EJS Rant!

[Mother Deuce]

I ran 9 official trails in 9 days (led 3, gunned 3, and 3 just for fun) and I think this year was a lot smoother than last year. To me the crowds seemed smaller even though we had over 200 more vehicles register than last year. I appreciate the people who did their best to avoid the registered groups. All told I think reserved use/one-way trails worked pretty well for the first year.

I had the honor of running a trail led by Green Jeep - Hell's Revenge on Friday. I was in awe at Dave's ambassador skills and the way he expertly handled the drunks who didn't belong there and the registered participants who wanted to get out and throw down. You had to see it to believe it.

Dave, you are my eternal hero. :bow: The hardest thing in the world is to balance opposing interests. After my experience this year, I am completely behind the exclusive use of trails during Easter and anything else RR4W does. I will definitely be back next year because of my experience and also to support the RR4W. I hope more exclusive trails are added and would happily pay for another fabulous experience like I had on Friday.

I guess my only question is where was the "crowd" on Metal Masher when I severed a brake line on top of Mirror Gulch on Saturday? Trust me, there was plenty of trail for everyone on Super Saturday. That was a lonely trail fix without brake fluid.

On another note, the vendors booths were very well staffed with plenty of time for the fans to get in their fun. Kurt, kudos to you and all the time you put in - everyone else was out running trails while you staffed the U4 booth and kept smiling until the end. Anybody who thinks you didn't spend enough time there can hop onto the U4 section of this forums and volunteer for this weekend's Off Road Expo.

Thanks Dave and Kurt and everyone else who made my first EJS an awesome experience and for everything you do to keep it open for everybody - those who appreciate it and those who don't. Drinks are on me anytime.

 

[reddevil]

I guess my only question is where was the "crowd" on Metal Masher when I severed a brake line on top of Mirror Gulch on Saturday? Trust me, there was plenty of trail for everyone on Super Saturday. That was a lonely trail fix without brake fluid.

I've got your brake fluid. Sorry I wasn't there for ya, I won't let it happen again!

 

[greenjeep]

I had the honor of running a trail led by Green Jeep - Hell's Revenge on Friday. I was in awe at Dave's ambassador skills and the way he expertly handled the drunks who didn't belong there and the registered participants who wanted to get out and throw down. You had to see it to believe it.

Dave, you are my eternal hero. :bow: The hardest thing in the world is to balance opposing interests. After my experience this year, I am completely behind the exclusive use of trails during Easter and anything else RR4W does. I will definitely be back next year because of my experience and also to support the RR4W. I hope more exclusive trails are added and would happily pay for another fabulous experience like I had on Friday.

[blushing] Your welcome!! [/blushing]

It was great meeting you Mother Deuce, you're welcome on my trail anytime!!!!!!

Friday was definetly my biggest headache, I had to wind my 40+ rigs through the parking lot that basically extended from the Car Wash through Tip Over. We constantly had others jumping in and out of our group. But, all-in-all it went pretty well and we all made it in time for the raffle, where once again I didn't win anything .

 

[Mother Deuce]

we all made it in time for the raffle, where once again I didn't win anything .

Neither did we.

I've got your brake fluid. Sorry I wasn't there for ya, I won't let it happen again!

I'll hold you to it. Metal Masher is our Unicorn. No chance the brakes will go again though because I'm prepared with 2 bottles of fluid and a spare line. :greg:

Seriously though, probably 6 jeeps passed us the whole time we were stopped. And while the passers by couldn't have cared less about another's trail dilemma, it showed just how much room there is for everyone out there.

 

[wildkid]

Interesting...I was right there too (black TJ with 2 kid seats in the back), fixing my junk while you were working on yours. Seemed as though you had plenty of company and spare parts.
I wasn't carrying any fluid, however, sorry.

 

[Seth]

Cody, what ever happened with the UHP?

 

[zukgod1]

Well if this is to become the official EJS '06 rant thread then here goes...

I was on Moab Rim on Monday, 4/10 and ran into a group from Oregon. They were all wearing S.O.R.D. (sky's off-road design or something) shirts. Most of them in buggied yotas. They were the worst bunch of folks I have ever had the misfortune of being on a trail with. They were driving into each other, over each other, over trees, stopping in the middle of the trail and getting out to take a wiz (all the time a larger group was behind them). When traffic was coming the other way, they would clog the trail nearest the obstacle and cause a serious cluster ****. I typed a few of there plate numbers into my cell to report later, but didn't save the message properly and lost the info

I know Sky quite well and forwarded your post to him so he may have a chance to post the other side of what may have been going on.
Below is his reply.

Its kind of interesting because the group I was with was there Monday, and we video taped the trip from both ends. I looked for the wreckless driving on each other and the only idea I can see is that at the top of the hill we posed on each others tires, side by side in the parking area up on top. Were out of the way, and to my knowledge, theres no law against parking on your buddy's tire. I guess if you blew things way out of proportion you could say we were being wreckless and driving all over each other, but were not hurting anything, anybody, and if your a good driver, its not out of control. Most mags feature about 10 pictures an issue just like this.
The tree thing I don't have a clue on as there just aren't that many trees up there, only time were close was when some oblivious to his surroundings driver in a big blue Samurai came blasting up the trail where we were stopped, not because we wanted to but because Petersons Off Road was doing a photo shoot on the face of the hill with Off Road Design and asked us and the group in front of us to hold back a little, and we did and we made sure everyone coming up was cool with that. all was well except this guy in the Samurai on unimog axles justs blast in the middle like he's king of the hill, then blocking 2 rigs coming down the hill, so we all had to move way over, possibly we were on some brush, but not a real choice thanks to this guy.
Urination is natural, urine is 100% sterile, we drove all night 20 hours strait, drank about 4 gallons of coffee each, people will have to pee since we got to town, grabbed some good coffee and energy drinks, and hit the trail. We asked the rangers about this and the response was " what do the hikers, mountain bikers, and dirt riders do?" There are no bathrooms on the trail, So you use a rock.
Now this guy of course missed the fact that out of how ever many people came and went that day, our group was responsible for hauling about half the trash and wood left from the bike ramps and bridges, as well as trash from the Gondola tear down, 90% of the groups we watched drive by the site must have been blind, because the didn't even stop to read the 4x4 sign that said " please help remove trash". We stopped here to to load up and a couple Jeep guys blasted by up in a furry of hast, probably there rigs were to clean to carry trash.
And next, we had to fix someone who was stranded broken suspension link, as they had no tools or a welder, maybe we were in the trail then too, or maybe earlier when we had to fix an improperly welded spring hanger on a rig.
So my guess is the guy siting this blew little things out of proportion, possibly caused by unavoidable situations, then skipped the good things, which just don't make for a nasty conversation.
Thanks for the heads up Dan
TTYL Sky.

 

[wildkid]

I know Sky quite well and forwarded your post to him so he may have a chance to post the other side of what may have been going on.
Below is his reply.

Its kind of interesting because the group I was with was there Monday, and we video taped the trip from both ends. I looked for the wreckless driving on each other and the only idea I can see is that at the top of the hill we posed on each others tires, side by side in the parking area up on top. Were out of the way, and to my knowledge, theres no law against parking on your buddy's tire. I guess if you blew things way out of proportion you could say we were being wreckless and driving all over each other, but were not hurting anything, anybody, and if your a good driver, its not out of control. Most mags feature about 10 pictures an issue just like this.
The tree thing I don't have a clue on as there just aren't that many trees up there, only time were close was when some oblivious to his surroundings driver in a big blue Samurai came blasting up the trail where we were stopped, not because we wanted to but because Petersons Off Road was doing a photo shoot on the face of the hill with Off Road Design and asked us and the group in front of us to hold back a little, and we did and we made sure everyone coming up was cool with that. all was well except this guy in the Samurai on unimog axles justs blast in the middle like he's king of the hill, then blocking 2 rigs coming down the hill, so we all had to move way over, possibly we were on some brush, but not a real choice thanks to this guy.
Urination is natural, urine is 100% sterile, we drove all night 20 hours strait, drank about 4 gallons of coffee each, people will have to pee since we got to town, grabbed some good coffee and energy drinks, and hit the trail. We asked the rangers about this and the response was " what do the hikers, mountain bikers, and dirt riders do?" There are no bathrooms on the trail, So you use a rock.
Now this guy of course missed the fact that out of how ever many people came and went that day, our group was responsible for hauling about half the trash and wood left from the bike ramps and bridges, as well as trash from the Gondola tear down, 90% of the groups we watched drive by the site must have been blind, because the didn't even stop to read the 4x4 sign that said " please help remove trash". We stopped here to to load up and a couple Jeep guys blasted by up in a furry of hast, probably there rigs were to clean to carry trash.
And next, we had to fix someone who was stranded broken suspension link, as they had no tools or a welder, maybe we were in the trail then too, or maybe earlier when we had to fix an improperly welded spring hanger on a rig.
So my guess is the guy siting this blew little things out of proportion, possibly caused by unavoidable situations, then skipped the good things, which just don't make for a nasty conversation.
Thanks for the heads up Dan
TTYL Sky.

Good to see that S.O.R.D. had a chance to read what I had to say. Too bad, however, that I observed what I did. I haven't embellished anything. I wrote exactly what I saw.

I was on the Rim from right around 2:00pm to 5:30-ish. My group ran into the S.O.R.D. group at the big sand hill. Also at the sand hill were two Currie rigs...a white TJ and a green TJ buggy. As soon as we were out of the sand area and back up top is where I observed the commotion. There were specifically 2 rigs doing the most of the stuff. If I remember right, there was a white 4-runner with exo-cage stuff and a gray/green truggy. The white 4-runner had California plates, the other had Oregon tags.

My group had 4 rigs and the Currie boys were behind us. The 4-runner & the truck had a mini demolition derby on top. I'm not talking about driving on tires & posing for pics, I'm talking about full throttle reverse into the driver behind the 4-runner. The guy in the truck then rammed him. They then got locked into each other and the 4-runner spun onto the hood of the truck and then over a juniper tree...probably the only one there.

As we neared the look-out point, all of the SORD group stopped in the middle of the trail, turned off the motors and got out. They did not leave room to pass. There was not anyone in front of them. As we waited patiently, I did not see anyone form their group loading the trash or debris into any of their vehicles, quite the contrary actually. One guy, also wearing a SORD shirt, was on a mini-bike, dropping silver bullets off the side of the trail. In fact, I saw nearly everyone drinking quite a bit and by the looks of things may have had too much. The guy on the mini-bike left a can in the bushes just before the first drop as you make a left to descend back to the parking lot. Also at this point, the SORD group again stopped in the trail, right at the top of the obstacle as 3-4 rigs were trying to get up. Once the oncoming traffic got up the ledge, there was literally nowhere to go. Right between the oncoming traffic, after 2 of the 4 coming up got over the ledge, the SORD crowd decided it was their turn to go down...whatever happened to yielding to uphill traffic?

After that cluster, we continued to follow the SORD group back to the parking lot. Again, for no apparent reason, they stopped...all in the trail and got out to watch the traffic coming up the z-turn obstacle. At this point one of the SORD group finally waves us by, but there was nowhere to get by. One of them pulls off a little and my group of 4, plus the Currie guys slide by.

As we pass, the traffic coming up the z-turn causes us to hold up as they pass. As soon as those big ugly fiberglass bodied thingies got up the z-turn, the Curried guys blow past everyone and head down hill.

Again, didn't make any of it up. What I saw and experienced is NOT common off-road activity and is NOT what I consider acceptable. Perhaps they did travel a long distance that day, perhaps they had to pee a lot. So what? Use some decency and go behind a tree or rock, not right there in the trail. And if you are insistent on stopping every 5 minutes, let the traffic pass and pull off in a wider section of the road.

Who knows if this is their typical behavior. I would hope not. I and my group may just have happened to cross them on a bad day.

 

[Mother Deuce]

Interesting...I was right there too (black TJ with 2 kid seats in the back), fixing my junk while you were working on yours. Seemed as though you had plenty of company and spare parts.
I wasn't carrying any fluid, however, sorry.

We were definitely not lonely, those were our kids - way too big for kid seats even though they didn't act that way. We had tons of spare parts. Just not the right ones, isn't that the way it always goes? Last time on this route devil broke a U-joint so we had 2 spares.

Were you able to finish the route or did you have to take the bail-out road like we did?

 

[wildkid]

We were definitely not lonely, those were our kids - way too big for kid seats even though they didn't act that way. We had tons of spare parts. Just not the right ones, isn't that the way it always goes? Last time on this route devil broke a U-joint so we had 2 spares.

Were you able to finish the route or did you have to take the bail-out road like we did?

Yes, yes it is always like that...:-\

Because we were a group of one rig, we decided against trying to get up to Widow Maker and took the "quickest way out" road.

Did you have enough fluid in the system to brake at all?

 

[Mother Deuce]

Yes, yes it is always like that...:-\

Because we were a group of one rig, we decided against trying to get up to Widow Maker and took the "quickest way out" road.

Did you have enough fluid in the system to brake at all?

I actually did not lose much fluid. My husband pinched off the broken line with the skill of a vascular surgeon. :bow: Even though it pulled hard to one side I had good pressure in the lines. That combined with a crash course in hand-braking got us out safely.

FYI...the threaded connections on the TJ brake lines are not the ones they sell in the parts stores.

 

[mbryson]

........ We had tons of spare parts. Just not the right ones, isn't that the way it always goes? Last time on this route devil broke a U-joint so we had 2 spares. ........

Not if you have an XJ.....

 

[zukgod1]

Good to see that S.O.R.D. had a chance to read what I had to say. Too bad, however, that I observed what I did. I haven't embellished anything. I wrote exactly what I saw.

I was on the Rim from right around 2:00pm to 5:30-ish. My group ran into the S.O.R.D.............:

Skys reply below.


Well, thats somewhat interesting and could possibly be true, because I and most our group left before that incident, I stopped well ahead of others at the trash site with one other rig, little brown samurai, waited 15-20 minutes and finally the rest caught up. The Cali rig is our friend Scott, he's an old school Rubicon junkie, actually lives in South Lake, and we still haven't weened him from his old school attitudes, getting hammered and causing commotion. He also rolled over on Pritchett Canyon into a crowd of rigs, which were a little to close to the action, but it was still out of control and I spent a good hour arguing about his driving ability. Its hard to control people with this mind set, and after this year, I likely won't take him again.
I can picture the spot where we stopped, at the trash pile, I walked back 8-10 rigs and asked if anyone needed by, and It might have been one of the Currie Jeeps with John, I believe one of the owners who said they were in no hurry, so I figured the group behind them was with them. All these guys drove by without so much as looking at the trash pile, we have it on video....
Possibly many of us were delirious from the drive, as from the statements this isn't how we normally roll, and I being the man in charge, sure would have liked to manage the group better, but its not always possible to manage everyone at once.
As to James on the bike, he wasn't dropping cans, he was picking up people trash, also have that on video, its why we bring the CRF 50, less impact and more places faster than a truck to retrieve garbage.
I know and have video of what happened on most of the trip, but I'm ready to drop it as its not doing any good cause this guy apparently doesn't see what was going on, and its not worth trying to change someones idea of what they saw from 15 vehicles back. As to the trucks ramming ea other, we didn't get that and it was not appropriate. The owners have been reprimanded.
Sky.

 

[wildkid]

Skys reply below.


Well, thats somewhat interesting and could possibly be true, because I and most our group left before that incident, I stopped well ahead of others at the trash site with one other rig, little brown samurai, waited 15-20 minutes and finally the rest caught up. The Cali rig is our friend Scott, he's an old school Rubicon junkie, actually lives in South Lake, and we still haven't weened him from his old school attitudes, getting hammered and causing commotion. He also rolled over on Pritchett Canyon into a crowd of rigs, which were a little to close to the action, but it was still out of control and I spent a good hour arguing about his driving ability. Its hard to control people with this mind set, and after this year, I likely won't take him again.
I can picture the spot where we stopped, at the trash pile, I walked back 8-10 rigs and asked if anyone needed by, and It might have been one of the Currie Jeeps with John, I believe one of the owners who said they were in no hurry, so I figured the group behind them was with them. All these guys drove by without so much as looking at the trash pile, we have it on video....
Possibly many of us were delirious from the drive, as from the statements this isn't how we normally roll, and I being the man in charge, sure would have liked to manage the group better, but its not always possible to manage everyone at once.
As to James on the bike, he wasn't dropping cans, he was picking up people trash, also have that on video, its why we bring the CRF 50, less impact and more places faster than a truck to retrieve garbage.
I know and have video of what happened on most of the trip, but I'm ready to drop it as its not doing any good cause this guy apparently doesn't see what was going on, and its not worth trying to change someones idea of what they saw from 15 vehicles back. As to the trucks ramming ea other, we didn't get that and it was not appropriate. The owners have been reprimanded.
Sky.

Like I said earlier, good to hear from the other side. It is apparent that Sky is a strait-up person. Apparent also is that he is interested in the situation.

All I could have expected from my first post was to bring the situation to someone's attention and to possibly prevent it from occurring again. That seems to be the case here.

I appreciated sky's honesty and his willingness to look into things.

I apologize if I stated something that was incorrect, but I only mentioned that which I saw.

Thank you Zukgod for relaying the message. It was never my intention to e-bash anyone

 

[wildkid]

Oh, one more thing. Yes, on the way up the trail we did drive past the garbage pile without picking up anything. Figured we'd stop on the way back down. When we reached that area heading out, someone had removed the trash. This may well have been Sky's group ahead of the 5-6 rigs we were following.
If so, thank you.

On a side note, we didn't pass Sky's group until we reached the z-turn. There was another smaller group of mostly TJs (3-4 rigs) that did burn past us around the time we were near the overlook area.

Anyway, thanks again.

 

[TheBigSgt]

And here I sat in Hawaii missiing all the fun!