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S-10Dave

Member
So I've been driving some dirt roads, first the back trail from Hyrum to Liberty in a Pontiac G3, then the back way from Bountiful to Farmington in my Cherokee, then the back trail from Hyrum to Bear Lake, also in my Cherokee, and Providence canyon in my Cherokee, and last weekend from Tooele to Wendover for a stop at the Dugway geode field, in my AWD Astro.
This has been very educational, not very fun, and except for the upper part of Providence, i could have gotten either of my Camaros through every bit of it.
Up Providence i finally found use for 4wd, and a use for low range other than descents, since the AW4 in the Cherokee has no way to manually hold first gear in either high range or low.
Being pure stock on worn out 235/75R15 highway tires on cast aluminum 15x7s, with no locking diffs, and missing the center skidplate, I chickened out before getting far enough up to escape the canyon entirely, and backing down between those trees wasn't fun.
I cant keep the Cherokee, or i would be fitting 31s on steelies, and an Aussie up front, swapping my welded Explorer rear, and returning to Providence to complete the climb out.
My Cherokee's death wobble has convinced me that if i ever swap a D30 under the front of my S10, it will be leaf sprung.
Since I have the Camaros, my S10 doesn't need to stay lowered, i have already bought 3 steel 15x7s for it, it needs 3 more, and test fitting with a couple other 235/75R15s shows that i can't go any bigger under the front until I do a D30 swap. So until then, it stays a 2wd pre- runner.
On the other hand, i am seriously considering a set of 235/70R15s on my 86 Camaro, for dirt roads, and the same on the Astro.
 

sawtooth4x4

Totally Awesome
I used my old mercedes to drive lots of dirt roads in Montana.

Hell in high school, i used my 1994 Pontiac Sunbird as a rally car. It could really catch some air. HA HA. I don't do that anymore. But it was fun with 4 guys in the car.
 

S-10Dave

Member
No, but my S-10 is up there until Saturday. Said my last goodbye to my Cherokee yesterday.
I think I will be trying a set of General Grabber AT2 255/70R15s on my S-10, and with them a used set of 4.10:1 gears for the Explorer axle.
The 305 idles well in neutral, poorly in gear, and since I already fitted a B&M Supercooler, I'm thinking an FTI 2400 until i swap my SM465, just need an aluminum 86-up c20 bellhousing. With the SM465 will be 2.73 gears, and i have confirmed the existence of 2.72 gears for a Dana 30. Then i just need a divorced NP205.
 

S-10Dave

Member
True.
I need mpg more than i need to crawl slower than 2 mph.
I just drove this barely-idles cammed 305 from Logan to SLC today, running 2000 rpm at 65 mph. Probably swap to a milder cam soon.
The proposed 255/70R15 tires have an effective diameter of 28.2".
2.73 x 336 x 65, ÷ 28.2" = 2117 rpm. On the other hand, 6.55 x 1.95 x 2.73 x 336 x 2, ÷ 28.2" = 831 rpm.
If i hadn't done the Explorer 8.8" then i could do GM 8.5s front and rear for 2.56 or 2.41 gears. Oh well.
May as well try the 2.73 gear and SM465 i already have before deciding what to do next, right?
 

S-10Dave

Member
Nearly did that, wanted to, but couldn't pay the title loan on it. Also, hated the frequent death wobble, hated not being able to manually hold first gear, and the overheating was too frequent as well. I did buy new motor mounts but didn't get them installed, and the rear axle was grinding fiercely, plus the driver side window crank stripped, leading to a broken window.
Better to just let it go and build something I like.
 

Cascadia

Undecided
Location
Orem, Utah
I have bought several for under 2000. Just keep your eye out everyday. A cheap one pops up probably twice a week but they're snatched up fast.
 

S-10Dave

Member
Doesn't seem so easy, ksl is full, all day every day, of dozens of Cherokees for well under $1000, that's how I got mine for $350. At the time, it needed only a starter solenoid.
But for the same or less money than buying and building a soft top Wrangler, I can build a hard top S-10. The Chevy stuff is more readily available, and at lower prices.
 

S-10Dave

Member
Ok, been rEsearching buying a YJ, the cheapest one i found is $2500, most of them are over $4k. Sk the question is, can i convert my S-10 for under $2500?
I can. I have the tools, talent, and time, the local automotive salvage yards have the parts and prices.
Including core charges but not tax, here are the prices for PNP SLC;
Transmission, $120. Transfer case $145. Driveshaft, 2-piece $66. Front axle assembly complete $ 217. Leaf spring pack, each $38, need 2. That's $624.
Plus i can piece together better parts than a stock YJ came with.
I guess I'll spend an extra $64, buy a used Gov-Lock for my 10.5" FF 14-bolt, weld it up, and put that under the rear of my S-10, it can't be broken, and so far i haven't needed the ground clearance.
This lets me match it up to a stronger front axle than a D30, one with manual hubs.
Once i get a front axle, then i can think about which transfer case, then which transmission.
Seems the GM corporate 8.5" 10-bolt from an 80s K20 is the most common, but a high pinion D60 from an 80s F350 is the strongest.
I want a ZF S5-47, but adapting it to my SBC hasn't been done before. No problem, i pioneered the Nissan FS5W71C to SBC swap, this should be easier.
So if i can find the Ford trans and the Ford axle, then that would decide my transfer case. I have not yet researched that.
 

S-10Dave

Member
Also, found a new set of Chinese 265/75R16s for $350 including tax.
All 3 axles under consideration can be had with gears down to 5.38
 

S-10Dave

Member
Definitely!
So the ZF S5-42 came with a BW1356 transfer case, 2.69: low, chain drive, big Bronco versions have a fixed rear yoke, aluminum case, fairly strong, much lighter than an NP205, readily available, but not as good as the NP271 alternative, which is relatively rare.
Gotta build a baseline, but cheaper to build it well the first time than to build it twice.
I already sold the open diff out of my4.10-geared 10.5", so I'm looking at a new spool for $339 delivered. I've owned and daily driven a welded diff before.
 

S-10Dave

Member
So i started trying to figure the crawl ratios, did a lot of rEsearch, and for tires near 30", and a manual transmission, a crawl ratio of 60:1 should be about 18" per second. This puts 90:1 near 12" per second, and 120:1 around 9" per second.
So the crawl ratios in those other threads need to be converter to inches per second based on their effective tire diameters, or loaded radius x 2.
Then you have a basis for comparison.
But my cammed 305 is going to want more gear than a stock Vortec 350.
Rather than a doubler, I think I see a way to sandwich an SM465 between the ZF S5-42 and an NP241C
Now to try some spreadsheets....
 

Gravy

Ant Anstead of Dirtbikes
Supporting Member
No need for bigger axles than a d30 with a 30" tire.

80's Ford front d60's are going to cost you $1000-$1200. Good luck finding one in a junkyard, I used to be a junkyard rat and only saw 2 or 3 in 10 years.
Figure another $200 to put new wheel bearings, ball joints, brakes and gear oil in it.
 
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