Forest Lake off-trail

[Kevin B.]

Before I make waves - the mud/dirt flat on the western shore of Forest Lake, is that off-trail? I saw brown carsonite posts that looked like "don't go here posts", but I didn't look close to verify.

 

[RogueJeepr]

Yes , thats off trail . They are trying to keep people from going into the lake (The mudhole on the side).

 

[Kevin B.]

There was no mud to speak of in there yesterday, it was fairly dry. There was, however, a pair of late model Wranglers that blew right by those posts and parked next to the lake there, a silver 4door with an Energy Suspension windshield banner and an orange and brown 4door with a giant TeraFlex graphic on the side and an Energy Suspension windshield banner. They sat there for a minute or two watching us watching them, then they drove off.

If that is off-trail, I really hope that was just a couple guys pimping manufacturer stickers and not company-sponsored or -owned rigs.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

If that is off-trail, I really hope that was just a couple guys pimping manufacturer stickers and not company-sponsored or -owned rigs.

We can only hope....

 

[jmaxj]

We can only hope....

Don't hope too much, I'm pretty sure I know one of them and he does work for teraflex

 

[Kevin B.]

That's too bad. I hope TeraFlex sees this and has something to say to them. The ground was dry and I'm sure they didn't do any damage, but closed is closed. Every time a ranger sees fresh tire tracks heading past one of those carsonite posts, they get that much closer to closing the trail for good.

Props to Utah 4x4 Club though, the trail was nice and clean and the fences were good, they made it clear what areas were off limits without being obtrusive. Very cool trail! If you guys want more hands on your next cleanup/maintenance run, post up over here and I'll be there!

 

[ret32]

In addition to the carsonites that are attached to the 4x4 posts, the last project we did we also drug a dozen or more logs down there to help delineate that it was the lake high water mark that is off limits.

Sounds like those logs have been moved? The boundary was pretty clear when we left.

 

[Kevin B.]

In addition to the carsonites that are attached to the 4x4 posts, the last project we did we also drug a dozen or more logs down there to help delineate that it was the lake high water mark that is off limits.

Sounds like those logs have been moved? The boundary was pretty clear when we left.

I'm thinking at least a couple of those logs grew legs, yeah.

 

[sixstringsteve]

If I try to put myself in the mindset of a new wheeler, I wouldn't think much about those logs. In order to get there, you may have to drive over a few logs even bigger than those. So even though its obvious to us, it may not be so obvious to new wheelers that we aren't supposed to cross those logs. There is no mistaking those Masonite signs though, those are very clear. It's a shame all wheelers don't have buddies to educate them.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I also don't think that uneducated wheelers understand the consequences of breaking the rules. In fact, most uneducated wheelers don't know that our trails are in danger of being shut down.

 

[ret32]

The logs weren't put there to be a barrier, just a reminder and hopefully cause an extra moment of pause for people to notice the signs. It is the position of the Utah 4x4 Club and the Pleasant Grove Ranger District that the fences and signs be as minimal as possible while trying to keep the vast majority of people on the legal trail.

I honestly think a lot people are simply blissfully ignorant of the issues. The day we put up the signs, two different groups drove right past us digging the signpost holes and drove out into the forbidden area. Both were pleasant and very apologetic once we talked to them. One group even helped out with a few volunteer hours right there on the spot.

 

[Thardy]

I also don't think that uneducated wheelers understand the consequences of breaking the rules. In fact, most uneducated wheelers don't know that our trails are in danger of being shut down.

I 100% agree with this, however I don't think its a good enough excuse. Also in my opinion I don't think some one driving a company trail rig like the one that was on the lake should be considered uneducated. If infact he is then said company better get their ass' in gear and train their drivers. By the way I did see the Jeep in question in the Spanish Fork parade with the rest of the Teraflex posse.

 

[ret32]

As an FYI, if you see somebody off trail up there and if you don't feel comfortable approaching them, you can take a picture that includes their license plate and turn in a report to the Pleasant Grove Ranger District. They have been know to issue citations by mail if given enough information (date, time of day, license number, picture, short description).

In this particular case, as the rep for the club adopting that trail, I will give Teraflex a call and inform them of the incident as it has been described here. It's certainly a good reminder for all of us that eyes are watching what we do and to be on our best behavior, especially if we have identifying information on our vehicles. It won't be the first time a well known company has been accused of being off trail up Forest Lake. Last year, we found a well known 4x4 outfit here in the state that had a promotional picture on their website of a Jeep in the lake (not just the mud hole left over when the lake level is dropping): they removed it immediately.

 

[zukijames]

citation front the forest service kinda sucks in a way.. it could be helpful or it could make people care even less..

i think a warning in the mail with explanation of how important it is to stay on the trail

 

[ret32]

citation front the forest service kinda sucks in a way.. it could be helpful or it could make people care even less..

i think a warning in the mail with explanation of how important it is to stay on the trail

Yea I'm not sure their exact procedure. I know they have been known to issue citations in the past. I'm not sure if they do a warning first or what.

 

[DsmXJRider]

I was out there 2 days ago, I noticed 2-3 fences fell down.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I know not everyone who uses that trail belongs to a club or goes with an educated wheeler. However, let's not forget that there are big signs at both the head of this trail and at the lake. These signs clearly state the expectations of those using the trail. There's not a ton more the forest service can do to educate people.


I definitely agree with putting some educational material in the mail in addition to the citation.

I'm afraid a simple warning in the mail would only make the problem worse. Imagine this scenario: There's a group of 3 guys contemplating driving through the lake. One of them has done it in the past and said "I did it once, and they just sent a warning in the mail." The group is now weighing the consequences of driving through the lake. So they think to themselves. Hm... I could have all this fun and drive through the lake and the worst thing that could happen is I get a warning in the mail. Sounds pretty good to me."

If people aren't going to read their maps, posted signage, and the kiosks at the head of the trail they drive on IN A NATIONAL FOREST, then I think a ticket in the mail is definitely warranted. It sounds harsh, but the people who refuse to obey signage ruin it for the rest of us who do. I want to be able to run forest lake one day with my kids, but I worry that my favorite trails will be hiking only by the time I have kids.

I still think the best approach is what ret32 suggests: approach the driver and explain/educate on the spot. I've done that a lot, and for the most part, people are willing to do what's needed to keep these trails open.

 

[zukijames]

im a pile and didnt read the signs the first several trips up there .. when i go wheeling i am wheeling i thought the signs were more historical type stuff or something . but i never drove in the lake or around it.. alot of people dont realize that jsut because the water is down and maybe it is even dry where they are driving.. they leak oil , have stuff on tires blah blah still ends up in the water.

and maybe that doesn't hurt anything but i love the speckled salamanders in there and dont wanta do anything to hurt them( wow i sound like a granola!)

 

[Kevin B.]

Unless you like wheeling in parking lots, you are a granola. Wheeling is a means to end for me, and I suspect for most everybody. If I had to choose between wheeling and getting out of the valley, I'll choose getting out every time. Wheeling is a fun way to cure my low altitude sickness, but it isn't the only way.

I think most OHV users are closet environmentalists. They just don't want to admit it because of the baggage organizations like SUWA have associated with the label.

 

[Thardy]

I know not everyone who uses that trail belongs to a club or goes with an educated wheeler. However, let's not forget that there are big signs at both the head of this trail and at the lake. These signs clearly state the expectations of those using the trail. There's not a ton more the forest service can do to educate people.


I definitely agree with putting some educational material in the mail in addition to the citation.

I'm afraid a simple warning in the mail would only make the problem worse. Imagine this scenario: There's a group of 3 guys contemplating driving through the lake. One of them has done it in the past and said "I did it once, and they just sent a warning in the mail." The group is now weighing the consequences of driving through the lake. So they think to themselves. Hm... I could have all this fun and drive through the lake and the worst thing that could happen is I get a warning in the mail. Sounds pretty good to me."

If people aren't going to read their maps, posted signage, and the kiosks at the head of the trail they drive on IN A NATIONAL FOREST, then I think a ticket in the mail is definitely warranted. It sounds harsh, but the people who refuse to obey signage ruin it for the rest of us who do. I want to be able to run forest lake one day with my kids, but I worry that my favorite trails will be hiking only by the time I have kids.

I still think the best approach is what ret32 suggests: approach the driver and explain/educate on the spot. I've done that a lot, and for the most part, people are willing to do what's needed to keep these trails open.

Very well put.