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Front spring shims?

lewis

lewis

Fight Till You Die
Location
Hairyman
What is the maximum degree shim that should be used on front leaf springs? I originally set them up so I didn't need them but since my springs have settled I need them.
 
E

Erik d_lux

Registered User
Location
Murray, UT
Not sure on maximum that you can use, but if you do run them make sure they are steel and not AL. AL will deform and cause your u bolts to loosen over time.
 
bryson

bryson

RME Resident Ninja
Supporting Member
Location
West Jordan
Right... run the steel ones, and make sure to get the ones that bolt in with your center pin...NOT the ones that just go over the head of the pin. If you do all that, I don't think 6* shims would be too much.. Do you need more than that?
 
I Lean

I Lean

Mbryson's hairdresser
Vendor
Location
Utah
I keep 4, 6, and 8 degree in stock. They're steel, bolt in with the center pin just like another leaf.

I wouldn't go all the way to 0 degrees if you drive on the road, but whatever floats your boat. :)
 
ricsrx

ricsrx

Well-Known Member
I am running about 9* on my toyota, I was aiming for 10* when i made them. TG 3" front leafs that have settled, I welded them to the spring purch. My pinion was almost pointing down befor i added them.
 
jsudar

jsudar

Well-Known Member
Location
Cedar Hills
I think I'd spend more money on a dual CV drive shaft or something, rather than screw your caster up. After all the trouble you went through to keep it street legal, you'll loose your road manners. Cut the inner C's off and clock them.
 
bryson

bryson

RME Resident Ninja
Supporting Member
Location
West Jordan
jsudar said:
I think I'd spend more money on a dual CV drive shaft or something, rather than screw your caster up. After all the trouble you went through to keep it street legal, you'll loose your road manners. Cut the inner C's off and clock them.
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I think he'll be just find as long as he can keep some caster... Plus, those dual CV shafts are rock magnets, and more like a band-aid than a real fix.

Besides, on the road your front d-shaft doesn't even turn, so vibes on-road aren't an issue... right? How bad is it off road? Or are you just trying to keep the d-shaft off the rocks a bit more?
 
lewis

lewis

Fight Till You Die
Location
Hairyman
The driveshaft vibration is really bad. I have to get out and lock my hubs before every obstacel and unlock them after cause I can't drive more than 10mph before the truck sounds like its going ot fall apart. You can here it clanking on this video and I am not giving it very much.
[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xIY1w4RdcCQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xIY1w4RdcCQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]
 
B

bobdog

4x4 Addict!
Location
Sandy
I would set up the spring pads right and do anything I could to avoid the angle shims. I ran them for a year on my rear a long time ago. Steel and part of the pack( bolt through the shim). They were beat to @%^$ and the pack bolts were hammered. Set it up right and forget about it.
 
bryson

bryson

RME Resident Ninja
Supporting Member
Location
West Jordan
Do you have a CV on the front shaft, or single joints on both ends...?

Depending on how it's set up, one or the other could fix or greatly improve your situation. Maybe shims are not the fix.

You probably know this, but if the angles between the t-case front output and your front pinion are parallel, then a non CV shaft will do the trick. A CV used in this situation would rattle your teeth out.

If your pinion angle is the same as or close to the driveshaft angle, then the CV is the way to go.

So... what setup do you have? Got any pics of the angles?
 
lewis

lewis

Fight Till You Die
Location
Hairyman
I have a cv. I need the pinion angle to be better so I can get rid of the tom woods offset joint. Right now I run the joint because the joint at my pinion would bind since the angle is so steep. I can't really change the spring pads on the cast side. I could turn the C's but don't want to. I am not even sure if putting shims in there will allow the driveshaft to not bind with a regular ujoint, but I am going to give it a try.
 
billylight

billylight

Registered User
Location
Orem, UT
it doesnt cost much to have advanced turn your Cs. i would get that pinion pointed straight a the t case and rotate those Cs. your caster angle is one of the most important factors in good road manors. believe me your mud tires will find every grove in the road to follow except for straight at 0 degrees caster. a grinder will take care of a cast spring pad. grind it to the new angle or grind it round and weld on a new spring pad at the correct angle. shims are a bad choice and that is taking a short cut after all the time you took to do things right.
 
bryson

bryson

RME Resident Ninja
Supporting Member
Location
West Jordan
billylight said:
it doesnt cost much to have advanced turn your Cs. i would get that pinion pointed straight a the t case and rotate those Cs. your caster angle is one of the most important factors in good road manors. believe me your mud tires will find every grove in the road to follow except for straight at 0 degrees caster. a grinder will take care of a cast spring pad. grind it to the new angle or grind it round and weld on a new spring pad at the correct angle. shims are a bad choice and that is taking a short cut after all the time you took to do things right.
Click to expand...

0* and it may not follow grooves, but you'll hate the way it drives, and it won't return to center... Stay with 4-8* and you'll be happy.

I personally don't think a steel, bolt-in shim is a cop-out... It would work just fine, and is a lot cheaper and easier than the alternatives. That is assuming you can make your pinion angle work, and still keep some caster.
 
lewis

lewis

Fight Till You Die
Location
Hairyman
So I put in a 4 degree shim and a regular ujoint. It put the caster at 3.5 degrees. Good thing is I drove it up to 50 mph in 4 wheel drive with no vibrations and flexed it out with no bind in full compression and full extension. It drove on the road ok, it didn't follow ruts. The only bad with the new setup is that it had a hard time returning to center before ( I think cause the king pins are so tight)and now is even harder to return to center. I also called advanced 4 wheel and randy wasn't in so I couldn't get a quote on turning the c's.
 
lewis

lewis

Fight Till You Die
Location
Hairyman
bryson said:
Sounds better! Can you loosen the preload on the kingpins at all?
Click to expand...

I am a newly converted member to the dana 60 club and don't know if i can. I always thought they were just set by the spring. I will look into it though cause they are really tight.
 
billylight

billylight

Registered User
Location
Orem, UT
if you strip it down and grind the welds off the Cs first i bet you will be in the 80ish range. the hardest part is figuring out how much turn you want. if you go to the trouble to tare it down and pay to turn it you want to get it right. its so worth though 80 bucks to have an axle that is completely built for your truck
 
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