I got a ticket for being off trail, Who makes the laws?

[taylorj123]

Over safari I was playin around on Fins & things and apparently i went off trail and some guy took a pic of my jeep and reported me, about 30 min. later a helicopter came circling around me and then later down the trail i ran into a ranger and he flipped out and I later received a ticket. I'm just wondering who I would contact about fighting this, and where I would find out more info on who makes the rules. Also if anyone else has had the same problems down there.

 

[Rusted]

Over safari I was playin around on Fins & things and apparently i went off trail and some guy took a pic of my jeep and reported me, about 30 min. later a helicopter came circling around me and then later down the trail i ran into a ranger and he flipped out and I later received a ticket. I'm just wondering who I would contact about fighting this, and where I would find out more info on who makes the rules. Also if anyone else has had the same problems down there.

Not to be a wise guy but what are you going to "fight"? Were you on the trail or off the trail? If you got a ticket for being off the trail, and you were indeed off the trail, then what is your defense? If you believe that you never left the trail, and that it was a false accusation then you have a reason to talk to a judge. My guess is that the photo would stick (if the police have a copy), and that the copter was there to verify what the accuser had stated.

 

[taylorj123]

I was parked on the trail and the guy who took the pic assumed i went up an obstacle because the tire marks led to me. and when the helicopter came we were just sittin around on the trail. basically I am just trying to find out if anyone knows anymore than me about guidelines and rules as to where you can and cannot go.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Contact the BLM... The only picture they have is you parked "on" the trail? Did the complaintant claim he saw you off the road?

 

[Rusted]

Which department issued the ticket? It may be between them and the BLM to define what is "off the trail" and what is "on the trail". Some of the other guys here will know better than me, I think you are in the right place to find out the answer.

 

[taylorj123]

ya the guy took a pic of my license plate on the trail and took a pic of the tire marks off the trail. I received the ticket from the parks & recs.

 

[Todd Adams]

Over safari I was playin around on Fins & things and apparently i went off trail and some guy took a pic of my jeep and reported me, about 30 min. later a helicopter came circling around me and then later down the trail i ran into a ranger and he flipped out and I later received a ticket. I'm just wondering who I would contact about fighting this, and where I would find out more info on who makes the rules. Also if anyone else has had the same problems down there.

We were out playing around on fins and things on Easter Sunday and came upon the Safari Group close to Ken’s Climb. The trail leader had had words with some guy about staying on the trail and called it in a few minutes earlier. The helicopter flew 30’ over our Jeeps and I though he was going to land but did not. I still do not know if they issued any tickets then or not.

Since a few years ago this area has been designated as open to designated routs only. If you did not have the little painted stegosaurs under you Jeep then you were off the trail and in violation.

Our friend developed this trail back in the ‘80’s when it was designated open travel and worked with the BLM to do so. There are so many users now compared to just a few years ago, that the area would be littered with false trails and tire marks if the rules were not enforced.

If you were not in violation and the tire marks were not yours then I would fight the ticket. Only you know for sure.
Todd

 

[Shawn]

If you were not in violation and the tire marks were not yours then I would fight the ticket. Only you know for sure.
Todd

Well said Todd.

 

[Rusted]

If you were not in violation and the tire marks were not yours then I would fight the ticket. Only you know for sure.
Todd

I second that. If you were off the trail and got caught, I say you take your licks, learn a lesson, and all of us are more aware. Kind of rough if you did not know you were in a bad place, but at the same time that is your responsibility. Same thing as saying "I did not know this was a 35 zone" as you bolt through at 50 mph.
But if someone took your plate, and tried to point those tracks as yours, and blame you for something that you did not do, then definatly talk to a judge about it. There should be information on the ticket as to how to dispute it. The more tickets they pass out the worse it makes our hobbie look, if you can show how that was an unfair ticket it only helps our whole cause.

 

[taylorj123]

you guys make really good points. I mean I could go dispute it, because I know nobody saw me do it, they only assumed, but i could not drive all the way down there to lie about something. It just pisses me off they have to close off the good parts of the trails. I guess I'm just trying to find out there reasoning for designating trail ways, so If any of you know anymore about why, chip in. Thanks.

 

[Rusted]

I would also like to know where the line is between "on" and "off". I think that many trails have popular "lunch pull offs" that are more established. Or places where a slower vehicle could pull to the side to be courteous and let others by. Both of which could be done without any environmental damage, and I would use them without a second thought. I would like to know what gives you a ticket and what is still ok. My guess is that would be a call made by an officer to make.

 

[taylorj123]

I would like to know who actually makes the rules and why is it they do so. I know there has to be rules, but why do they have to be so limiting. (Meaning if you go 5 feet to the left you get a ticket.)

 

[closhedbb]

Policy to not notify

I have also been curious about those kind of laws. A couple of months ago, I came way too close to being slapped with a $1000 fine for being in the wrong place. I always assumed that if someone doesn't want you to go somewhere and will fine you lots of money if you do, there would be a sign involved. I was on private property with the permission of the owner, and I was following trails on the property because it's just courtious to the owner. As I was leaving the property a policeman (who was very civil and nice about it) informed me that from the nearby road he could see me and I had apparently crossed into state protected land. I never left what was obviously a well-traveled trail, and didn't cross through any fences of any kind. The policeman said he would refer me to the BLM or Forest Service (I can't remember which to be honest, I am not knowledgeable of such things), and they would decide what to do, if they wanted to worry about it. Well about three months later they contacted me and said that I was in violation and they needed me and my buddy who was with me in an S-10 to come and get our $1000 fines right away. I demanded an explanation and I was told that apparently a while back they made a law stating that the BLM doesn't have to post signs warning when you are crossing into forbidden territory, that it is the driver's responsibility to check before-hand. I found that ridiculous, the implication that I had to check with authorities about every possibility before I do anything. That sounds a lot like how governments in other less freedom-loving countries do things, which I have personally experienced. The fact that they would give me a $1000 ticket for the first time being 100 ft on the wrong side of an unmarked line was absurd to me. Both my buddy and I are Air Force, and luckily he had already left, PCSed to Alabama, so the guy let us off since he couldn't get both of us for the ticket and it wouldn't be fair to only give it to one of us. Now I'm afraid to leave the road because what if I cross that invisible line again? I can't spontaneously off-road on obvious trails anymore. I have to track down the local office, go there during business hours and ask permission or more information for every area that I go to. Is there a better way to know where I can and can't go? If I see a trail, how can I know if I'm actually allowed to be on it if there is no sign or anything?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I demanded an explanation and I was told that apparently a while back they made a law stating that the BLM doesn't have to post signs warning when you are crossing into forbidden territory, that it is the driver's responsibility to check before-hand. I found that ridiculous, the implication that I had to check with authorities about every possibility before I do anything. That sounds a lot like how governments in other less freedom-loving countries do things, which I have personally experienced. ...

Why is it ridiculous? If you are going to head into an area of unkown legality, check with managing land agency. Why would we want signs every 6 feet informing you of the legality of the trail... Let me tell you what would happen, they would be full of bullet holes, in fire rings, and towed behing mullet Chevy's...

What next, signs that natural hot springs are.... hot?

 

[closhedbb]

I do agree with you somewhat. Certainly it is impossible and impractical to put signs up everywhere and and fence in every area that is illegal to offroad in. It would be very unsightly as well. I'm not for that. It is a very difficult situation, indeed. I never leave clearly followed trails because I don't want to ruin the beauty of an area, and if a sign says I can't go there, then I don't. So the only places I go are places that many other people have clearly been before and there is no obvious reason why I shouldn't or there are signs saying it is okay. What got me a bit miffed was the fact that I was was on a clearly used trail which happened to get to close to the foothills. I'm new to Utah and had no idea there was a $1000 do not cross line on my friend's property. He didn't know either. If the BLM had called to inform me of the law and taken my name down to record that I had been warned and mabe offered ideas aas to where I could go or any obvious laws I should know about, I would have been appreciative for the call and information. It was the immediate $1000 fine and the lecture over the phone I got that made it a bad experience. But as far as the laws being as they are, I guess you're right, they do make sense.

 

[Caleb]

I do agree with you somewhat. Certainly it is impossible and impractical to put signs up everywhere and and fence in every area that is illegal to offroad in. It would be very unsightly as well. I'm not for that. It is a very difficult situation, indeed. I never leave clearly followed trails because I don't want to ruin the beauty of an area, and if a sign says I can't go there, then I don't. So the only places I go are places that many other people have clearly been before and there is no obvious reason why I shouldn't or there are signs saying it is okay. What got me a bit miffed was the fact that I was was on a clearly used trail which happened to get to close to the foothills. I'm new to Utah and had no idea there was a $1000 do not cross line on my friend's property. He didn't know either. If the BLM had called to inform me of the law and taken my name down to record that I had been warned and mabe offered ideas aas to where I could go or any obvious laws I should know about, I would have been appreciative for the call and information. It was the immediate $1000 fine and the lecture over the phone I got that made it a bad experience. But as far as the laws being as they are, I guess you're right, they do make sense.

as my history teachier used to always say, "ignorance is no excuse for the law". Your firend should know where his property lines are and whats legal and whats not. I dont buy the, stated protected land on HIS property gig. Like cruiseroutfitter said, if its a new area to YOU then a few minutes on the phone can save you a ton of problems (and in your case nearly $2K in fines). Signs aren't the answer, education is.

 

[V-DAWG]

I would like to know who actually makes the rules and why is it they do so. I know there has to be rules, but why do they have to be so limiting. (Meaning if you go 5 feet to the left you get a ticket.)

Think about this logically. There has to be a boundry, even if it is just 5 feet to the left. If there was not a boundry, then 5 feet to the left would soon be 10 feet, or 10 yards, or 10 miles, etc. When does too far left become too far? At what point do you think a ticket should be given? It is always just 5 feet to the left at some point, right? That is why a designated trail is designated.

 

[Jared]

Anything left is too far left. Leftists stink. Choose the right.

Jared

 

[Houndoc]

Tough issue as too marking boundaries and off-limit areas. Very few of us take the time we should to learn an area before we go and it is too much to ask the government to post everything.

And I think it is a must that areas are limited to established routes only. We cannot have the areas turned into a free for all (see all the threads dealing with protecting the access we have.)

 

[scoutabout]

Are there accurate maps that depict what areas are off limits, open, private land, BLM, FS, etc all on one map? I'm also new to Utah and I'm confused about what's open where. Before going to an area should I physically go to each agency (police, county records, county sheriff, BLM, FS, state) to get them to draw out where I can't go? What's the easiest and most accurate way to 'know before you go'?