D60 hi steer arm questions.

[Corban_White]

So, talk to me about the hi steer arms on a kingpin D60. I know about the TRE hole but what about the cap and the studs? In the context of someone machining their own arm, what is the taper on the cone washers? When raising the cap up on an arm, are there some spacers that can be installed to keep the spring preload the same? Any other pitfalls to watch out for? Thanks.

 

[Tacoma]

Most aftermarket arms do away with the cone washers, which are a royal PITA if they're old... in favor of nuts like.. lug nuts, with a taper on the nut and a small countersink in the arm. Dedenbear studs come with them on them. I haven't had any issues using them.

As for raising the cap on the arm, you'd need to make a spacer to fit in there. Or you could use the arms that go over the caps... or get arms with teh cap integral to the arm.

I started a thread on Pirate a while back attempting to catalog the available arms out there. It's worth a search--- Dana 60 high steer arm ought to get you close enough.

 

[Corban_White]

Most aftermarket arms do away with the cone washers, which are a royal PITA if they're old... in favor of nuts like.. lug nuts, with a taper on the nut and a small countersink in the arm. Dedenbear studs come with them on them. I haven't had any issues using them.

As for raising the cap on the arm, you'd need to make a spacer to fit in there. Or you could use the arms that go over the caps... or get arms with teh cap integral to the arm.

I started a thread on Pirate a while back attempting to catalog the available arms out there. It's worth a search--- Dana 60 high steer arm ought to get you close enough.

Right, I believe I have seen that thread and looked at all the links. I would like to machine my own arms for cost reasons. I originally thought about arms that go over the caps but how will that affect the strength? (remember the smooth surface thread?) is the surface of the cap where the arm would sit flat? is the cap anything special or is it just there to hold the spring and grease in? Thanks.

 

[GOAT]

My ballistic arms replace the cap and use a bolt and jamnut for preload. I used an inchpound TQwrench to set it up

 

[Corban_White]

My ballistic arms replace the cap and use a bolt and jamnut for preload. I used a inchpound TQwrench to set it up

Are those the ones that remove the spring in favor of a nylon block or something? I am trying to stay away from that design.

 

[Caleb]

Right, I believe I have seen that thread and looked at all the links. I would like to machine my own arms for cost reasons. I originally thought about arms that go over the caps but how will that affect the strength? (remember the smooth surface thread?) is the surface of the cap where the arm would sit flat? is the cap anything special or is it just there to hold the spring and grease in? Thanks.

I don't see how going over the cap would make them any weaker than having the cap over the arm and putting a spacer in the cap to make up the difference. You would still need the same size hole in the middle for the spring the only difference is you will have to put a slight taper on the bottom side to go over the cap (no strength loss). The surface on the cap is smooth, you just have a radius on the cap that I already talked about. Not a big deal. I had my brother-in-law make mine for my buggy and they worked fine with my full hydro setup.

 

[Tacoma]

The spring pushes against a nylon bushing, which rides on the kingpin itself... the springless arms just mean you have to reset the preload from time to time.

Personally, I like one-piece arms, like ORD's, or JKW's... with the cap machined in. Not a really big fan of the ones with holes that ride on top of the cap. The cap IS just there to hold the spring and the grease.

Your smooth-surface information was at the forefront of my mind earlier this week, and coincidentally, dealing with steering arms...

If you do machine some, machine some caps and weld them on. The arms I just got from Mr. Meiser are pretty sweet like that, but no idea who made them.

 

[Tacoma]

The surface on the cap is smooth, you just have a radius on the cap that I already talked about. Not a big deal. I had my brother-in-law make mine for my buggy and they worked fine with my full hydro setup.

the surface on those caps isn't all that smooth, mechanically. Whether the clamping force of the bolts (at 80+ ft.lbs each) is enough to suffice, or whether the metal-to-metal friction is super critical or not is a matter of debate. Personally, I'm of the OPINION that the clamping force and mechanical strength of the 4-bolt design is pretty strong, but there's an obvious reason higher-strength systems went to more bolts and/or keyways. And it could be argued that it probably does make the arms weaker to machine a big hole in them across the main area of stress in a steering situation-- but again, what are the numbers, and is it something to really worry about in the real world? Apparently not.

 

[Caleb]

the surface on those caps isn't all that smooth, mechanically. Whether the clamping force of the bolts (at 80+ ft.lbs each) is enough to suffice, or whether the metal-to-metal friction is super critical or not is a matter of debate. Personally, I'm of the OPINION that the clamping force and mechanical strength of the 4-bolt design is pretty strong, but there's an obvious reason higher-strength systems went to more bolts and/or keyways. And it could be argued that it probably does make the arms weaker to machine a big hole in them across the main area of stress in a steering situation-- but again, what are the numbers, and is it something to really worry about in the real world? Apparently not.

The point is though, no matter if your cap is on top of the arm or under the arm, you still require huge hole in the middle for the spring. Having the built-in cap will probably make it stronger, but as you said, really world proves both designs work fine. You will always have someone that can break anything. Same thing with the fifth bolt or keyways, they will definitely make them stronger, but are they really necessary. A keyway isn't doable on a stock knuckle anyways (unless he's buying aftermarket with the keyway, then he's already got his answer on how to build them ).

 

[Corban_White]

Thanks a bunch for the help guys! Keep the opinions comming! Anyone know the taper for the cone washers/nuts?

 

[Tacoma]

I'll take a measurement tomorrow. I'll be installing my arms.

 

[Tacoma]

Found this for ya, after i verified that the angle is the same.

Close-up showing the 60° taper seat for the tapered nuts that secure the arm to the studs installed in the steering knuckle.

 

[jsudar]

It doesn't sound like you are going this route, but I've heard that D60 pinion shims also work well for shimming the preload on the nylon cone. I had some arms that used that setup, but I never installed them, so I can say for sure, but that is what the mfg. said to use.

I don't miss my preload springs at all. I have the type of arms that use a big set screw and locknut for preload. It eliminates the problem of big tires overcoming the spring pressure and giving you death wobble and it's not such a pain to adjust the preload as shimming would be.

The studs I used were plenty long enough to run a locknut on top of the "lug nuts" used to hold the arm on. That would solve any problems with them coming loose. I am pretty sure they are just lug nuts.

Since you are making your own, the length from the kingpin center to the drag link or tie rod hole is something to think about. If you are going full hydro, it's not as critical, but if you run a steering box and drag link, make sure you match the length of you arms to the length of your pitman arm. They don't need to be the same length, but the motion ratio of the pitman arm and steering arm need to be right so you don't run out of movement at the steering gear before you hit the stops on the knuckle. And vice versa.

I went through several pitman arms and hi-steer arms before I got something I was satisfied with. You can change the throw of saginaw boxes, but you have to tear the whole thing down and change shims and stuff. I'm not sure where you would find the parts. My super long post is done.

 

[mbryson]

I'm using the Rockstomper H1 clearance arms. No issues to date. They're pretty simple. Nothing sexy like a keyway or ackerman angle or anything. They just work. I'm using studs on two of the four bolts on each side and grade 8 bolts on the other two.