Gov Huntsman: ORV off-trail damage an 'abomination'

[scoutabout]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10614514

Is that a call out? Is Huntsman in bed with SUWA? I agree that off-trail resource damage is an abomination. Is the message right, but the way it was relayed a little skewed?

A big concern are the statements quoted from USA-ALL. So it's ok to break the law and drive off-trail if you don't agree with the restrictions? What is or isn't legal/responsible is based on our "point of view" and not the law?

Am I reading that correctly?

 

[Exalted 4x4]

It was a wishy washy article. Huntsman rides dirt bikes but it was downplayed by abomination. The article helped suwa a lot more than it did us.

 

[Cherokeester]

How do you get a private ride with the governer? I mean is it as easy as calling up his office and say "let's do lunch"? I have a lot of stuff I would like to show him.

 

[Zombie]

I think Mike from USAL chose his words very poorly, and it will end doing damage for a while to come.

I'm really sick of people saying that the RMP were land give aways to motorheads... we aren't happy with most fo them either, and if "not taking away more" means "giving away", then I've been doing somethign wrong my entire life...

 

[Exalted 4x4]

Agreed on the poor words from Mike

 

[Skylinerider]

Perhaps the Guv. should come on a ride with us. I agree that off trail use is gonna make more and more folks come down on the side of SUWA. Maybe the Guv should step up to the plate with more money for enforcement of existing laws, PSA's aren't gonna cut it.

 

[scoutabout]

The gov is more motorcross which has little to do with public lands.

Enforcement would be nice, but USA-ALL seems to be against that idea.

 

[SAMI]

What if U4 were to threaten USA ALL with revoking any current/future funds if they stand in the way of allowing law enforcement to enforce.

Seriously.. WTF is up with Mike?

 

[scoutabout]

What if U4 were to threaten USA ALL with revoking any current/future funds if they stand in the way of allowing law enforcement to enforce.

I don't think I'd say they are standing in the way, but their actions and statements seem negative against the idea of increased enforcement.

Enforcement is key.

We've already been told that U4WDA's support (or lack of support) is not a concern for USA-ALL, so we have little to no influence or input in what they are doing.

 

[SAMI]

I don't think I'd say they are standing in the way, but their actions and statements seem negative against the idea of increased enforcement.

Enforcement is key.

We've already been told that U4WDA's support (or lack of support) is not a concern for USA-ALL, so we have little to no influence or input in what they are doing.

Hmm.. Do I talk to Mike about refunds?

 

[Rick B]

Well, I would have to say that even though no one ever admits they go off the trail it's quite obvious someone does. Anyone who travels on a trail or road around here sees it in spades. There is a very valid point, the roads and trails are completely trashed by those who cannot or willnot obey the rules. This could be a small minority as some claim, however based on the amount of damage I see daily I think that it is more likely a majority that flaunts the rules.

The only thing I got from the article was that the USA-ALL president doesn't think that anyone who disagrees needs to obey the rules. Sorry but I'm not buying that cop out at all. Probably why I am not and never will be a member. And people actually wonder who is doing the damage when the head of such an organization says that.

I will continue to turn in anyone I see off the road, there is simply no reason at all for what is happening. I've been doing it for years and will continue until I can no longer do it. Some actual enforcement will go a long way toward straightening some people up, something I've said for years. We'll see if there is any actual enforcement though, there isn't any enforcement anywhere else that I've ever seen.

 

[scoutabout]

Well, I would have to say that even though no one ever admits they go off the trail it's quite obvious someone does. Anyone who travels on a trail or road around here sees it in spades. There is a very valid point, the roads and trails are completely trashed by those who cannot or willnot obey the rules. This could be a small minority as some claim, however based on the amount of damage I see daily I think that it is more likely a majority that flaunts the rules.

We often hear that "99%" of OHV users are responsible, never travel off-trail, and don't leave trash. But as you note, if it's only 1% then there must be a lot more OHV rec going on than we're aware of. The damage is obvious almost everywhere. It doesn't help that damage can occur quickly when a few ATVs or 4x4s rip through an area. It's much more evident in forested areas than the BLM areas of southern Utah. Either way it's a huge problem that isn't being addressed with enough resources, on all sides.

I will continue to turn in anyone I see off the road, there is simply no reason at all for what is happening. I've been doing it for years and will continue until I can no longer do it. Some actual enforcement will go a long way toward straightening some people up, something I've said for years. We'll see if there is any actual enforcement though, there isn't any enforcement anywhere else that I've ever seen.

Pretty much every area sees some amount of enforcement, but it's not nearly enough. Take AF Canyon as an example. It's a hugely popular area close to the big population centers of Utah (Utah and Salt Lake Counties). Saturday was National Public Lands Day (free entry). As usual, there was a crew of FPO's on patrol. FPO stands for Forest Protection Officer. FPO's are tasked with resource protection and enforcing the federal laws pertaining to use of Forest Service lands. They are distinctly different from Law Enforcement Officers (LEO's). Straight LEO's (County Sheriffs, etc) won't write a ticket for driving off-trail or ripping through a riparian area. FPO's will.

So 3 FPO's were on patrol from 7AM to 3PM. After 3PM, the entire area was void of any sort of enforcement. Is this acceptable? Absolutely not. Land managing agencies need more resources devoted to these specific areas. When there is more enforcement, there's more incentive to behave responsibly. Not to mention that irresponsible use causes closure. It's such a tough uphill fight.

 

[utahmike]

I would ask that ANY person on this forum call and speak with me personally. Here is my cell number 801-830-9112. Did any of you ever consider that the tribune plays a spin game and uses a few sentences from a 5-7 minute interview to say something you didn’t say? I find it a little ironic that the person who posted this thread didn’t include any of my emails from earlier in the day including the one that challenges the misquote. I am SO sick of a few complainers that don't have the courage to call me and talk to me about stuff like this. You allege we are your enemies or are opposed to your views, when in fact we almost surely agree on most of these issues, yet we allow a few minor miscommunications corrupt what should be a good relationship. What is up with you guys? I AM WILLING TO DISCUSS PERSONALLY ANY AND ALL ISSUES WITH ANY OF YOU INDIVIDUALLY OR AS A GROUP. I am positive we are on the same side but some of you jump to hasty conclusions without giving your would be friends the benefit of the doubt.
If this board is representative of the 4X4 community we and you are in trouble. I do not know if it is even possible to do everything right for our detractors on this board, and frankly I am nearly out of patience. Instead of hiding and complaining from behind our keyboards lets sit down and figure out how we can work together. If you’re interested in that call me or attend our next board meeting and volunteer to take on some responsibilities. Our next board meeting is October 28th at 6:00 pm in Utah County. If you would like to attend call me for more details. Our main focus of the meeting is identifying what we can do to improve the organization, serve our members, and execute accordingly. We are moving to a more volunteer organization and asking board members and other volunteers to take on more responsibility. Hopefully I will hear back from MANY of you and that some of you will attend our meeting. This infighting must stop and those that perpetuate it need to stop.
I hope to see my other emails posted on this thread and not selectively left out of the conversation.

 

[scoutabout]

I would ask that ANY person on this forum call and speak with me personally. Here is my cell number 801-830-9112. Did any of you ever consider that the tribune plays a spin game and uses a few sentences from a 5-7 minute interview to say something you didn’t say? I find it a little ironic that the person who posted this thread didn’t include any of my emails from earlier in the day including the one that challenges the misquote.

Challenge the misquote in public, with the Trib, not on private email lists. You should be upset that your statements were so twisted and used to enforce the idea that off-trail riding/driving is justified. Howl for a retraction. Scream until you get one. Don't just say they were wrong, point out how your (USA-ALL's) position differs from how your comments were used. Post a copy of your response here so we can see what USA-ALL's position is.

I am SO sick of a few complainers that don't have the courage to call me and talk to me about stuff like this.

It's being talked about right here.

You allege we are your enemies or are opposed to your views, when in fact we almost surely agree on most of these issues

Who alleged we (assuming USA-ALL and the 4x4 community is "we") are enemies?

I AM WILLING TO DISCUSS PERSONALLY ANY AND ALL ISSUES WITH ANY OF YOU INDIVIDUALLY OR AS A GROUP.

Great. Let's discuss some stuff, in public. Right here on this forum would be fine with me. Any public forum is fine with me if you're more comfortable throwing bombs over at MotoUtah.com. I don't see any posts from you on that forum about some of the negative comments aimed at 4x4 users.

I am positive we are on the same side but some of you jump to hasty conclusions without giving your would be friends the benefit of the doubt.

Defining "we" as myself and USA-ALL, we are not on the same side of the issue referred to here. I certainly like to think that in general we have the same objective of protecting motorized recreation access to public lands.

I believe that there is such a thing as irresponsible OHV use. I believe that there is such a thing as resource damage caused by irresponsible OHV use. I believe that the number one threat to our access is resource damage caused by irresponsible OHV users within our own community.

USA-ALL has represented the opposite to be true. I base that statement on my own involvement as a USA-ALL board member for two years and an observer of USA-ALL's public image since I've been aware of the organization. I certainly don't speak for the 4x4 community in its entirety. Post up your response to the Trib after they have twisted your words in this instance. Let us know how USA-ALL feels about this issue.

I do not know if it is even possible to do everything right for our detractors on this board, and frankly I am nearly out of patience. Instead of hiding and complaining from behind our keyboards lets sit down and figure out how we can work together. If you’re interested in that call me or attend our next board meeting and volunteer to take on some responsibilities. Our next board meeting is October 28th at 6:00 pm in Utah County. If you would like to attend call me for more details. Our main focus of the meeting is identifying what we can do to improve the organization, serve our members, and execute accordingly. We are moving to a more volunteer organization and asking board members and other volunteers to take on more responsibility. Hopefully I will hear back from MANY of you and that some of you will attend our meeting. This infighting must stop and those that perpetuate it need to stop.

Are detractors everyone who doesn't instantly agree with everything you have to say? Public statements like those included in this article can have a negative impact on the image of the OHV community, as much as the act of ripping a quad, bike or 4x4 through a pristine meadow.

Instead of jumping to the conclusion that any monetary or operational problems with USA-ALL must be the result of "detractors", time would be better spent (for everyone) if you analyzed why you have seen a lack of support as noted in your recent emails. Why are donations and donors declining? What is the strategy for changing that trend? If the trend reverses, what is the strategy (long and short term) for capitalizing on renewed support for the benefit of the OHV community? Specifically, other than a desire to return to Capitol Hill as noted in your email, what is USA-ALL's specific strategy and objectives? The general idea of having a Utah based access group is good, but how is that specifically applied? What specifically can donors expect will be done with their contributions?

I hope to see my other emails posted on this thread and not selectively left out of the conversation.

You don't have a spokesperson that I'm aware of, if you want to say something then you can post it here as you have other places. You should also post your email asking for renewed donations for USA-ALL. You've posted it many other places, you should post it here as well.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Wow...



Here is a quick way for me to incite a riot

I think full-size OHV users need to take a look at how to dis-franchise themselves from the general OHV users (specifically ATV users!) on some level. I'm not saying we can't work together in some fashion, but all this "working together" for the past 10 years has broughten little return IMO. Some of the greatest accomplishments I've personally been privy too have come at the sweat on the ground by user groups. CC4x4C & Hog Canyon, MFFW & Pritchett, Moab Rim, etc, RR4W & Strike Ravine, RME and the Snakes, etc. These gains did not originate from some cooperative effort... it would have great if they had but its simply not the case, never really has from my perspective. Sure there are some misc happenings over the years, but look at this in the big picture.

On the same note I'm sure the ATV crowd (non full-size vehicles) have their same bragging rights if you will, beside the point. They can pick their battles, we can pick ours, there may be overlap, there might not. But I believe joining our forces has in fact weekend our approach and diluted our effectiveness.

I don't make this assertion lightly. I feel I spend my fair share of time in Utah's outdoors predominately on public lands. Beyond that I have my fair share of experience working with land managers all over the state, not as much as some but what I would call my fair share. Top that off with my extended conversations with what I would term anti-OHV crowds, be it in person, forums and even on TribTalk. I would say a majority of those with angst towards the behaviors, NOISE, abundance, etc of motorized users as a whole have that issue with primarily if not exclusively ATV users (again everything but full-size 4x4s). Land managers often feel the EXACT same way, and its my personal belief that 90% of the "damage" I see on public lands is that of and ATV user rather than an OHV user. That said I don't believe the damage remotely as prolific as SUWA et al would have you believe. Spend time on the 4x4 only routes (ATV's prohibited) in Canyonlands and you will quickly be amazed by the lack of off-trail riding, rogue tracks, etc.

Do the cards add up? Sure. Its much cheaper to get into an ATV, they are much "easier" to use, they can be rented all over the state, and their users are often far more disfranchised from organized clubs and associations that promote responsible and ethical outdoor use. Is it shearly a factor of numbers? Possibly, there are likely 5x as many ATV users (grouping the new explosion of side by sides in this) as there are OHV (Jeep, Bronco, etc, etc) users. However, the numbers don't lie, look how may "members" there are in Utahs 4x4 clubs and Association. Conservatively nearly 1500. How many are members of a pro-active ATV club??

Flame away.

 

[utahmike]

We really need a face to face, this web forum stuff doesn’t work. I would think and hope that if a person posts one of our emails or is aware of additional information (i.e. alerts and emails) that this same person would add it to their post to better inform the readers. In Steve’s case this didn’t take place. I will post the additional emails.

I have publicly challenged the misquote. I will follow up with it, sometimes you can't move them to change. Perhaps Steve could but I have dealt with them (the trib) before and had limited success.

Let’s not talk on a web forum lets meet in person.

I read many posts talking of disgust, hatred and unwillingness to join or help. The word “enemies” was mine and that is how I feel many on this forum feel towards us. I POSITIVELY DO NOT feel this way toward 4x4 users. I am a 4x4 user.

I have not thrown any bombs on other forums. I have used the discussion here as an example of what we shouldn’t be doing.

I am pretty certain you and I (as in me and is in USA-ALL) are on the same side, you’re pretty stubborn to say the least, but I believe your heart is mostly in the right place.

Your right about irresponsible OHV use, absolutely right. You are also right about how it jeopardizes access for the majority. But you are wrong on in-part about how to resolve it. We'll have to meet to discuss that point further I hate typing. I am sorry your experience at USA-ALL has caused you to conclude so negatively about the organization, I could say a lot here on that subject but out of respect will leave it at that.

Actually by definition a detractor is anyone who diminishes the importance, value, or effectiveness of something, it isn’t necessarily a negative thing it is just what I think often happens in your posts when USA-ALL is discussed. Usually you bring up the talking point in a quasi rhetorical question and then a few others proceed to do the detracting. There are a few folks on this forum who love to rip and say things about USA-ALL they are entitled to their opinion and sometimes they are absolutely right. Sometimes those opinions are detracting towards the organization and OFTEN are not grounded in truth or fact.

I did not conclude that problems with USA-ALL are caused by detractors there are a number of reasons some more significant than others. The detractors are a concern but are not the primary reasons we have struggles. USA-ALL has been through this cycle many times it seemed to level off for a few years but has returned over the last 6 months or so.

I agree with you that bad statements can have negative impacts on our image, but the bigger problem isn't what others think of OHVers it is the weak support given to groups like USA-ALL from the users within. The level of involvement in local organizations and the issues IS THE biggest problem. Public image is however an important item to be concerned with and work on. And we as an organization AND as a community need to work on that.

The last bunch of questions you ask are good ones, some of which we have answers for many of which are being discussed by the current board and will be addressed in detail in the next 2 board meetings.

There are many things as you have eluded to that USA-ALL needs to do better. And you are right. But you have to remember that we aren’t some big bad corporation. You of all people should understand that one man can't do the job as well as needs to be done, I have all but quit the organization, The burden has been left to members of the board to either get involved or let it die, I can't try to carry it anymore, I have my strengths and weaknesses and if this organization OR ANY one like it is to succeed we need help, not people taking negative pot shots at us on web forums, I am referring mainly to others replies to your post not so much your original post. There is a difference between constructive criticism and the negative attacks I see in this forum.

Folks if you hate us so bad or are so convinced we are in-effective but you still care about what you think USA-ALL “should be” then CALL me and get involved, If you want to come to our meetings and bash on us that won’t do. But if you have concerns and think you can help us do better at fiscal management, addressing issues, serving our members, Web and IT work, and many other things that you all know of, then come to our board meeting, express your concern and what YOU can do to help us fix the problem. Call me, call me, call me 801-830-9112.

The reason you see my posts on ONE other forum is because we have supporters in those forums that email or call me and ask me to post, I don't monitor them very often. And considering the tone on this forum I am not sure how valuable it would be, but we will try again and again.

 

[utahmike]

Morning email to alert list

Dear Friends,

As you may have read the governor of our great state has
stated that OHV use on public lands in our state is
abusive and that "abuse" is an "abomination" and an
embarrassment to our state. If you haven't already please
read this article that came out this morning in the Salt
Lake Tribune: www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10614514

I agree with the governor's implication that in some
places the intensity of use is high, I agree that in other
places folks need to stay on the trail and obey the law,
but I fundamentally disagree with the governors comments
that the "abuse" is an "abomination". However we would
agree that in some places the use of OHVs needs to be
better managed. This management does not equate with
closing areas, heavy fines, or pandering to environmental
extortionists. It does equate with understanding why the
non-compliance is occurring and then addressing the issue
with that understanding. The governor is shooting from the
hip on this point and doesn't have a good handle on why or
how to resolve the so called abuse.

I am disgusted that the governor has repeatedly denied our
organization the opportunity to take him on a field trip
yet he has found time to go out with a well known
environmental activist and financial supporter of the very
radical group known by the acronym SUWA (www.suwa.org).
Does he believe what he was shown was an accurate
representation of OHV use on public land in our state? If
he had done his due diligence he would not have made such
erroneous and ignorant comments to the Tribunes editorial
board.

I am disgusted that instead of looking proactively at what
can be done to encourage better compliance he has decided
heavy enforcement (i.e. spending more or redirecting tax
dollars) and a PSA video will suffice. How about putting
in some outstanding trail systems on state land with the
use and heavy involvement of volunteers (i.e. less tax
dollars) from local clubs and communities?

I have been disgusted by his willingness to sell our state
and his constituents down the river in order to maintain
harmony with various federal agencies, other states
governments, and radical environmental groups. How about
not rolling over for federal land use plans (i.e. RMP's)
that are closing down countless miles of trail? You know
the governor has special status with the feds when those
plans are formulated and finalized. He and he alone gets a
special review of those plans and then he gets to sign off
on how consistent they are with the state's position and
local land use plans. Why has he signed and approved 100%
of them while knowing full well how damaging they are to
his constituents?

Why has he NOT supported many rural counties such as Kane
County who is fighting a heavy battle for ALL of us? Why
has he placed the interest of "getting along" with the
federal land use agencies over serving the people of this
state? Why has he aligned with California's governor
Schwartznegger and signed on to the green house gas
initiative that has harmed our ability to grow our power
plant industry? Why has the governor created a state
recreation task force stacked with known radical
environmentalists? Why has the governor opposed and
reluctantly signed state legislative resolutions urging
the U.S. congress to pass meaningful law to resolve the
road ownership issue in the west? Believe me I could go
on.

There are many unanswered question such as these. I will
leave their conclusion to you. One thing we know the
Governor and others in his administration have not served
the public very well. Perhaps he wakes up in the morning
licks his finger and hold it to the air to see which way
the political winds are blowing, lately they have been
blowing very green, and so he charts his course
accordingly. Perhaps he has failed to account that this
"green wind" is mostly coming from outside our state. We
wish he would pay closer attention to the political
concerns of the folks at home here in Utah. The governor
has broken our hearts. We thought, in him, we had a friend
and an advocate it turns out he has slighted us. Its past
time our communities let him know how we feel.

Below is his contact info let's see if we can make some
political wind of our own.
Governor Jon M. Huntsman, Jr.
Utah State Capitol Complex
350 North State Street, Suite 200
PO Box 142220
Salt Lake City, Utah 84114-2220
801-538-1000
800-705-2464
Fax 801-538-1528
To email him:
governor.utah.gov/goca/form_comment.html

PLEASE be respectful and on point. But DO let him know how
you feel about his recent comments and his lack of support
for our community. DO suggest things he could do to
improve (i.e. give equal time and consideration to
opposing sides, go on a field trip with USA-ALL, support
local county commissioner's fight for roads, etc.)

USA-ALL is a non-profit organization. Recently our
donations have all but dried up, probably ended up in the
gas tanks of most people's automobiles or at their local
grocery stores. We desperately want to continue to fight
for all of you, and we want to improve how we do that. But
it can only happen if we have donated money to pay for
basic services and fund important projects. If you like
what you read here in this email and would like to see our
organization improve please send us a donation. You can
donate to us online with a card or bank account through
www.paypal.com using the email address
[EMAIL="treasurer@usaall.org"]treasurer@usaall.org This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it [/EMAIL]. For additional info you can also
visit our website at www.usaall.org (our joindonate page
is having problems). In addition to your donations if you
have a little time we are holding a board of directors
meeting at 6:00 pm on October 28 in Orem, Utah. We are
looking to add passionate individuals to the board, you
will need to commit to a monthly time commitment of 4-8
hours. We need people from all types of recreational
interests and others that need access to land such as
grazers, industry folks, etc. we also need people from all
areas of the state. If you're interested send an email to
[EMAIL="mike@usaall.org"]mike@usaall.org This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it [/EMAIL]and let me know. I can fill you in on
other details. Despite a few differences those in the
community may have with one another WE CANNOT AFFORD to
allow USA-ALL to go out of business, we have to come
together and fight united. If you have a gripe with us
email me, we can work it out. Please donate today even a
few bucks if that is all you have. Our access to public
land is too precious to let it slip through our fingers.

Sincerely,

-Michael Swenson-
Executive Director
Utah Shared Access Alliance (USA-ALL)

WWW.USAALL.ORG

 

[utahmike]

Email response to article this afternoon

One point I would like to make is this. Neither I nor USA-ALL advocates for breaking the law or riding illegally. We do however understand why it occurs. That is one of the points I was trying to make in the interview. In the article it sounds like we support selective compliance with the law. As some of you may recall I did an interview or really a point counter point interview with Nadine Whimmer on KSL's evening news earlier this year. In that interview I publicly stated that there is no excuse for illegal OHV use and that we are concerned about it. The Tribune pieced 2 separate quotes together and it did not accurately express our views on compliance with state and federal law. The rest of the article was accurate and I stand by my statements.

 

[scoutabout]

We really need a face to face, this web forum stuff doesn’t work.

Written communication is sequential and documented. Don't read non-verbal communication into what's being written. Let's document the discussion here, or somewhere.

I have publicly challenged the misquote. I will follow up with it, sometimes you can't move them to change. Perhaps Steve could but I have dealt with them (the trib) before and had limited success.

Post up the response you sent to the Trib and Gehrke and I'll help provide any critique or recommendations if it will be helpful.

Let’s not talk on a web forum lets meet in person.

Let's document the discussion for the benefit of everyone.

I read many posts talking of disgust, hatred and unwillingness to join or help. The word “enemies” was mine and that is how I feel many on this forum feel towards us. I POSITIVELY DO NOT feel this way toward 4x4 users. I am a 4x4 user.

How was your last trip? Here's a great place to share your 4x4 trips with the community and allow the group to become more familiar with you and USA-ALL:

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/forumdisplay.php?f=11

I have not thrown any bombs on other forums. I have used the discussion here as an example of what we shouldn’t be doing.

This is what I was referring to:

And there is a variety of reasons for the division and a few punks like to keep the pot stirred.

My first few lines of this thread...yeah SUWA watches, probably helps in some ways, and sits back and loves it, many of the guys on the rockymountainextreme.com forum don't get it.

The type of talk on this other 4x4 forum is so counterproductive

Your right about irresponsible OHV use, absolutely right. You are also right about how it jeopardizes access for the majority.

Let's hear that as the official position of USA-ALL. When and where can we hear it?

But you are wrong on in-part about how to resolve it. We'll have to meet to discuss that point further I hate typing.

I propose higher mandatory fines, increased professional enforcement, regularly active peer enforcement, and education programs targeted and current and future users. Let me know where I'm wrong and why so we can move towards a better solution.

I know how USA-ALL feels about fines based on the minutes from the DWR committee making recommendations on this issue.

I am sorry your experience at USA-ALL has caused you to conclude so negatively about the organization,

I'm not entirely negative about the organization itself. The idea behind USA-ALL is a great one. There are certainly other positive aspects. Some great things have been acheived in the past. Our opinions differ greatly regarding the best way to go forward. As I said on MotoUtah.com, which way doesn't matter as long as it works. Have we taken the course that best prepares us to acheive success in the future?

I could say a lot here on that subject but out of respect will leave it at that.

Feel free to bring it forth. It is possible that the ensuing discussion will be enlightening for our audience.

Usually you bring up the talking point in a quasi rhetorical question and then a few others proceed to do the detracting. There are a few folks on this forum who love to rip and say things about USA-ALL they are entitled to their opinion and sometimes they are absolutely right. Sometimes those opinions are detracting towards the organization and OFTEN are not grounded in truth or fact.

I'm concerned with all aspects of protecting motorized recreation on public lands. That extends to warranted criticism of our organizations representing OHV interests. Go to UFWDA's forum and see what I have to say. I'm the harshest critic of U4WDA as well. I wish I didn't know so much about USA-ALL and its leadership. I wish I could go back to blindly sending a check "to protect access". Knowing what I know, I would like to know with specificity what USA-ALL is working on and why. I'd like to know what the long and short term strategies are for USA-ALL over the next few years with specific objectives and initiatives. Some kind of documented plan that can be used to evaluate performance objectively would be a good resource to present to potential donors.

People will slop up steak and lobster. Gruel is impossible to get excited about.

I did not conclude that problems with USA-ALL are caused by detractors there are a number of reasons some more significant than others. The detractors are a concern but are not the primary reasons we have struggles. USA-ALL has been through this cycle many times it seemed to level off for a few years but has returned over the last 6 months or so.

Frequent references to "the detractors" seem to indicate that it's a concern. It should be. Donor driven organizations are beholden to the people who support them. When an org does things the donors support, the org is rewarded with more contributions. The inverse is also true. So over the last 6 months, what has USA-ALL been doing that has resulted in the current lack of support that you have referenced?

I agree with you that bad statements can have negative impacts on our image, but the bigger problem isn't what others think of OHVers it is the weak support given to groups like USA-ALL from the users within.

The two conditions are linked.

The level of involvement in local organizations and the issues IS THE biggest problem.

It's clear that the OHV community doesn't provide blind support in most cases. Give them a reason to rip open their wallets besides the generic "we're fighting for your access" line and its derivatives. Specifics (on both accomplishments and more importantly future plans) will help.

U4WDA has been a victim of the exact same circumstance. We looked at the cause instead of looking at the effect. We made changes based on that analysis, and moved forward. It's a continual process of analysis, evaluation and correction when it's required.

The last bunch of questions you ask are good ones, some of which we have answers for many of which are being discussed by the current board and will be addressed in detail in the next 2 board meetings.

Fantastic. We have a date when we can expect this information, and I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

There are many things as you have eluded to that USA-ALL needs to do better. And you are right. But you have to remember that we aren’t some big bad corporation. You of all people should understand that one man can't do the job as well as needs to be done...

Oh yes. But I wasn't paid to run U4WDA. A full time employee can accomplish a lot when focus can be maintained on the issues of most importance (infrastructure, membership, communication, strategic planning).

I have all but quit the organization, The burden has been left to members of the board to either get involved or let it die, I can't try to carry it anymore, I have my strengths and weaknesses and if this organization OR ANY one like it is to succeed we need help,

So the course of action USA-ALL chose one year ago was a mistake? We were prepared to hire, train and fund a new executive director to take USA-ALL forward when the position was vacant. Instead, a purported "safe" and "status quo" course was selected. "What if" crosses my mind a lot when I think about USA-ALL. What if we would've stayed the course set in motion last summer? What if we would've hired one of the handful of qualified applicants we interviewed? Where would we be now? Worse? Better? Getting better? Getting worse?

not people taking negative pot shots at us on web forums

Take the opportunity to kick arse and tell 'em they're wrong. Back it up with fact. Win them over. Their image of USA-ALL is based on the product you have presented for consumption. P & G doesn't write off people as detractors if they don't buy Tide. They bust their arse to convince people that their product is worth buying. It's no different in the non-profit world. People support organizations that they feel are worth supporting. Winning over the support and trust of donors is especially hard in the high-ego, self-reliant and individualist community of OHV users. It's why there's no single organization out there dominating the OHV community with donations and members.

I never would've imagined that there would be so many obstacles to me offering my professional expertise to assist a cause that I love. I thought it was fate that my career as a non-profit marketing/fundraising consultant gave me a unique opportunity to help this cause. It's still true, I'm just working on it from different angles. It's true, I'm an arsehole and I don't like wasting time being political. It's a fault, but it's also an asset.

I have digressed.

Folks if you hate us so bad or are so convinced we are in-effective but you still care about what you think USA-ALL “should be” then CALL me and get involved,

There you go folks. Get involved and help USA-ALL fulfill its potential.

PS - We need to bump up the 10,000 character limit for posts in the "land use" forum.

 

[muleskinner]

Todays Trib Cartoon