Emissions vs. swap

H-K

INFIDEL
Supporting Member
Location
SLC UT, USA
Background: Swapping 1991 GM 350 TBI w/ TH700-R4 into 1990 YJ 4.2l w/ AX-15 & NP231. Must pass Davis County emissions standards.

:confused:I know the topic is tired, but I've tried to do my homework before asking for help. From what I've gathered, in order for a vehicle with a transplanted engine to pass emissions, you have to demonstrate that the emissions output of the vehicle does not exceed the original engine's emissions output. I've taken this to mean that if the original engine has EGR, PCV, catalytic converter, and air injection, that the replacement engine must have the same (assuming the engine is equally or more efficient than the original). Please correct me if i'm misinterpreting this.

If my interpretation is correct, then I assume a TBI 350 GM is more efficient than the 4.2l because I've read and heard that the design of the intake, exhaust, and head on the 4.2 is a model for inefficiency while the SBC with various heads is a fairly efficient design. Although I've heard/read this repeatedly, it's too weak for me to base a deci$ion on and would appreciate some help/guidance from somebody who is more knowledgeable and experienced than I.

Thinking ahead under the above assumptions, I plan on using the EGR, PCV, and catalytic converter spec'd for the donor engine. Air injection is apparently handled differently on the GM than it is on the Jeep. Correct me if I'm wrong about any of the following (I'm emissions-ignorant, but trying to learn fast, so I may have misunderstood what i've read). The GM uses a garden-variety belt-driven air pump to force air drawn from the air cleaner into the catalytic converter. Other than a check valve and a ECM-controlled solenoid valve, it's pretty simple compared to the system on the Jeep. The Jeep does not have an air pump and instead uses vacuum (I'm guessing here on the actual mechanism that draws air into the system) to inject air into the exhaust system at two points. The first point (upstream) is somewhere in the exhaust manifold and the second is in the cat itself. A computer-controlled solenoid bypass valve delivers air to the exhaust manifold at cold startup and once the engine has warmed, switches the delivery to the catalytic converter. I realize I don't have a great understanding of this, so please have mercy on me -- I'm trying. A few hours ago I couldn't tell you what any of the emissions components do and couldn't tell an EGR valve from a charcoal canister.

Now, what I'm trying to figure out, before I really dig in and figure out all the details about the Jeep air injection system, is if I can use the simpler air-pump system from the GM and pass emissions.

Although I want to give it a good shot and am willing to spend a few bjucks to do it right, I'm getting kinda PO'd at how difficult the unclear/vague laws are to interpret and am tempted to pick up and move to some county where I can just run headers out the fenders in spite. ;)

Any help is appreciated.

Cheers

PS: Is anybody aware of any governmental resources that can help me with this? I mean is there a referee station ro something where I can ask for official advice/guidance on what I need to do to pass?
 

H-K

INFIDEL
Supporting Member
Location
SLC UT, USA
Yeah, thought about that, but...

I fear that once you fail, you're on their records as such and thus on the radar. The biggest reason I don't want to try it that way is that I'm bleeding around $7K into this project and a ton of time (my first time doing this so it will take me a lot longer than others) and before I jump headlong into this, I want to feel confident that i'm not going to end up with a $15K lawn ornament.
 

scramble this

Umm.. Where am I?
Location
West Jordan, UT
In salt lake county (assuming davis is very similar) the basic idea to keep it legal is you have to to the health department, tell them what you plan to do (the new engine must be the same year or newer as the vehicle and retain all of its original emissions equipment fully functional), have them ok it, do the swap, take it back to the health department to have it tested, if it passes then your good, BUT from then on when you have it tested you have to take it back to the HD every year for the test. Im about 95% sure this is correct, but again this is for Salt Lake County. Probably the bes thing to do is call the health department and ask them.
 

H-K

INFIDEL
Supporting Member
Location
SLC UT, USA
In salt lake county (assuming davis is very similar) the basic idea to keep it legal is you have to to the health department, tell them what you plan to do (the new engine must be the same year or newer as the vehicle and retain all of its original emissions equipment fully functional), have them ok it, do the swap, take it back to the health department to have it tested, if it passes then your good, BUT from then on when you have it tested you have to take it back to the HD every year for the test. Im about 95% sure this is correct, but again this is for Salt Lake County. Probably the bes thing to do is call the health department and ask them.

Thanks for the advice. Sounds like if I talk to them ahead of time, they might be able to tell me what I need to do to be compliant. Hopefully they know what they are talking about.
 

DaveB

Long Jeep Fan
Location
Holladay, Utah
In salt lake county (assuming davis is very similar) the basic idea to keep it legal is you have to to the health department, tell them what you plan to do (the new engine must be the same year or newer as the vehicle and retain all of its original emissions equipment fully functional), have them ok it, do the swap, take it back to the health department to have it tested, if it passes then your good, BUT from then on when you have it tested you have to take it back to the HD every year for the test. Im about 95% sure this is correct, but again this is for Salt Lake County. Probably the bes thing to do is call the health department and ask them.

When I put a 99 jeep 4.0 into my 84 cj8 I checked with the county emissions people and was told the same thing. I asked them why they couldn't do the initial testing and give me a document that said it was good so that I didn't have to go back every year but they said no. After doing the swap I went to my local emissions testing place just to see if they would give me the line that I would have to have it tested by the county. They spent almost an hour testing it because they didn't believe the results. They finally came out and said "that is one clean jeep". They have tested it every year since then without any issues. I did put in all of the newer emissions stuff so that it would be legal.
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
When I put a 99 jeep 4.0 into my 84 cj8 I checked with the county emissions people and was told the same thing. I asked them why they couldn't do the initial testing and give me a document that said it was good so that I didn't have to go back every year but they said no. After doing the swap I went to my local emissions testing place just to see if they would give me the line that I would have to have it tested by the county. They spent almost an hour testing it because they didn't believe the results. They finally came out and said "that is one clean jeep". They have tested it every year since then without any issues. I did put in all of the newer emissions stuff so that it would be legal.



That's been my experience. If your more modern engine is running even close to correctly, you'll pass better than the 4.2L that was originally in there. The guy that inspected mine first just wanted to make sure it had better tailpipe emissions than the 4.0L that came in the Jeep originally.

I'm running a high mile, 5.7L TBI motor in my Jeep.
 

H-K

INFIDEL
Supporting Member
Location
SLC UT, USA
That's been my experience. If your more modern engine is running even close to correctly, you'll pass better than the 4.2L that was originally in there. The guy that inspected mine first just wanted to make sure it had better tailpipe emissions than the 4.0L that came in the Jeep originally.

I'm running a high mile, 5.7L TBI motor in my Jeep.

Thanks to everybody for their input.

mbryson, I've heard that Davis County are real sticklers for emissions stuff. Has this been your experience? ( I assume you still live in Woods Cross)
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Thanks to everybody for their input.

mbryson, I've heard that Davis County are real sticklers for emissions stuff. Has this been your experience? ( I assume you still live in Woods Cross)


I spent a little time with my safety/emissions inspector before doing the swap. I also called Davis County Emissions 4 times and got the same answers each time. I figured I was in the clear.

My diesel is still registered out of county because Davis is a PAIN to deal with.
 

gertsch

Well-Known Member
Location
West Bountiful
ok so a 90 the only thing u can do is keep your 4.2l from what i know and have been told. I work at the davis county i/m tech center in kaysville and have been looking for loop holes to putting a ls2 in my 97 tj but so far no go. the person you would want ot talk to is Collin Burton he could tell you everything u need to know. My name is Alex and if u have any questions feel free to stop by and ask for me. Also this mBryson be carful about your diesel the auditors here have been cracking down on false vehicle locations if they find u opperate it in davis county more than were it is registered they will have a hay day with yeah so just one fellow woods cross guy to another.
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
...... Also this mBryson be carful about your diesel the auditors here have been cracking down on false vehicle locations if they find u opperate it in davis county more than were it is registered they will have a hay day with yeah so just one fellow woods cross guy to another.



It gets used in Cache Valley as much as Davis County. With the hassle of getting it emissioned in Davis, I'm happy to pay the taxes to Cache when I'm up there.
 

1993yj

.
Location
Salt Lake
I have never heard of the part of having the health department check it every year. As far as I read, the engine has to be newer than the vehicle (ie. no putting older enginges in newer vehicles). My brother has a rig with a different motor in it and he did not take it to the HD to register it. He also had it registered back to street use as it was OHV when he bought it.
 

gertsch

Well-Known Member
Location
West Bountiful
good u should be safe with your diesel than. I just hate dealing with the diesel stuff i test the diesels here every other month. And the soot that comes out of some of these boneheads diesels is going to kill me cause they don't know how to properly modify there trucks. My friends diesel cracks out over 900 lbs ft torque and is cleaner than most new diesel off the lot.
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
good u should be safe with your diesel than. I just hate dealing with the diesel stuff i test the diesels here every other month. And the soot that comes out of some of these boneheads diesels is going to kill me cause they don't know how to properly modify there trucks. My friends diesel cracks out over 900 lbs ft torque and is cleaner than most new diesel off the lot.



I do hope they change that policy. Most of our other car registration stuff gets sent up there until we change it. Then we register the truck and everything gets sent up there again. It's kind of annoying. Almost annoying enough to take a day off to get my truck emissioned.

Why can that test only be done in Kaysville. I'm NEVER in Kaysville....(sorry about the rant)
 

gertsch

Well-Known Member
Location
West Bountiful
Because no one else wants to put the stuff in to run the tests in davis county. But you can get your diesel tested in salt lake if thats more conveniant for you its the same test as we do. I don't know who in salt lake does them though so i'm no help there sorry. But if you have questions on standards and such i'll try to answer them the best i can and i'm willing to find out suff if needed cause thats what i'm here for.
 

H-K

INFIDEL
Supporting Member
Location
SLC UT, USA
ok so a 90 the only thing u can do is keep your 4.2l from what i know and have been told. I work at the davis county i/m tech center in kaysville and have been looking for loop holes to putting a ls2 in my 97 tj but so far no go. the person you would want ot talk to is Collin Burton he could tell you everything u need to know. My name is Alex and if u have any questions feel free to stop by and ask for me. Also this mBryson be carful about your diesel the auditors here have been cracking down on false vehicle locations if they find u opperate it in davis county more than were it is registered they will have a hay day with yeah so just one fellow woods cross guy to another.


Great, thanks for the info. That's pretty disappointing. I think I'd better move. Seriously, if there's no recourse/flexibility (even though I'm willing to fork out time and $ to get emissions equipment working properly), then I'll just have to move out of this crap county. Anybody wanna buy a house?:mad:

It's not going to be a daily driver, and will be used mostly in Moab, so maybe I should register it there (assuming my motor swap is okay with Grand County)
 

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Great, thanks for the info. That's pretty disappointing. I think I'd better move. Seriously, if there's no recourse/flexibility (even though I'm willing to fork out time and $ to get emissions equipment working properly), then I'll just have to move out of this crap county. Anybody wanna buy a house?:mad:

It's not going to be a daily driver, and will be used mostly in Moab, so maybe I should register it there (assuming my motor swap is okay with Grand County)


That's kinda my feeling on Davis county emissions. It was easier to deal with in Salt Lake County when I lived there.
 
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