EJS no longer to be at Easter?
- Thread starter Rick B
- Start date
Yes, he's right, but we also need to remember people are entitled to their own opinions and want people to hear it. At the RR4W meetings, we have to take into account every perspective and point of view. Every point that has been brought up here was brought up at the meeting. We really just want what's best for everyone in the years to come. And that's MY opinion.
Danielle
RR4W
Danielle
RR4W
P
pokeyYJ
Guest
After attending the last three EJS events, I have a suggestion that might help, at least it might spurr a discussion the might help.
The massize size of the event must be hard to control, and I think that the size is one of the things that attracts party goers.
Has anyone suggested spiltting the event into two separate events? Possibley, one in spring and one in the fall.
The massize size of the event must be hard to control, and I think that the size is one of the things that attracts party goers.
Has anyone suggested spiltting the event into two separate events? Possibley, one in spring and one in the fall.
James K
NO, I'm always like this
- Location
- Taylorsville, Ut
pokeyYJ said:
they do that already. Its the labor day camp out.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Yup.James K said:
P
pokeyYJ
Guest
Oh..... ok, didn't know that
James K
NO, I'm always like this
- Location
- Taylorsville, Ut
pokeyYJ said:
it is not nearly as big of an event. it is really pretty tame down there over labor day.
James K
NO, I'm always like this
- Location
- Taylorsville, Ut
Herzog said:Probably one of my favorite times to be down there. Then and Thanksgiving.
I agree
pokeyYJ said:
Reducing the size of the event is one of many things we have considered. A lot of us (me included) would like to see smaller trail limits and a smaller overall event. But like I said earlier, there are pros and cons to every "solution", and there are also a lot of local folks who don't want to see ANY change to the event.
Unfortunately, there are other groups (Sierra Club and SUWA, for instance) who have their own ideas for changes to our event. Even the BLM, who is generally very good to work with here, has their own ideas of what should be done. I just hope that we (RR4W and the 4-wheeling community) can make EJS a better event for all concerned, before someone else decides what is "best". With the new BLM Moab Resource Management Plan due next year, and current our 5-year permit ending in 2005, I can't help but be concerned that there will be some major changes in store, whether they are endorsed by the RR4W or not.
I'd like to thank everyone here at RME for their views and support. I know this whole date-change issue is very controversial, and I will definately let the club know the opinions of the board.
Thanks - Jeff
RR4W
Correct me if I'm wrong but:
I think that most of the problems stem from EJS being geared towards a pretty responsible group, and recently an irresponsible element has begun to tag along for which EJS was never intended to deal with.
Would the same problems exist if you had another event geared for the 'spring break' crowd?
I doubt that you will be able to keep the 'spring break' crowd away, but is it possible to host an event tailored at them? All these kids with their parents visa cards can't be too bad for the local economy, and if they were controlled . . .
You can move EJS and set something up to keep things under control over easter weekend, or you can leave EJS on easter and have a designated area for the spring break crowd with things to keep them entertained (Moabstock).
Just my $0.02.
Good luck
I think that most of the problems stem from EJS being geared towards a pretty responsible group, and recently an irresponsible element has begun to tag along for which EJS was never intended to deal with.
Would the same problems exist if you had another event geared for the 'spring break' crowd?
I doubt that you will be able to keep the 'spring break' crowd away, but is it possible to host an event tailored at them? All these kids with their parents visa cards can't be too bad for the local economy, and if they were controlled . . .
You can move EJS and set something up to keep things under control over easter weekend, or you can leave EJS on easter and have a designated area for the spring break crowd with things to keep them entertained (Moabstock).
Just my $0.02.
Good luck
MR.CJ-7
Your Realtor
- Location
- Woods Cross, UT
Herzog said:
My thoughts exactly!!
I think EJS has become more of a spectacle than anything else. If you move the date, people will still come during easter weekend (like me for example), and people will still show up during the Safari week. It will thin the crowds--but not get rid of them.
What I worry about is say you move EJS to a later week and you still have 75% of the party crowd still show up for spring break in Moab---who is going to enforce the law then? Without RR4W organizing some of the support for EJS--without that you just have a bunch of drunk idiots tearing around and 5 cops to keep things in check. How many of the surrounding city/county law enforcement want to spend their entire spring in Moab chasing around crowds? Somewhat of a case can be made for EJS being self-ruled too---for every idiot down that week there is a responsible wheeler enforcing common sense rules on the trail. If you take all the responsible wheelers off the trail, you have a problem IMO.
Also, I'm sure many of the vendors would be less than pleased at a date change. The size of the event draws vendors like Sissio is drawn to Keystone--they just look forward to it all year. I think you would lose a good portion of that.
At any rate, I go to EJS to see the spectacle, and get blitzed (hey, lets not kid ourselves here)--I don't go to go wheelin. I'm sure if I was older I would look forward less to those aspects and more to the trail. There are more than enough weekends to go wheelin' without the crowds, but there is only 1 EJS. If it were moved, I would deffinately understand why, and miss it.
All that being said, I think it should be moved. It's better for the sport as a whole to downsize the event and disassociate some of the negative behaviors from an organization that works so hard to keep the trails open. If it's moved, I think the city needs to be prepared for anything on both weekends which could become more costly than confining it all to 1 week.
Besides, I'm tired of all these old-timers getting in the way of my beer drinkin' time!
Cody
What I worry about is say you move EJS to a later week and you still have 75% of the party crowd still show up for spring break in Moab---who is going to enforce the law then? Without RR4W organizing some of the support for EJS--without that you just have a bunch of drunk idiots tearing around and 5 cops to keep things in check. How many of the surrounding city/county law enforcement want to spend their entire spring in Moab chasing around crowds? Somewhat of a case can be made for EJS being self-ruled too---for every idiot down that week there is a responsible wheeler enforcing common sense rules on the trail. If you take all the responsible wheelers off the trail, you have a problem IMO.
Also, I'm sure many of the vendors would be less than pleased at a date change. The size of the event draws vendors like Sissio is drawn to Keystone--they just look forward to it all year. I think you would lose a good portion of that.
At any rate, I go to EJS to see the spectacle, and get blitzed (hey, lets not kid ourselves here)--I don't go to go wheelin. I'm sure if I was older I would look forward less to those aspects and more to the trail. There are more than enough weekends to go wheelin' without the crowds, but there is only 1 EJS. If it were moved, I would deffinately understand why, and miss it.
All that being said, I think it should be moved. It's better for the sport as a whole to downsize the event and disassociate some of the negative behaviors from an organization that works so hard to keep the trails open. If it's moved, I think the city needs to be prepared for anything on both weekends which could become more costly than confining it all to 1 week.
Besides, I'm tired of all these old-timers getting in the way of my beer drinkin' time!
Cody
rockcrawler
Registered User
Well im a new member here, so im thinking my opinion doesnt count as much, but I think changing the date would be a great idea. EJS has been a great 4wheeling experience, and I personally would like to contribute to keeping it that way, and not making it anymore trashed and out of hand than it already is. I think that EJS should be more tamed, and it could do without all the partying and the littering. I'd say if people want to intrude, go party, get drunk, and interfere with the experience as a whole, they can head somewhere else. I guess you could say that everyone has a right to be there, but mostly i'd have to say hey! This was our gig first! We should opt to keep it more mature and take in less of the drunk, stumbling, obnoxious college kids. I think Kurt is right in hinting that it was our time first, but to most people its a big joke. Changing the date would be a good idea. Granted it goes against what? 38 years of tradition? But its barely a tradition anymore for what its become. Im right behind ya kurt, and everyone else! Lets keep ejs REAL!
- Location
- West Valley
I think that Cody brings up the facts of the matter in this debate. just by changing the date of the 'official' safari won't keep out any alcohol or party people. It might reduce them, but they will still be there. And then of course they will be there during easter. What really needs to happen is for ALL wheelers who care about the sport to stand up and help out with the RR4W, U4WDA, etc... The more support with these types of groups the easier it will be to regulate the activities that are going on.
It would be nice to get the RR4W's image away from the easter horror stories, but those party people will still be there just like cody mentioned with even less 'supervision' from other wheelers/law enforcement. And that could do more damage for our sport than good. The Greens watch all kinds of stuff, and you know they are down there on easter at potato salad, only they are collecting photos to use as propoganda for their lobbyists...
Anyone who really cares about Moab and the trails down there need to do what it takes to clean up the EJS and keep it going and show the greens what a GOOD group of people we are and that we can regulate our own and maintain a large event without it going crazy. It is up to us to take back the safari, not just the RR4Ws.
I have personally seen the EJS go from good to bad, as it has become more popular and mainstreamed with wheelers and party-types. Basically what it comes down to is that moving the safari will make no difference to the troublemakers, they will still come- to both events. And our sport will continue to become identified with those type of people, eventually resulting in us losing our trail privilleges in that area, and then watch it spread. Right now the Greenies are loving it- watching us slitting our own throats. They don't have to do anything but take the pictures to prove it.
just my .02$
-Vinny
It would be nice to get the RR4W's image away from the easter horror stories, but those party people will still be there just like cody mentioned with even less 'supervision' from other wheelers/law enforcement. And that could do more damage for our sport than good. The Greens watch all kinds of stuff, and you know they are down there on easter at potato salad, only they are collecting photos to use as propoganda for their lobbyists...
Anyone who really cares about Moab and the trails down there need to do what it takes to clean up the EJS and keep it going and show the greens what a GOOD group of people we are and that we can regulate our own and maintain a large event without it going crazy. It is up to us to take back the safari, not just the RR4Ws.
I have personally seen the EJS go from good to bad, as it has become more popular and mainstreamed with wheelers and party-types. Basically what it comes down to is that moving the safari will make no difference to the troublemakers, they will still come- to both events. And our sport will continue to become identified with those type of people, eventually resulting in us losing our trail privilleges in that area, and then watch it spread. Right now the Greenies are loving it- watching us slitting our own throats. They don't have to do anything but take the pictures to prove it.
just my .02$
-Vinny
It's true, unfortunately the spring break crowd will go wherever there's an event, because there are more people, but like Cody said, hopefully it will thin the crowds. We want this to be more of a family-oriented event, not a "Girls Gone Wild" video.
It's unfortunate that people are associating the RR4W with the party people. If anything, we would bring in even more supervision and law enfocement to keep it as under control as possible. People don't realize that we donate money every year to the Moab PD, the Grand County Sheriff, and I think even the San Juan County Sheriff to help us.
Let the Greenies think what they want about us, and badmouth us all they want; we know that we're trying to do our best to keep EJS a clean, fun event, and keep the partying crowd to a minimum if at all possible.
Danielle
RR4W
It's unfortunate that people are associating the RR4W with the party people. If anything, we would bring in even more supervision and law enfocement to keep it as under control as possible. People don't realize that we donate money every year to the Moab PD, the Grand County Sheriff, and I think even the San Juan County Sheriff to help us.
Let the Greenies think what they want about us, and badmouth us all they want; we know that we're trying to do our best to keep EJS a clean, fun event, and keep the partying crowd to a minimum if at all possible.
Danielle
RR4W
Once upon a time, not all that long ago, Moab was a very big Spring Break destination. It kept getting worse until it reached the point where Hwy 128 was actually blocked by the parties happening along the river. The locals decided enough was enough & demanded that the BLM & Grand County Sheriff do something, and it was done, lots of cops were imported & a zero tolerance stance was adopted. Suddenly after a few weeks of overflowing jails & more cops than anyone could imagine the word got out that Moab wasn't a wide open party place for Spring Break any more, things settled down in the following years. Then rock crawling started becoming the cool thing to be into, the party crowds started reappearing in the spring as word got out about the huge party in Moab over Easter. The locals are again saying enough, more & more people who live here are sick & tired of not being able to get around in their own town for more than a week. RR4W is hearing the complaints of the locals & looking at disassociating themselves from the party crowd so that law enforcement can have a free hand in dealing with the unruly crowds. Like I said when I started this thread, I think moving the Jeep Safari to a later date is a good thing for both the town & the event. Yes there will be a certian element that shows up during Easter anyway, but now the law enforcement people can actually deal with them instead of just humoring them, now the community can feel like the tens of thousands of dollars it spends to import law enforcement personnel & rent the UHP helicopter will be spent for actual enforcement of the law & the community standards, and in the future we can look forward to having our community back & not having the necessity of spending that money for extra cops & the state's helicopter. We don't want to be Daytona Beach. Will vendors be put off by setting a regular date for the event (Easter varies by nearly a month from year to year), highly unlikely. They will still come to try to convince us to buy their newest goodies, unless they don't really want to sell them. We just had a big Harley Owners Group event here in Moab last weekend, most people barely noticed they were even here. Yet the motels & campgrounds were full. Same goes for the Rod Benders car show in late April, you can hardly find a campsite or room that weekend, yet the community is not disrupted by the event. Jeep Safari used to be the same way until about 7 or 8 years ago. If it's going to survive it needs to cause much less disruption to the everyday lives of the locals, the best way to do that is to change the event to a time when the majority of the hangers on are not able to just show up & party for a week or more. One way or another there are going to be changes in the event. It's best for everyone if the changes are voluntarily made by the event sponsor (RR4W) & participants rather than mandatory by the local population & land management agencies.
phillippi
Never enough time
- Location
- Utah County
I have been going to EJS since 1995 and an associate member since 1996. I have seen alot of changes that make the EJS what it wasnt meant to be. It was supposed to be a family, friends, rigs type event. If people are all over the town with their wheelers tearing everything up, drinking & driving, and basically being a pain in the butt. I want the days when I could take my kids wheeling, then out to eat after without worrying about what they see or hear. Change it I will still come and wheel.
And with me being a Utah County Deputy Sheriff, I will come down over easter to bust all the kids and dirtbags causing problems, and then come back with my family to wheel on the safari!
And with me being a Utah County Deputy Sheriff, I will come down over easter to bust all the kids and dirtbags causing problems, and then come back with my family to wheel on the safari!
rockcrawler
Registered User
To anyone who can help me out...so what Rick B. says is that the decision of the change is to be made by the land management and the locals? How do most people feel about that? In my opinion, it might be better off if the actual traveling participants were to have a much greater say, but thats just my take? Is that reasonable? Or is there good reason to keep the changes up to the decision of the land management. Can someone give more details on this? Thanks!
phillippi said:And with me being a Utah County Deputy Sheriff, I will come down over easter to bust all the kids and dirtbags causing problems, and then come back with my family to wheel on the safari!
Sweet, we have a volunteer!
About what rockcrawler said, actually, like Jeff said, surveys were sent out to our associate members, and about 80 percent who responded were all about changing the date. I'm not sure what it would take to get the participants involved, but I know it would probably be a lot of trouble. We figure it's best to leave it up to voting and associate members. Also, if we don't change it, chances are eventually it will be changed for us by the local powers (BLM, Sierra Club, City Council, etc.), and we won't have any say in how it's changed, i.e. smaller trail sizes, restricted access to trails, a shorter event, or date change. We could always run a survey on 4x4 forums like this.
Danielle
RR4W