F150/Jeep YJ axle swap

[SundancKid]

Has anyone installed Ford F150 axles (Dana 44 front Ford 9" rear) into a Jeep YJ?

 

[Bone Down]

Has anyone installed Ford F150 axles (Dana 44 front Ford 9" rear) into a Jeep YJ?

yes many times.... google it and you will find several write ups, I am not positive on the donor years, but I have stumbled across many writes while doing research on SOA conversions for my YJ.

 

[SundancKid]

I searched prior to posting and found three main write ups and several copies of them. The problem with the write ups is they all had quirky things. One did an SOA with a shackle reversal. The other two shortened the axles. I thing they all used Bronco axles, and for sure one did a F250 axle with the integral leaf spring mount. I found a really good one on a TJ but I have a YJ.

I guess my real questions are;

With SOA, 2" lift springs and a CV shaft does the front axle angle effect castor and will I need to rotate the knuckles to regain castor?

How wide are the axles? More importantly how much wider then a YJ? I've read differing information, some say shorter at 59" some say wider at 65".

I'd love better information or links on swaping Chevy knuckles. Ideally I'd like to use all the Ford pieces and just use the Chevy knuckles. I think I read this is possible, but the write ups are confusing.

 

[Bone Down]

I guess my real questions are;

With SOA, 2" lift springs and a CV shaft does the front axle angle effect castor and will I need to rotate the knuckles to regain castor?

If it is the correct year then no as it should be a high pinion D44 and you will most likely not effect the castor at all with 2" and SOA and not even need to utilize a CV for the front.

I am currently 2" SOA on a Low Pinion D44 and I did not have to cut he 'Cs' to maintain castor and my castor is only off by 1.5* from factory.

How wide are the axles? More importantly how much wider then a YJ? I've read differing information, some say shorter at 59" some say wider at 65".

The width will all depend on the donor vehicle if you can provide year/make/model I am sure most of the subscribers here can help with determining the axle widths.

I'd love better information or links on swaping Chevy knuckles. Ideally I'd like to use all the Ford pieces and just use the Chevy knuckles. I think I read this is possible, but the write ups are confusing.

Check out this site Mr. N's Dana axle guide this is good information to read and may help you with what axle parts are compatible with others and I am going off of memory; but I think chevy and full size jeep axle parts are compatible, but not Ford and Chevy, still read his guide and others here might add their knowledge from past experience.

Good luck with the project and remember everyone likes pictures on the high speed net.

 

[Kiel]

Aren't YJ's drivers drop? I'd just use a 78-79 ford bronco HP 44 and Rear 9

 

[forotacobra]

The Chevy Knuckles Will Fit The Ford . I Put The Ford Knuckles On A Chevy Housing.

 

[cherokeeman87]

i dont know how hard your going with your jeep but you can also pick up a rear sterling 10.25 and convert front end to, i believe 1 ton or 3/4 ton steering and all with the hp44 to match the back with just bolt ons. the biggest thing is the size of pumpkin on sterling but would be sweet!!

 

[SundancKid]

Bone Down, the donor vehicle is a 77 F-150. I drove my Jeep behind the truck and eyeballed the axle lengths and it looks like I'll gain about an inch or so on both sides with the Ford axles.

It's good to know I'll be ok on the castor. I took a good look at it yesterday and it looked like the angles would be ok.

WJ Zuk, the Bronco axles as far as I know are a litle narrow and don't have the HP 44. I might be wong? I own the F-150 so that is my main motivation over Bronco axles.

forotacobra, So I should be able to use the Chevy spindles with all the rest Ford or do I need to use the Chevy spindle too? I think I read something about a C-clip washer dealio that was too short or some such?

cherokeeman87, I'm actually over building it for my intended use. I'm not too hard on vehicles the Dana 35 has done me fine thus far. I intend to run 35's or 37's and wheel 4 to 4.5 trails at the most. I'm not core enough for major body damage type wheeling.

I will definitely post some pics. This will probably be a winter project.

Given my use what are your opinions on SOA or SUA? Right now I fit 35's with; SUA, 2-3" lift springs, 1.5" shackles, 2" body lift (approx 7" total). I'm thinking if I go SOA I'll replace the lift shackles with reguar height shackles and gain approx 2" over what I have now. If I do go SOA then I know the temptation for 37's is gonna be there. What is your opinion on 37's? with the Dana 44 and Ford 9? Also what gearing do you recomend? I was thinking 4.56 gears nothing crazy.

 

[Bone Down]

I went SOA with 2" lift springs I went from 31's to 35's over all gain with SOA and tires was 10" of lift over stock. If that helps out at all.

If you all ready have the F150 Donor then the sure thing bet is to whip out the tape measure with a buddy and measure the wms to wms (wheel mount surface) and with the tires on measure the outside tire to outside tire if they are the same width as you intend to run then you will know what your over all width will be then you can adjust this by varying the back spacing on your wheels.

I am guessing around the 65-67 inch wide mark on the wms stock YJ should be around 58".

Stock height of Jeep to rocker panels - 18"
Wheelbase length of the YJ - 93.5"
Wheelbase width of the YJ - 57"
Ground clearance - 9"

I stumbled across this doing an axle search: *seems on par from what I have found and read*
'41 to 45 Jeep MB: 48.25"
'46 up CJ-2A, CJ-3A : 48.25"
'49-65 Jeep Utility Wagon: 57"
'49 Willys Jeepster 2WD 57"
'52 up CJ-3B: 48.44"
'52 M-38A 49.19" (Military width)
'54-71 CJ-5 48.44" (so called early-
'55-75 CJ-6 48.44" narrow axle)
'47-65 Pickup (the classic) frnt-56" rr-63.5"
'63-69 J-200, J-2000 65.5"
'63-69 J-300, J-3800 65.75"
'70- 72, Gladiator J-2000 frnt-63.5" rr-63.81"
'70- 72, Gladiator J-4000 frnt-63.8" rr-64.38"
'73 J-2500 frnt-63.5" rr-63.8"
'73 all other J trucks frnt-63.9" rr-64.4"
'74-75 J-10 frnt-62.9" rr-63.8"
'76-87 J-10 frnt-63.3" rr-63.8"
'74-75 J-20 frnt-62.9" rr-64.4"
with disc brakes: frnt-63.0" rr-64.4"
'76-84 J-20 frnt-64.9" rr-65.9"
'63-72 Wagoneer 57"
'73 Wagoneer frnt-57.3" rr-57.5"
'74-75 Wagoneer frnt-59" rr-57.5"
'74-75 Cherokee (full size) frnt-58.8' rr-57.5"
'76-91 Wagoneer, '80+ Cher frnt-59.4" rr-57.8"
'76-79 Cherokee (full size) frnt-59.2" rr-57.8"
'76-78 Cherokee S frnt-59.5" rr-58.5"
'76-80 Cherokee Chief 2 dr. frnt-65.4" rr-62.3"
'81-83 Cherokee Chief 2 dr. frnt-65.3" rr-62.3"
'67-71 Jeepster C-101 50"
'72-73 Commando C-104 frnt-51.5" rr-50"
'72-83 CJ-5, frnt-51.5" rr-50" (so called-
'76-81 CJ-7, CJ-8 ('81 only) frnt-51.5" rr-50" narrow axle)
'82-86 CJ-7 frnt-55.8" rr-55" (so called-
'82-85 Scrambler, CJ-8 frnt-55.8" rr-55" wide axle )
'84-87, 93 up Cherokee XJ 58"
'88-92 Cherokee XJ 57"
'86-92 Comanche, 57"
'87 up Wrangler, YJ 58"
'93 up Grand Cherokee, ZJ 58"


I think that the F150 D44 is coil axle and seemed like there was something funny about the radius arm mounts, but I have never dealt with this axle so hopefully someone else on here can chime in if it is an easy swap or not.

If the numbers are correct and your F150 axles are 65" vs. 58" that is a difference of 7 inches (3.5" per side) you can make up the difference with 6" fender flares and an increse in the back spacing.

Stock backspacing on jeep wheels is 5.5" most drop that to 3-4" when purchasing new wheels and wider tires, seems that 3.5" and 3.75" are the most popular, I am not a rim expert but I think you could run 6" back spacing and the flares and probably keep the wheels covered.

Hope this helps.

 

[SundancKid]

My axle wms to wms is more then 58" I measure mine at 61 1/2". By my eye-measurement I'd guess the F-150 axles are 65" or 1 1/2" wider per side. I'd measure it with a tape, but it's in a field and I haven't felt like playing in the weeds and mud just yet.

The axle does have coils and a radius rod suspension. Notice the bolt on brackets.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/166247/fullsize/droop_after.jpg

You know it would be kinda interesting to swap the whole suspension. It's no differant then the aftermarket kits The ones that bolt the upper arm to the lower arm on TJs and coilover kits. http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/retjextreme/images/test-frontfles_280.jpg

Hmmm scary... junkyard coilover front suspension swap. You saw it here first lol.

 

[Brett]

1977 Ford driver drop D44 = High Pinion

 

[DevinB]

....forotacobra, So I should be able to use the Chevy spindles with all the rest Ford or do I need to use the Chevy spindle too? I think I read something about a C-clip washer dealio that was too short or some such?....

You have to use a chevy spindle with a chevy knuckle, or a ford spindle with a ford knuckle. Chevy spindles are six-bolt, whereas the Ford's are five-bolt. Since early chevy and FSJ knuckles are the best supply for high steer, plan on using chevy spindles with chevy knuckles, chevy calipers, and Ford rotors if you want high steer and retain your five-lug bolt pattern on your rims.

 

[Bone Down]

My axle wms to wms is more then 58" I measure mine at 61 1/2".

On which vehcle? the F150 or the YJ?
I swapped in Waggy axles and with my front waggy measuring 62" wms2wms I can tell you that it was/is a very noticeable increase in width over my stock D30 that I pulled, so much so that I had to purchase 6" fender flares and the tires still stick out past the flares ever so slightly.

The rear AMC20 that I had installed was 58" as listed on the above chart, I have recently swapped that for a 59" D44.

Web states that your F150 axles should be 65"; but best way to confirm is (with the assist of a second person) to measure since you have all the axles available.

At this point it is mute since no matter how you stack it the F150 axles are for sure wider than your stock YJ axles.
They will fit and you will need to make the needed adjustments to do so.
Running the F150 setup has been done before and another friend of mine is thinking of doing the same thing and staying SUA in the rear once done.

Stock F150 Front coils installed on an XJ usually nets around 3.5-4.5 inches of lift and a noticeably firmer ride.
With that in mind you could expect around the same or a bit more if you utilize the stock bracketry and coil buckets, as the 44 is a bit thicker than the 30.

 

[SundancKid]

DevinB, thank you, that is exactly the info I needed.

Bone Down, 61 1/2" on my YJ. I have 0 offset wheels and 6" flares. The tires are completely under the flares.

I did a ton of research and I really do think I'm gonna go coils up front using the Ford suspension. It depends where the front suspension sits after its all said and done weither I go SOA or SUA in the front.

Has anyone seen or heard of this being done on a Wrangler?

 

[Caleb]

On which vehcle? the F150 or the YJ?
I swapped in Waggy axles and with my front waggy measuring 62" wms2wms I can tell you that it was/is a very noticeable increase in width over my stock D30 that I pulled, so much so that I had to purchase 6" fender flares and the tires still stick out past the flares ever so slightly.

well, your stock YJ axles were 61" wms-wms so 1" of width isn't huge (.5" per side, actually shouldn't even have been noticeable). Most likely the big difference though is the wheels. Different offset (backspace) will make a huge difference. If you were running stock Jeep rims before then they are usually around 5"-7" of backspacing, most after-market 15" rims are 3.75 or shallower backspace.

I swapped a Waggy 44 and an EB 9" in my YJ way back when...IMO, swapping axles on a leaf sprung vehicle is always the same deal. You may have a little extra grinding here or there but it's all the same thing.

 

[Bone Down]

well, your stock YJ axles were 61" wms-wms so 1" of width isn't huge (.5" per side, actually shouldn't even have been noticeable). Most likely the big difference though is the wheels. Different offset (backspace) will make a huge difference. If you were running stock Jeep rims before then they are usually around 5"-7" of backspacing, most after-market 15" rims are 3.75 or shallower backspace.

I swapped a Waggy 44 and an EB 9" in my YJ way back when...IMO, swapping axles on a leaf sprung vehicle is always the same deal. You may have a little extra grinding here or there but it's all the same thing.

They were not stock wheels at all, neither are the ones that I have installed now.


This is how they sat before...

Then after....

It is most likely the wheels went from 8's to 10's 10.5's to 12.5's but it made a differnece, all the more reason to make sure you mock it all up properly and it should work out.

 

[Bone Down]

DevinB, thank you, that is exactly the info I needed.

Bone Down, 61 1/2" on my YJ. I have 0 offset wheels and 6" flares. The tires are completely under the flares.

I did a ton of research and I really do think I'm gonna go coils up front using the Ford suspension. It depends where the front suspension sits after its all said and done weither I go SOA or SUA in the front.

Has anyone seen or heard of this being done on a Wrangler?

If you had done a ton of research then you would have all ready known what Devin pointed out as it is stated on Mr. N's Dana axle guide (posted earlier).
All wheels have offset either negative or positive, positive offset is what most people refer to as back spacing.

If you are going coils up front then I am afraid you are stuck with SOA since the coils usually sit on top of the axle, unless you are not going to run the stock ford setup and get you a sweet set of coil overs then you can set it up front/top/rear side of the axle, or you can run leaf springs SUA/SOA.

Seems coil front and leaf sua rear would be a fun setup and would wheel real well.

Post pics and enjoy the setup (which ever one you choose to use).

 

[SundancKid]

If you had done a ton of research then you would have all ready known what Devin pointed out as it is stated on Mr. N's Dana axle guide (posted earlier).

The ton of research was in reference to the Ford radius rod suspension or rather installing it into late model Fords. I previously posted that I was confused about the Ford/Chevy parts that would interchange. I read Mr. N's Dana axle write ups prior to posting this thread and it was his article that caused the confusion. I understood what I read, but there was contradictory information on other sites. Fact is I won't really know till I get in there and do it. I find it very benificial to ask questions first and learn from others experience. I'm very fortunate that Devin was patient enough to answer my question and I wanted to thank him.

All wheels have offset either negative or positive, positive offset is what most people refer to as back spacing.

An 8" wide rim can have 4.5 inches of backspace and 0 (zero) offset. Offset is the measurement of the wheel mounting surface to the wheel centerline. In the example I just gave, an 8" wheel measures 9" wide total. Half of 9" is 4.5". If the wheel mounting surface is perfectly centered on the wheel you will have 0 offset. Weither you consider zero offset positive or negative is really a mute point.

If you are going coils up front then I am afraid you are stuck with SOA since the coils usually sit on top of the axle, unless you are not going to run the stock ford setup and get you a sweet set of coil overs then you can set it up front/top/rear side of the axle, or you can run leaf springs SUA/SOA.

My meaning here is if I go with the OEM Ford coil spring arangement in the front, I will mount the front suspension and see where it sits height wise before I determine if the rear suspension is SOA or SUA. I was refering to the rear spring arangement not the front.

Seems coil front and leaf sua rear would be a fun setup and would wheel real well.

I'm thinking this could be a really easy swap, and man would it be neat to have an inexpensive front coil convertion option. From the pics I've seen this should flex umbeliveably well, and from what I have read should have great street manners too.

Post pics and enjoy the setup (which ever one you choose to use).

If this works as planned I'll probably do a full write up.

Does anyone have a YJ frame near Ogden that I could use for eyeballing and non-permanant mock up?

 

[Bone Down]

Does anyone have a YJ frame near Ogden that I could use for eyeballing and non-permanant mock up?

Do a search on here for YJ Frames... it seems not to long ago (maybe 2-3 months) there was a guy in the ogden area that was trying to sale a frame a tub for pretty cheap, I will look as well maybe the two of you can work something out.

 

[SundancKid]

Looky what I found;



I've contacted the owner, hopefully he will reply back and share some info. It looks like it is as easy as I thought it would be.

I believe those are 39's with stock TJ coils.