wayfarerUT
Registered User
- Location
- Utah
Emery County Acknowledges OHV threat
- Thread starter wayfarerUT
- Start date
scoutabout
None
Yes, very interesting. We're going to have to address the irresponsible OHV users among us if we want to win the access battle. It sure seems like there are two solutions. We can curtail irresponsible OHV use through increased enforcement, education, and penalties, or areas will be closed. The anti-access groups want the areas closed, so they aren't going to help us implement something that works. We're going to have to do it ourselves.
How does everyone feel about drastically increasing the fines for off-trail travel?
How does everyone feel about drastically increasing the fines for off-trail travel?
scoutabout
None
Yes definitely. I would propose that the money collected be used for things such as signage, increased education, and enforcement.
As it is now, I believe most land managers are very leniant in areas that are not clearly marked. I can't speak for everywhere, but I know that in the PG district of the Uinta (where I spend a lot of time with Rangers) that if there isn't clear signage, they usually won't issue a citation. They'll just give the person a verbal warning.
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I was blown away by that article. Personaly I think it is one or two people in the Emery county government that is behind the propaganda. With out the mining and tourism you might as well close the gate on the whole county because there is nothing else for jobs. I would bet the people behind the article don't have the backing of the majority.
Having said that and living in Price right next door and riding my four wheeler on a lot of the trails in emery county I see very little problems on the trails. People are doing a much better job of taking care of the envirment. cleaning up after them selfs, staying on the trail. People aren't perfect but they are learning to be better. Education is the key. When we see a problem we should take it on our selfs to set it right. These people demand perfection right now or kick ever one off goverment land. Who is this goverment any way?
Having said that and living in Price right next door and riding my four wheeler on a lot of the trails in emery county I see very little problems on the trails. People are doing a much better job of taking care of the envirment. cleaning up after them selfs, staying on the trail. People aren't perfect but they are learning to be better. Education is the key. When we see a problem we should take it on our selfs to set it right. These people demand perfection right now or kick ever one off goverment land. Who is this goverment any way?
jdub
Scrambler
- Location
- Provo, Utah.
In Utah county there were big problems while I was growing up with people Skateboarding in restricted areas. So what did they finnaly do??? They got smart and threw up some nice Skateparks! Problem Solved.
I've been chased like Dukes of Hazard outa areas that I had no Idea were closed. Some signs would be nice stating the conditions. I agree to higher penalties on the basis that someone has clearly ignored the signs posted. The Cops hounded me on regulations that weren't even posted.
I've been chased like Dukes of Hazard outa areas that I had no Idea were closed. Some signs would be nice stating the conditions. I agree to higher penalties on the basis that someone has clearly ignored the signs posted. The Cops hounded me on regulations that weren't even posted.
waynehartwig
www.jeeperman.com
- Location
- Mead, WA
I couldn't agree more. I have no problem with high fines for blatently (more than one tire) going off the trail, but I do have problems with it going into someones pockets or being used for something completely unrelated. It's gotta stay for the trails somehow - cleaning them up, signage, fences, etc.
I had the exact same thoughts, especially for being from Price.
I disagree, its taking the same approach thats always been taken. That we are the bad guys and we have no right to be on our lands so fine the living **** out of us for something that we pay taxes on?? Thats ludicrous, at least in my opinion. And do we want to be relagated to specific parks that we can access and not anything out on our own??
How about this, how about they show what has been destroyed, specifically, and what the resolution is. BLM and FS are paid to manage and maintain PUBLIC lands, they belong to us, they are only stewards. And we as taxpayers, have the right to use the land as we see fit. Does no one recall the Open travel areas that exist all over BLM, open travel, its exactly what it sounds like.. you can drive, walk, OHV whatever, whereever... There is simply no precedent for any new fines or any thing of that sort. I would suggest that someone ask for some evidence of this "rampant destruction" and if it can be shown, then tell the BLM that its up to them to fix the situation, not by closing areas but by signing and monitoring the areas.. If they dont have the budget to do that then thats their problem.
In the meantime, Im going to head down to Emery County and see who I can talk to in the beginning of the year. Make it known that this isnt a 4wd problem, its a conservationalist problem. That problem being that all the conservationalists have to do is say there is a problem and everyone jumps. Maybe start some concessions that are supported by the 4wd community, such as, if they have such an issue with offroaders, then the offroad community as a whole, should boycott Emery County, no off roading, no buying gas, dont do ANYTHING 4wd related in emery county. See how much of a tax base they lose and how fast thier opinions change. Its really time to start taking a different approach and bite this PC **** in the ass.
How about this, how about they show what has been destroyed, specifically, and what the resolution is. BLM and FS are paid to manage and maintain PUBLIC lands, they belong to us, they are only stewards. And we as taxpayers, have the right to use the land as we see fit. Does no one recall the Open travel areas that exist all over BLM, open travel, its exactly what it sounds like.. you can drive, walk, OHV whatever, whereever... There is simply no precedent for any new fines or any thing of that sort. I would suggest that someone ask for some evidence of this "rampant destruction" and if it can be shown, then tell the BLM that its up to them to fix the situation, not by closing areas but by signing and monitoring the areas.. If they dont have the budget to do that then thats their problem.
In the meantime, Im going to head down to Emery County and see who I can talk to in the beginning of the year. Make it known that this isnt a 4wd problem, its a conservationalist problem. That problem being that all the conservationalists have to do is say there is a problem and everyone jumps. Maybe start some concessions that are supported by the 4wd community, such as, if they have such an issue with offroaders, then the offroad community as a whole, should boycott Emery County, no off roading, no buying gas, dont do ANYTHING 4wd related in emery county. See how much of a tax base they lose and how fast thier opinions change. Its really time to start taking a different approach and bite this PC **** in the ass.
scoutabout
None
It would only affect the irresponsible users among us who disregard trail ethics and Tread Lightly principles to create their own trails or cause damage to an area.
From personal experience, I can tell you that new, illegal ATV routes are created up AF Canyon almost every weekend during the summer. The damage that we see occurring at Forest Lake on a weekly basis is another example.
Right, they are stewards. There's no requirement for them to maintain recreational access. Their focus is the health and longevity of the land they manage. If irresponsible and unchecked OHV use is causing long term damage, then their response is closure.
Ideally maybe, but practically, no. If everyone ripped through whatever meadow or stand of trees they wanted to cross, there wouldn't be anything left to enjoy except scarred land.
Right, you couldn't fine someone for riding off trail in an open travel area. I'm referring to fines for people who drive off trail or damage resources in "designated routes only" areas. By the end of 2008, there won't be any open travel areas left. Only areas like the dunes will be left.
That would be nice, but like I said, their mission is to preserve the land not maintain it for recreational use. If they can't protect an area from irresponsible OHV use, they'll close it. Maybe that's not how it should be, but that's how it is. If we want to maintain motorized access to public lands we MUST stop irresponsible OHV use. The anti-access groups won't do it. They just want to close the land to ALL OHV use. We need to be the ones to take the lead and remove irresponsible use.
I'm really surprised that some people (others outside this forum) are against fining irresponsible OHV use. It's one of the major complaints cited by anti-access groups to support closures. If irresponsible use was eliminated, they wouldn't have as much ammo against us.
waynehartwig
www.jeeperman.com
- Location
- Mead, WA
For fear of sounding wishy washy, I'd like to change my answer to this...
I agree with both, to a point. We can't take off cross country and ruin the lands, just because it's open travel and because you can. Regardless if we are tax payers or illegal imigrants.
I don't need the BLM to prove the destruction of public lands, I see it evertime I go out wheelin' or drivin' on a dirt road, hell even paved roads.
Emery county doesn't get their $'s from 4wd use, and taking it away would be very doubtful that anyone would miss it in their pocket books. This threat may work in Moab, but not Huntington. For one, all of the land that is really worth exploring, is already closed (the Swell).
I really think stiffer penalties for those that blatently destroy our lands is a good thing - as long as the $'s recovered go back (directly) into lands and not paying for law suits, salaries, etc. If it's more policing/signage/education that needs to be done, heavier fines could be one of the ways to pay for it.
To night I talked to my brother who is big in the land use in Carbon county and his best friend who lives in Castle dale also active in land use in Emery county, though that the article sounded fishy. The media is against us and they will use there influence to get their way be it true or not. We have to police ourself to keep public land accessable.
My last trip through Devils Race track I was impressed with how well it looked out there. I saw very few problems areas, there were places were some one had gotten of the trail, and then some one had laid sticks rocks and brush over thoughs spots so you would know not to do than again. It wasn't the BLM who is fixing the trails, it was the people the Emery county 4 wheeler club. Believe me you would not want them catching you off the trail. I know one couple in the late 60's who ride that tail once or twice a month to check on the trail and pick up trash and do trail repair. They even had a hidden game counter so they would know how many people were using the trail each month. I also know a lady form the BLM who would spend up to a week on the trails documenting the damage from public use. She doesn't work out of this office any more, something about turning in false reports and the director just couldn't take her any more. Her goal was to close the trails. If you've see the pole fence around the sand dune thats was hers. Its a very steep up hill battle for those who want to use the land.
My last trip through Devils Race track I was impressed with how well it looked out there. I saw very few problems areas, there were places were some one had gotten of the trail, and then some one had laid sticks rocks and brush over thoughs spots so you would know not to do than again. It wasn't the BLM who is fixing the trails, it was the people the Emery county 4 wheeler club. Believe me you would not want them catching you off the trail. I know one couple in the late 60's who ride that tail once or twice a month to check on the trail and pick up trash and do trail repair. They even had a hidden game counter so they would know how many people were using the trail each month. I also know a lady form the BLM who would spend up to a week on the trails documenting the damage from public use. She doesn't work out of this office any more, something about turning in false reports and the director just couldn't take her any more. Her goal was to close the trails. If you've see the pole fence around the sand dune thats was hers. Its a very steep up hill battle for those who want to use the land.
offroaddave
It's just one term!
- Location
- sunset
Ironically, Emery County joined the state in suing the federal Bureau of Land Management over its closure of some roads in the San Rafael Swell to protect sensitive lands. That lawsuit demonstrated a shortsighted lack of concern. All the more reason to commend the county's sober reassessment of the havoc created by OHV users who thumb their noses at backcountry rules.
What the hell does this mean?
When the county does something the greenies don't like, there a bunch of drunken rednecks, but when they want to keep people on the trails then they finally sobered up.
It's great that stories like this get people talking, but the extreme bias is not very Sobering.
What the hell does this mean?
When the county does something the greenies don't like, there a bunch of drunken rednecks, but when they want to keep people on the trails then they finally sobered up.
It's great that stories like this get people talking, but the extreme bias is not very Sobering.
scoutabout
None
Ironically, Emery County joined the state in suing the federal Bureau of Land Management over its closure of some roads in the San Rafael Swell to protect sensitive lands. That lawsuit demonstrated a shortsighted lack of concern. All the more reason to commend the county's sober reassessment of the havoc created by OHV users who thumb their noses at backcountry rules.
What the hell does this mean?
When the county does something the greenies don't like, there a bunch of drunken rednecks, but when they want to keep people on the trails then they finally sobered up.
It's great that stories like this get people talking, but the extreme bias is not very Sobering.
I don't see it as ironic, but rather an indicator of the state of affairs in OHV use. The county wants to support OHV use and tourism in their area, but not at the cost of extreme damage to natural resources caused by irresponsible behavior. OHV use and environmental protection are not mutually exclusive. I'm glad to see the county is pro-OHV use, while seeking an appropriate balance with environmental stewardship.