Home automation

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
Who's started playing with home automations? How far have you taken it? What's your setup like, did you piece it together and what controller are you using? Openhab? SmartThings? Vera? Control4? Something you built up on your own?

I've recently started playing around with it and was wondering if anyone else is too?
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
I've looked into Openhab using a raspberry pi and even ordered some parts to setup a temp and humidity sensor but got hung up on some of the coding and lost interest. At some point I'd like to go that route again to set up a few moisture sensors in my basement and under the kitchen sink, I'd like keyless locks on the front and side doors, sensors on the garage door to easily determine whether its open or closed and be able to control it, as well as a connected irrigation system with several moisture sensors. It love it if my water softener would send me an alert when it was low on salt and wouldn't reset until the level was adjusted.

When I was looking at this 6 months ago it seemed like a lot of the write ups were focused on lighting and different "mood" settings which I have absolutely no interest in. I really want to have a decent amount of automation but I want it to be practical to how we live so that we don't have to make adjustments to be able to fit a new gadget into our lives. I was really tempted when that echo popped up here a few weeks ago because I know it can be pretty well integrated with many things but I'm just not there yet.

I did buy an Ecobee smart thermostat on black Friday which we have liked. I've dialed in our week pretty good for the home/away/asleep settings which I think has made us more comfortable while at home and cost us the least amount of money for heating. The gas bill has been higher than before we had this thermostat but I had basically locked things down to a solid 65*, now it adjust up to 68* during the day when we are home. While it is nice to be able to program many things into it I'd still like to have more control on how things are triggered in the software (based on several variables rather than just the one it uses now) but if it had those features it would be significantly more costly and I'm not even sure there is an off the shelf device that works that way. For example I wish I could use the wifi connections in my wifes and my phone as a who's home feature. If the wife isn't home I don't want the "I'm home" feature to kick on and over ride the away function when I'm the one thats walking around the house hitting the sensors. I know how I want it to work in my head but the device isn't smart enough to accomplish it.

What have you been playing with?
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
I've had a limited amount of automation for several years through xfinity home but hated the limited number of types of devices and the devices available so I ditched them. One of my requirements was home alarm that can be professionally monitored. Very few systems can do this while still giving you full control and a good selection of device types and models. I decided to go with Smart Things.

I've had a Nest for many years. When I first put it in, it saved us a ton, in fact I paid for it in three months (comparing year over year) in the savings, yet we weren't any less comfortable. I've got about 30 different devices in my current system. I've got my Nest tied in, door sensors on all the external doors, window sensors on all windows, lock on the front door, garage sensor, several motion sensors, phones tied in, bunch of lights and fans, etc.

I felt the same way, I didn't want to force a new device in to my life and there's no way the wife would be down with this if it was a pain for her. So I started with a few things I felt would make my life easier. I added door and window sensors so I could be notified if something was opened or left open when it shouldn't be. Next thing was the garage, I've turned around who knows how many times to double check it was closed. So I threw a tilt sensor on and now that problem was solved. Next was my son always would leave his light in his room on. So, I put a motion sensor and light switch in his room. Now between certain hours, if it doesn't detect motion for more than five minutes, it automatically turns off, similar thing with his fan in his bathroom. I've also automated my exterior lights to come on at sunset and turn off at a certain time, unless I go to bed earlier and my "Goodnight" routine runs then they turn off when all the other lights are checked to make sure they're off. The garage door also closes if it open when that routine runs. I've got both mine and my wife's phones tied in, two things I use it for is if it detects both of us are gone, certain lights ensure they are off, garage door makes sure it's closed, the thermostat sets to away, and the alarm arms. If either of us come home, most of that is undone. I e also tied in my security cameras so they'll take bursts of still images in certain circumstances in addition to video.

The two things I'm looking to add next are some moisture sensors and irrigation controller. I have a leak somewhere in the foundation of my house but can't figure out where, so I want to place some sensors around suspect areas and trigger cameras to record and send a notification to me if moisture is detected. Current problem is there's no rhyme or reason of when it leaks, so even checking it every night, I've yet tthe be able to catch it at a point that I can tell where it's coming from. I've been debating on the irrigation controller to use. Right now I think Rain Machine is in the lead, but I also like Rachio and Spruce. I think Spruce would be the clear winner if it was able to be manually controlled if needed but it currently can only be controlled through smartthings.

So far Smartthings has been fine. They've had some growing pains where they've grown too fast, but I think as of right now, they got a handle on it. For the first two weeks my system wasn't completely reliable, routines wouldn't run reliably, etc. Since then, I've not had any problems. I ultimately decided to go with ST because I can have my alarm system professionally monitored by Scout Alarm or ADT using my sensors I currently have with no contract. So if I want to do it for a month that I'm on vacation, I can. I've still been very interested in openhab, in fact I have a little computer and z-wave board coming so I can play with it. Right now I can move all of my devices to a new system so I'm not locked in. I want to avoid that lock-in as I know this industry is really starting to grow.

I too was super tempted by that echo, more just for the something new that can tie-in factor :D. I just don't see me talking to my system anytime soon very often when I actually have it quite automated and hands-off. Glad to see there's another nerd on here playing with this stuff :D
 
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Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
Another thing I have going that I like is the front door lock. I have it setup so that it also makes sure it's locked when we leave or when the goodnight routine runs. I also have it set so that if the door is closed and it's been unlocked for 5 minutes, it'll auto-lock. I can't tell you how many times we had left our door unlocked because my son had unlocked it or we had just forgotten we'd unlocked it. No more of that :D
 

Jesser04

Well-Known Member
Location
Kaysville Utah
I don't have a system in my house but I have one in a tailgate trailer. We went with control4 It was cheaper than some other options and met all our needs. My buddies who own a AV company all prefer savant or crestron but it didn't make sense in our application. How is the iPhone app for smart things? The start up time on the control4 app is quite annoying for me it doesn't take long I just feel like it should be faster. Other than that I've been very happy with it. I wish I was more tech savvy one thing I've learn is the program is every evolving so every time I want to change it I drag the trailer down there and it take a couple hours to change and check the system again. It would be cool to do all that my self but that's my problem not there's.
 

thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Supporting Member
I have started setting up my house in Kanab that we are using for a vacation rental, I went down a few weeks ago and revamped the wifi first by replacing the old school router with a airport extreme and then adding a SmartThings hub 2 controller. I swapped out the Thermostat and also linked the front door that we already had a Schlage lock installed on. With renting it all the time I like to know that the thermostat inst getting left on while people are not there, and with all the expensive things in the house it is nice to know if the door is locked or not and to be able to lock it when needed. Plus when I go down I can warm it up or cool it down when we are approaching.

I read a ton about this before I started and found a lot of people have issues with controllers and power outages or other glitches. The SmartThings controller does Zwave and WIFI and seemed to have the best reviews. I'm not a big fan of their app, I think they could clean it up and do a little better. I everything goes good with it for a few months I will add a bunch of moisture sensors and door and window sensors along with a few light switches and a water main valve.

It is pretty nice, I get several updates a day on the temperature in the house, and I can adjust it to whatever I want.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
I don't have a system in my house but I have one in a tailgate trailer. We went with control4 It was cheaper than some other options and met all our needs. My buddies who own a AV company all prefer savant or crestron but it didn't make sense in our application. How is the iPhone app for smart things? The start up time on the control4 app is quite annoying for me it doesn't take long I just feel like it should be faster. Other than that I've been very happy with it. I wish I was more tech savvy one thing I've learn is the program is every evolving so every time I want to change it I drag the trailer down there and it take a couple hours to change and check the system again. It would be cool to do all that my self but that's my problem not there's.

Cool, what do you think of the Control4 stuff? I considered it, but never got a quote on it as I'm sure it's a fair bit more expensive than what I've done. I'd love to do my next house with it or maybe Crestron. The ST app is ok. It opens plenty quick for me, but I rarely have to use it, I have everything automated.

I have started setting up my house in Kanab that we are using for a vacation rental, I went down a few weeks ago and revamped the wifi first by replacing the old school router with a airport extreme and then adding a SmartThings hub 2 controller. I swapped out the Thermostat and also linked the front door that we already had a Schlage lock installed on. With renting it all the time I like to know that the thermostat inst getting left on while people are not there, and with all the expensive things in the house it is nice to know if the door is locked or not and to be able to lock it when needed. Plus when I go down I can warm it up or cool it down when we are approaching.

I read a ton about this before I started and found a lot of people have issues with controllers and power outages or other glitches. The SmartThings controller does Zwave and WIFI and seemed to have the best reviews. I'm not a big fan of their app, I think they could clean it up and do a little better. I everything goes good with it for a few months I will add a bunch of moisture sensors and door and window sensors along with a few light switches and a water main valve.

It is pretty nice, I get several updates a day on the temperature in the house, and I can adjust it to whatever I want.

Yeah, I was planning to put a system in our cabin (once we purchase it). The water detection, locks, and temperature are what will be most useful in that case. FWIW, ST also does Zigbee and has a bluetooth chip that's not yet enabled. That was a big seller for ST for me, being able to do the main technologies (Z-Wave and Zigbee). The number of supported devices is by far greater than pretty much any other controller out there.
 

Jesser04

Well-Known Member
Location
Kaysville Utah
Control4 is ok... If I were doing a home I'd go with savant. These systems weren't made to be turn on and of and hauled down the road so my experience may not be the same as it being set up in a home. I needed something that could run an audio video switcher, 4 tv's, 2 satellite boxes Apple TV, car audio deck and a sonos. Ps I'm not some rich bastard. my dad and I are in charge of events for his work and they let me put this together for football games and other events they go to. Needless to say I don't let it leave my sight.
 

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nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
Caleb, its interesting that you say you got your start with an xfinity system. I helped my brother move into a house in Lehi a couple years ago that has a Vivent system with a hub, window and door sensors, and a keypad front door lock. A few months after he moved in we were down and I asked him about his system and decided I really like the idea of a key-less front door. As our son grows (hes only 6 months old right now) I can absolutely see the value of window and light sensors and auto locking doors.

I really ought to buy a hub rather than do openhab because I get hung up with the programming (coding) side and smart things or another similar product would get me going quicker with less headache. I'm pretty happy that the systems and components are generally cross compatible at this point, its just nice to have options and to be able to upgrade to a newer hub in the future without risking that you would need to buy all new components.

What component protocol are you finding best success with? Have you played around with different ones or have you just stuck with one?

It sounds like you have some pretty complex routines setup with your hub. I would imagine that you are able to create those through a web portal rather than doing it all from a phone app? Have you found that there are capabilities that you would like to setup but are unable to due to software limitations? Does the hub "just work" or have you had to really dig or add plug-ins to get certain abilities working?

I've got a whole slew of questions but I won't blast them all up front.
 
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Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
Caleb, its interesting that you say you got your start with an xfinity system. I helped my brother move into a house in Lehi a couple years ago that has a Vivent system with a hub, window and door sensors, and a keypad front door lock. A few months after he moved in we were down and I asked him about his system and decided I really like the idea of a key-less front door. As our son grows (hes only 6 months old right now) I can absolutely see the value of window and light sensors and auto locking doors.

I really ought to buy a hub rather than do openhab because I get hung up with the programming (coding) side and smart things or another similar product would get me going quicker with less headache. I'm pretty happy that the systems and components are generally cross compatible at this point, its just nice to have options and to be able to upgrade to a newer hub in the future without risking that you would need to buy all new components.

What component protocol are you finding best success with? Have you played around with different ones or have you just stuck with one?

It sounds like you have some pretty complex routines setup with your hub. I would imagine that you are able to create those through a web portal rather than doing it all from a phone app? Have you found that there are capabilities that you would like to setup but are unable to due to software limitations? Does the hub "just work" or have you had to really dig or add plug-ins to get certain abilities working?

I've got a whole slew of questions but I won't blast them all up front.

I like the idea of openhab, but not sure I want to put in the work to really make it work like I want it to. ST for the most part is plug and play, and is constantly getting better. I've only had to do two custom integrations, one was with my IP cameras I had left over from my Xfinity system, the other was for my Nest (I'm still blown away that Nest doesn't have an official integration yet). I plan to eventually replace my Nest with an Ecobee, simply because I hate Google (I had the Nest well before Google had bought them). As long as you stick to the major protocols and the major brands, the components really can go with any controller.

I've got a good mix of Zigbee and Z-Wave. I can't say I prefer one over the other. I've not had any problems with any of them other than some not officially supported zigbee outlets that, again, were left over from my Xfinity install. Once I got them setup, they've worked flawlessly though.

I've been able to do 99% of my routines right through ST. The only one that I wasn't able to do is to turn off my son's bathroom fan 5 mins after he turns it on. If you tie it to something else, like 5 mins after motion stops, you can do it right through ST but a simple timer function has to be done through another app. There are a couple really good apps that compliment ST, the one I use is called Rule Machine. I could do 100% of what I'm doing through it instead of through the ST app if I wanted to.

The hub for the most part just works. I haven't had any problems with it, as mentioned above, I've added only a couple different device types for things that weren't supported but there's a really good community and if you have problems, you can almost always get help there.

My biggest complaint about ST is they are missing a web interface. Everything has to be done through their mobile app, which just blows me away. It's quick and easy to do, so not a huge deal, but still I would think that is the most basic thing to offer. Their only web interface is the developer console where you can go to add custom device types, etc. You can also add devices and remove devices through there, but you can't create routines through there.

I'm planning to connect my Harmony hub to it but not sure I'll really use it. I guess I could tie that to my Goodnight routine so it makes sure the TV is off when I go to bed or something like that.

What other questions do you have, fire away :)
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
Not having a web UI is a big turnoff for me. If not specifically to setup the routines but to also have a general view of the connected devices, their current status and the ability to disable them from the general view. I believe that openhab works this way but would need to double check. Now I'm wondering if the other hubs have this type of interface. I'm sure its because of the work I do but I can't stand doing anything even semi productive on my phone. I am around computers constantly at home and work so when I'm at the doctors or stuck somewhere without a real computer and "internet" on my phone it kills me a little on the inside to have such a small screen to look at. I'm just so used to doing everything on big monitors and real keyboards that I just don't do it from my phone. I've read that people buy cheap HP tablets to have around the house for this type of thing but I don't know that I'd want to, maybe I could setup an android emulator and do it that way. Alright, I'm done ranting.

All your sensors around the house have to be powered. Are they just AAs or have you run POE (power over ethernet, or network cabling with low voltage power for people new to this stuff) to some of the bigger stuff? I'd guess the window and door sensors are AAs but cameras and the bigger items are POE? The window sensors aren't using wifi to connect to the hub are they? I'd think that wifi would use too much power or require too much hardware in the sensor, do they connect with bluetooth? I read that the door locks are a huge power suck and people complain that they have to constantly change out batteries in them. That is likely the first thing I would integrate so reading that has also been kind of a turnoff. I've read that the "cheaper" connected door lock tumblers are pretty simple to get past so I'm leaning more towards something without a key slot on the outside face. Just a programmable numerical pad with the ability to also use bluetooth to remotely unlock is what I'm thinking.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
There are web interfaces that you can use as a dashboard, the big one most use is http://www.smarttiles.click. You can build custom dashboards that let you lock/unlock, enable/disable, change temps, view camera feeds, see statuses, etc. This would be ideal for a tablet to be used as your main control panel but can certainly be used for anything and designed to anything with a web browser.

I have POE for my cameras, everything else is run off batteries. No AA or AAA, all of them are watch batteries or CR123 batteries. I guess the only AA I have is my door lock. I have this one. I personally would hesitate to not have a key cylinder for the case of dead batteries. However, I've had my door lock installed for about a month and the batteries are still at 100%. I'm not worried about going through them too quickly. Another option is something like the August. It just goes on top of your existing dead bolt. I'm not aware of any that are bluetooth, everything I'm aware of is either zigbee or z-wave. I'm sure they exist though. You also get notified when any of the batteries get low. All of my window sensors are all zigbee. Yeah, wifi would be too much power draw. I would also be concerned about interference if they were wifi.
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
How is your Smart Things hub running Caleb? The internet chatter is that its all broke to hell and that everyone is and should jump ship to ideally something not hosted on the cloud.

We locked ourselves out of the house the other day (went for a walk with no keys, shut garage with car remote then locked door, pin pad for garage batteries were/are dead...) so I've been thinking a lot more about installing a front door keypad lock. I like the idea of having a deadbolt without a key so I've been looking pretty close at this Yale lock.
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
I got a smart deadbolt, 3 smoke and CO detectors with zwave, 2 he smart switches and a single add on switch, and one smart outlet.

One smoke detector and my single smart light switch are installed and connected to the smart things hub so far. I tried to get the three way switches connected but I'm not sure I'm smart enough to figure out the wiring. Winging it didn't seem to work. I'm hoping the deadbolt install is easy and will give it a go as soon as my son falls asleep for his nap. He currently is stumbling around his bedroom looking like he's totally drunk.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
The switches can be a pain to get them to join. The deadbolts aren't too bad if you can get it into the programming mode. Once you figure out how it's easy to do it again. I haven't installed any three-way switches yet but that's pretty much all I have left to have all my switches joined.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
Sorry, didn't see your post from April. I switched from Smart Things to a Vera and used that for a couple months. I've since switched back and I've been mostly happy with Smart Things. My biggest complaint was when their service has issues, it makes your controller mostly useless. I've quit using it as a home alarm because of that and I'm. Kw just using it for home automation. I've been much happier since.
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
WVC, UT
So with the possibility of us building a house I've been looking at wired sensors. My thinking was that I'd have the same type things I have now on my doors but just not have to ever deal with needing to change batteries. It doesn't seem like this is an option though and looks like the wired sensors are for security systems and then the wireless devices are for automation, and they don't cross over really at all. I find this kind of odd. I'm fine with zwave still being wireless, I just want the power to be wired rather than needing to use batteries.

At this point I'm planning to take my sensors and switches and deadbolt with me when we move. I don't have that many devices but do want to build things out a bit more at the new place.

I've jumped down the rabbit hole though and am looking at low voltage lighting, poe security cameras, and whole home audio. Not that I'll install components right when we move in but having the ability to do so easily down the road excites me.
 

Caleb

Well-Known Member
Location
Riverton
Yeah, wired sensors aren't really a thing in the automation world. The closest you'll get is wired sensors with your security system and then integrating your security system with your automation. The sensors still won't work for things you'd normally use sensors for though (turning on/off lights, locking doors, etc).

Having wiring ran for poe cameras would be awesome. This is mostly future proof as POE standards are pretty much set and it's determined by the switch/injector on the other end of the line, not the line itself.
 
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