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Intresting read...

TimB

TimB

Homesick
Location
Weatherford, Tx
I've read Jim Stiles for many years - and have known him to embrace some of the hypocrosy he talks about. I'm a little glad to see him recognize that, and be a little sick of it.

There's some definate truths to what he says for sure. I know I have been a very active supporter of open access and motorized use of public lands for many years. I even served on a multiple use council in Salt Lake City for quite a while - making the trip for the Thursday night meetings every month because no Jeeper from SLC cared enough to do the job at the time. That was a time when I did not have the resources to be doing that. Thankfully the RR4W club started picking up my gas bill so we could still pay our house payment.

All that hard work to keep the lands open, get Safari permits, get new trails permitted officially..... and I wonder sometimes if I did the right thing. I love the country in Utah - more than I can express without sounding really really gay. I see huge differences in the area compared to what it looked like even 10 or 12 years ago. The sad fact is a lot of people do not possess the personal restraint to give up a little fun for the preservation of the land and experience for others. Many feel that anything they can find to do for fun is fine - and they resent me or anyone else that would suggest otherwise.

My defense is to go places I'm not familiar with as much as possible - then I'm not pained by the memory of what it used to look like. That's not the only reason I seek the unpopular places though - I've always enjoyed the remote and wild places. I have definately started avoiding organized events though. I only attend Safari because I think supporting the RR4W is the right thing to do, and I get to see a lot of friends that I would not otherwise get to see.

Truth is very elusive now though - he's right about that. I support the side of the issues that I think are most likely to help my goals and desires. Not just in land use but in politics as well. I've been lied to so much now that I can't remember how to really believe what anyone with a special interest or any authority says.

A good friend of mine from Moab used to tell me "it's hard to know the truth for all the hired bullshit" - he was quoting somebody but I can't remember who.

Rant off - sorry folks. ;)
 
Houndoc

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
Great article. Thanks for the link.

I think it does really show the issues very well (although his MAHBU is pointless and stupid- has nothing to do with his article.)

The reality is the issue is primarily cultural. New West (which includes many Easteners) vs Old West.

And there is more overlap than most on either side want to admit. Look at the threads on illegal bypasses. Some of that is because it 'degrades' someone favorite trail, but most of it is because we care about the land and hate to see it damaged.

Think that last sentence might sound a little like an environmentalist?

If both sides could focus on the common ground, we could nearly do away with the extremist who want all of Utah either paved/drilled/mined or locked away as a wilderness no-mans land.
 
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Rick B

S.E. Utah Native
Location
Moab
It's nice to see someone else who thinks like I do on this particular issue. I honestly have trouble identifying with either side of the debate, mostly because everything is a world ending crisis, according to both sides. I'm going to link that article on another forum to see what kind of response it gets there.
 
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roktaxi

Locked Up = More Freedom
Location
Grand Junction CO
I've lived in Moab for about 15 years. Wheelin' is what brought me here. The deterioration of some of the trails is consistant with the amout of traffic it receives. I first started coming to Moab in the mid '80s. Trails like Hell's Revenge, Fins 'N Things and others had to be learned, as no markers, paint or tire tracks existed. I had to learn and remember the correct turns and various geological points in order not to get lost. All that has changed now. Like so many things, it's not the physical change but the mentality that created the change that's the issue. And once it's "used up", these people will just move on to trash some other location. Moab has so much more to offer than the 30 or so popular trails. I have wheeled trails just 15 miles from town on major hollidays and not seen a single vehicle all day. Scenic pleasure was not sacrificed. Sadly, when trail restrictions (closures) occur, they often inlclude these remote areas as well. Like with Tim, I get more pleasure and gratification in the remote, less used areas surrounding Moab. It takes a little longer to get there but... but then I don't have to be back at 3:30 or 4:00 to go to McDonnalds before it gets too crowded.

My .02
 
Houndoc

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
roktaxi said:
I first started coming to Moab in the mid '80s. Trails like Hell's Revenge, Fins 'N Things and others had to be learned, as no markers, paint or tire tracks existed. I had to learn and remember the correct turns and various geological points in order not to get lost. All that has changed now.
Click to expand...

When you look at the damage caused by people straying from the trail, I don't see how clearly marking the correct route is a bad thing at all. Not all change is bad.
 
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Rick B

S.E. Utah Native
Location
Moab
That sounds good on paper (or on your computer screen), but most of the off route travel started happening after the trails were marked. Marking the trails made it much easier for the average idiot to find his way out there to see the irresistable off route obstacle that he just has to try, and just like sheep where one goes the others will follow.
 
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roktaxi

Locked Up = More Freedom
Location
Grand Junction CO
Houndoc said:
When you look at the damage caused by people straying from the trail, I don't see how clearly marking the correct route is a bad thing at all. Not all change is bad.
Click to expand...

I did not mean to imply that marking the trails was a bad thing. I only meant that it's speeded up the process of trail over-use and abuse. Trail marking is also a good thing in regards to Search & Rescue not having to deal with as many stranded people not knowing where they are. No matter what, this area will secumb to pressures of over use and abuse. It's human nature as we know it today. Search and Destroy (???)
 
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