have to get cleaned up for dinner right now.

- DAA

 

[DAA]

I think by the time I buy a bearing splitter, needle swing inch pound torque wrench, depth mic, master bearing kit, I'm probably better off farming it out.

- DAA

 

[boogie_4wheel]

Would it even be worth pulling the axle; leave it in the Jeep and just drive it there?

Six States has been good to me for carrier bearing replacements over the years.

 

[mbryson]

Worth checking Axis driveline there at Ralph Smith. They might get you fixed up PDQ?

 

[DAA]

Would it even be worth pulling the axle; leave it in the Jeep and just drive it there?

Six States has been good to me for carrier bearing replacements over the years.

Oh yeah, if it ends up going somewhere like Six States, I'd for sure just drive it there. I know they didn't care if the axles were in or out when they did R&P's for me 10 or 12 years ago. I ended up having to pay Terraflex to redo that job too though - Six States set them up with zero preload on anything (according to Terra) and the rears ate themselves up in no time.

Can't remember the name of the place, they've bee gone for a long time, one man shop basically, down where Gateway is now, but I had stuff like this done there way back in the day, he charged less for bringing in an axle out of the rig.

I don't think I've heard of Axis? I don't get out much either though . I'll google 'em up and give them a call later this morning. Depending on what I hear from a couple places, I think I'll either be dropping it off today or rounding up tools and parts. Gotta get it going quick either way. Have trips coming right up and I ain't missing them!

- DAA

 

[gatchmo5710]

Before you get to deep, I would go get a new nut and crush washer and retorque. It looks like play between pinion shaft and yoke, not pinion and housing which indicates a bad bearing. Ive seen the yokes work loose and good cleaning and retorque will take all the play out.

 

[DAA]

You may be right. I just finished tightening the nut and putting the cover back on. Got nearly a full turn on the nut taking it to about 175 lbs. No play now. Going to put the lube back in and test drive. If it's quiet now I may follow your advice with a new nut and see how it goes. Here's hoping .

- DAA

 

[N-Smooth]

Personally I’d just give it a couple dugga dugga’s with the impact but I guess you need to be able to depend on your rig so maybe not...

 

[DAA]

Sometimes, I just have to not question why.

So...

Tightening the pinion nut did nothing. Symptoms still there.

In the course of checking other possible causes for vibration and noise, I found a unit bearing going bad, could actually clunk it with the tire in the air. Ah-ha! Had axle u-joints and new ball joints sitting here I was planning to do soon anyway, so did it all at once, unit bearing, ball joints, u-joints.

NO change. Rats...

Sitting here this morning, thinking it's going to Axis on Monday so they can find out what's going on in the diff. Decided, just to take the rear drive shaft out again and drive it. Had meant to drive it without the shaft the first time I had the drive line out, but after finding the pinion yoke had play, I had completely switched suspect and hadn't.

Symptoms gone with no rear drive shaft. Okay, it's either the drive shaft/u-joints or it's something in the rear diff that only makes noise and vibrates when it's loaded.

Drive shaft u-joints look totally fine. No side play at the caps I can detect, all turn freely in the caps but not too freely, grease in the two caps I could pull with the joints still in the drive shaft and needle bearings all standing upright in a row. But I decided u-joints are cheap and easy and these do have about 35,000 on them and my rig is hard on those particular joints - lift, tummy tuck, factory shaft which is not double cardan, just one u-joint on either end. Symptoms were u-joint to begin with, too, it's what I started out looking at. Just the old ones looks so fine, and the pinion nut was loose, I discarded u-joints as the suspect. But I went and grabbed a pair of fresh Spicer 1330's and installed them.

I'll be go to hell. It's all good now. Even with the old u-joints out and pulling the caps off I can't see anything wrong with the old u-joints. Just one cap, out of eight, turned much more freely than the others but even it, had grease and all it's needle bearings in place. But, replacing them did the trick, happy day, I'm not going to question why, I guess.

Thanks for helping me think it through!

- DAA

 

[I Lean]

It sounds like you already have it worked out...but when you want to go through your rear diff, let me know. Don't take it to a clown. (or at least, not a different clown.)