Jeep Safari EA comment period ; Letters needed!

[Medsker]

Every trail has a designated lunch spot off the trail so that we will not block the trail but if other users in front of us block the trail, we don’t have much of a choice.
Todd

I have to disagree with this. Both times I was blocked I went up and talked with the leader and they flat out told me this was their trail and they could stop wherever they wanted to and I would have to wait. Brady, the guy I was with who was a regular at the Safari and usually went on the runs said that was the way they always did it so they could show everyone who was boss. Is that the normal, I don't know. It's just what happened to me.

I'm assuming that you are refering to the RR4W as the "self pronounced gods of Moab"... If I am wrong, I apologize, if I am right, then my only comment is we are glad that you will not be back to EJS in the future. That is a topic for another thread.

Here is one good reason why you should support Alternate A:

In the EA, the BLM states that virtually all of the percieved damage to the trails is caused by people other than the EJS participants. If some (or all) trails are closed to permitted use, as SUWA and other greens want, how long do you think it will be before they come back with this: "The BLM closed these trails because of the damage that was occuring during Jeep Safari, but it has continued. They must close the trails to all motorized use!" This is the way they use the system, twist the facts. Denying a permit for a legitimate use (especially on a trail like Pritchett or Hey Joe Canyon, which receive virtually no damage from the permitted use), is the first and easiest step toward permanent closure.

That's my take on things. If you don't like the crowds or politics of EJS, please stay away that week. But if you like to wheel in Moab at any time, please let the BLM know that you support Alternate A.

Jeff Stevens
Moab Friends-For-Wheelin'
Red Rock 4-Wheelers

I honestly don't know who the trail leaders were. And although I think your first paragragh was a little harsh The rest of what you said does make sense. I definately don't want permanent closure down there. I also would appreciate a "How-to" letter and then I will get mine sent off.

Medsker

 

[Todd Adams]

I have to disagree with this. Both times I was blocked I went up and talked with the leader and they flat out told me this was their trail and they could stop wherever they wanted to and I would have to wait. Brady, the guy I was with who was a regular at the Safari and usually went on the runs said that was the way they always did it so they could show everyone who was boss. Is that the normal, I don't know. It's just what happened to me.

Medsker

All I can say is that we do have designated lunch spots that don't block the trail. This of course is up to the trail leader where the group stops and has lunch. One problem I have personally had is on Gold Bar Rim Trail and the problem has to do with all the traffic coming off of Golden Spike and Rusty Nail.

Again the problem is with non registered vehicles blocking the way at the intersection which is also close to the cliff edge lunch spot for the Gold Bar Rim Trail. So if the BLM is willing to close our trail to non registered vehicles then from a trail leader’s standpoint I want to take advantage of it.

On the other hand I would like to run Rusty Nail when not leading a trail so now I wont be able to unless I come back another time.

As for showing “who” is boss, I as a trail leader, would never intentionally cause user conflicts but then I am only one of about 350 other trail officials. We are all volunteers and just people but there are Jeepers that have given some of the trail leaders an “attitude”. Sorry, I will not apologize for other trail leaders with an “attitude” nor will I have a problem having my lunch spot in the trail if I am forced to do so.

Todd

 

[Medsker]

All I can say is that we do have designated lunch spots that don't block the trail. This of course is up to the trail leader where the group stops and has lunch. One problem I have personally had is on Gold Bar Rim Trail and the problem has to do with all the traffic coming off of Golden Spike and Rusty Nail.

Again the problem is with non registered vehicles blocking the way at the intersection which is also close to the cliff edge lunch spot for the Gold Bar Rim Trail. So if the BLM is willing to close our trail to non registered vehicles then from a trail leader’s standpoint I want to take advantage of it.

On the other hand I would like to run Rusty Nail when not leading a trail so now I wont be able to unless I come back another time.

As for showing “who” is boss, I as a trail leader, would never intentionally cause user conflicts but then I am only one of about 350 other trail officials. We are all volunteers and just people but there are Jeepers that have given some of the trail leaders an “attitude”. Sorry, I will not apologize for other trail leaders with an “attitude” nor will I have a problem having my lunch spot in the trail if I am forced to do so.

Todd

It's good to know you are not one of the ones who would intentionally cause problems. One of the two I ran into was, the other one was friendly but parked in a place intentionally to block the trail and told me so. The first one did everything in his power to make me lose my cool but I didn't and just turned around and went another way. I am sure there are good people down there, Greenjeep on here I have met and thought was a nice guy, I stayed in someones back yard once when I was down with Brett Davis and I rolled my first Jeep and met many of his friends and had a lot of fun. I can see your point of view about wanting the trail closed so you can run it at your own pace and not worry about "other" rigs. I guess it doesn't matter to me one way or another because I can see advantages and disadvantages both ways. I do hope it gets moved to a different weekend so there is less riff raft down there and then I might try it again with someone like you and see if I like it. I guess only time will tell. Until then I will continue to go the week before like I have been the last five years.

Medsker

 

[OCNORB]

Until then I will continue to go the week before like I have been the last five years.

Medsker

I like the week after- so much more clean up to do. :sick: I have ran with the official EJS crew and solo, and I can tell you that the trail leaders I have been with do everything in their power to make it an enjoyable experience for everyone, while also educating them about land use issues. I know that most of the trash we pick up is not from the EJS guys because most of it is beer cans.

 

[Medsker]

I like the week after- so much more clean up to do.

I like that idea, I never thought about that. I'll have to see if I can schedule that next year.

 

[greenjeep]

So, for those of us who are not the most gifted of letter writers. Is there an example of a letter out there that would get our point across?

Dear Moab Field Office,

I support Alterative A for the Red Rock 4 Wheelers Easter Jeep Safari Enviornmental Assesment.

Thank you,
James K


It can really be that simple, a bit more depth would sure be appreciated , JUST SEND SOMETHING SHOWING YOUR SUPPORT!!

 

[Rick B]

Todd:

I had no intention of starting a new thread, or hijacking this one, but you asked for my perspective, so I gave it. I'm sorry it wasn't really what you wanted to see/hear, but that's the way it is.

drtsqrl/ Jeff:

I told you months ago, when you asked, why I am not, have never been, and will never be a member of RR4W. You can search for the thread if you forgot, I'm not going into it again.



For the others who can't seem to grasp the simplicity of what is needed, here is a copy/paste of my letter. All you really have to say is that you are in favor of Alternative A, but please do it in your own words, form letters are often dismissed or simply thrown out. Although it is not necessary I marked the front of the envelope below the BLM address:
EA UT-060-2005-080 COMMENT ENCLOSED





US DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT
MOAB FIELD OFFICE
82 EAST DOGWOOD AVENUE
MOAB, UT 84532


RE: DRAFT ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT UT-060-2005-080


To Whom It May Concern:

I am writing to express my support for Alternative A in the Draft Environmental Assessment concerning the renewal of the permit for Red Rocks 4-Wheelers Jeep Safari and Fall Campout.

While I personally do not participate in either event, I feel it is necessary to allow the events to continue as they have in the past for the enjoyment of those who do participate. I do not feel there is any reason to significantly alter the permits for these and other similar events. It is important to provide this type of organized outing for those who wish to participate.

I use the routes that Red Rock 4-Wheelers is using for their events. My personal experience with the Jeep Safari and Fall Campout’s use of these routes is that there is no noticeable long-term impact from their use.

Thank you,

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Well written Rick

 

[Todd Adams]

Linda's and my letter were about the same. We each sent a copy to the Moab as well as the Monticello Field Offices.
Todd

U.S. Department of the Interior
Bureau of Land Management
Moab Field Office
82 East Dogwood Avenue, Moab, Utah 84532

Concerning the United States Department of Interior
Bureau of Land Management
Draft Environmental Assessment UT-060-2005-080
Red Rock 4-Wheelers Jeep Safari and Fall Campout 5-Year Permit
Renewal and Other Permitted, Non-Competitive Motorized Use of
Jeep Safari Routes
Location: Grand and San Juan Counties, Utah

As a trail leader during the Moab Easter Jeep Safari I feel it would be a mistake to adopt anything but alternative “A”. As trail leaders it is our responsibility to spread the word of “Tread Lightly” to our participants. Without us that ”word” would not be spread and passed to others that use these trails at other times of the year.

4 -Wheeling is becoming a popular recreational pastime. It takes groups like the Red Rock 4-Wheelers to show others the importance of protecting our environment while enjoying the outdoors. Uneducated people tend to follow by example. We want that example to be respectful to our public land. During the Moab Easter Jeep Safari it is the trail leaders that educate our participants to respect our public land.

Sincerely,
Linda Adams

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Nice Todd!, nice!

 

[jimfoo]

Ejs Ea

Another reason to write supporting alternative A, even if you aren't EJS
atendees, is that what ever the decision, it will affect anyone who needs
a permit. If you go to Moab with your local club, and you have 75 or more
people in your group, you need a permit, and can't run any trails the BLM
doesn't approve for EJS. If you want a guided trip or paid training, you
can't run any trails not approved for EJS.
Here is my letter I'm sending.

To whom it may concern:

I urge you to adopt alternative A in the Draft Environmental Assessment concerning the renewal of
the permit for Red Rocks 4-Wheelers Jeep Safari and Fall Campout. While I have never been to Easter
Jeep safari, I believe that closing some or all of the trails only penalizes those who take care of them
the most. I belong to the Solihull Society, a Land Rover club in Denver. We occasionally have Rallies
in Moab, with under 100 vehicles. Most of the atendees are return members, but some are new to 4
wheeling and need education in all aspects including treading lightly. Bill Burke and other outfitters
also educate people, yet these are all the other groups who would be blocked from using trails. If
the Red Rocks 4-Wheelers permit is restricted or denied, then you are opening some or all of the trails
to the sole use of people who may be less informed about trail use and the fragile ecosystem that
surrounds the trails. People will still flock to Moab at Easter whether the EJS is allowed or not, so
it is better to allow trails to be open to those that have the most interest in preserving them.

Please choose alternative A.

Jim Hall
Evergreen, Colorado

 

[greenjeep]

Another reason to write supporting alternative A, even if you aren't EJS
atendees, is that what ever the decision, it will affect anyone who needs
a permit. If you go to Moab with your local club, and you have 75 or more
people in your group, you need a permit, and can't run any trails the BLM
doesn't approve for EJS. If you want a guided trip or paid training, you
can't run any trails not approved for EJS.

Good point, but actually the group size is 49 or less otherwise you need a permit.

 

[Cody]

first off, I support initiative A.

Second, should use be limited, how would that be enforced?

Cody

 

[jimfoo]

Good point, but actually the group size is 49 or less otherwise you need a permit.

My bad. I got the 75 from the COA4WDCI newsletter talking about Forest
Permits. I had thought the FS and BLM used the same rules, but maybe not.

 

[ZUKEYPR]

You folks kill me. Why don't you agree to disagree. You write stuff such as "I respect your opinion" but then you post thread after thread after thread trying to convince someone that your view is the only correct view. Face it there are three or four folks on this board that no matter what is said are always right in their minds, will attempt to counter any comment to the contrary of their views, that will attempt to gang up on any who speaks against them, that are so closed minded to "honestly" take someone elses opinion for "true" consideration, that it completely detracts from the orginal intent of the thread. I've written my letter in support of what I feel is best for "all" members of the wheeling community, mostly but not all of option A.

 

[ZUKEYPR]

I can't help but think that this comment is aimed at me...

I'm sorry that my passion for keeping trails open bleeds through into my posts, but it happens. I agree to disagree with on a regular basis when it comes to landuse, being vocal about my opinion is just that.

PS, you sound like a "involved" guy, why don't you get involved in the business end of things and put your money where your mouth is?

Come join us at a U4WDA Board Meeting or Cleanup, come out to a BLM cleanup, join Usa-All and get involved in their planning. Plenty of ways to step up to the plate.

Just like I said...................BTW, I'm more involved than you think, in more ways...probably........than even possibly you. Yes, imagine that, one could be involved even if they are not a member of the U4WDA. Nothing against them at all, just my choice. But I'm sure now, the select few will want to hammer this issue as well until it's dead so to reinterate, "put it aside" and stick to the issue, that is if you can.

 

[mbryson]

Just like I said...................BTW, I'm more involved than you think, in more ways...probably........than even possibly you. Yes, imagine that, one could be involved even if they are not a member of the U4WDA. Nothing against them at all, just my choice. But I'm sure now, the select few will want to hammer this issue as well until it's dead so to reinterate, "put it aside" and stick to the issue, that is if you can.

Yeah, let's stick to the issue. If you want to beat up on U4WDA, start another thread. From my perspective, this thread is about writing a letter to help RR4W keep Moab trails open. Whether you respect their work or not, they've established and kept a LOT of trails open in that area. If you've used or plan to use those trails, IMHO you SHOULD write this letter supporting initiative A.

 

[Todd Adams]

Just like I said...................BTW, I'm more involved than you think, in more ways...probably........than even possibly you. QUOTE]


Jeff,

I know what Kurt and the rest of us in the U4WDA and RR4W's do to not only promote proper land use that I know you do to but also in working with local land managers. We just have a different point of view than someone that is not involved fully.

Don't take offence but sometimes you just have to be there. I am taking about working both sides of the fence from working with land managers to the litigation side. Basically all Kurt and the rest of us are trying to do is keep the riffraff from driving over the fence we are sitting on. I truly believe that is also what I have seen you try to do, but without personally being involved, working with folks at the BLM and Forest Service (they are hard to work with and we have to gain their trust since all they see is the abuse) you just cannot get the full picture. Neither can you get the full picture unless you have been personally involved in litigating against these same land managers.

We have to work together as united front. I am not just talking about U4WDA or RR4W’s. I include United 4 Wheel Drive Associations, Blue Ribbon Coalition, Utah OHV Trail Patrol and Utah Shared Access. If you have ever been to “our booth” at the arena during Easter Jeep Safari you would find all these groups at one spot with people representing all of these groups most of them members of all of the mentioned groups. Kurt is just one of these united people. I can assure you that we all speak the same language even though some of us are a bit more abrupt.

If someone working on their own thinks they are helping for the best possible reasons, they may not be helping since they don’t have the full picture. Remember the “Cause” is to keep the trails we have open and try to get what we have lost back. Whether you know it or not we walk a fine line on that fence I was talking about earlier.

We are not a secret society trying to force our views on anyone. We welcome anyone with open arms to come help the "Cause”. Education comes with time and from the right sources. You may not think the U4WDA is the right source for this education but if you come to our meetings and the meetings of some of the other groups, you just may find that we are working towards the same goals.

Believe this when I tell you I resisted organized 4x4 groups for many years. Some of the articles I wrote about Land Use on 4X4 NOW were pre U4WDA. Now I can tell you the best way to effect change is within a unified group that has the same goals as you do. Come voice your opinion.

So right now the cause asks everyone to write a letter to the BLM offices in Moab and Monticello asking to adopt plan “A” for the RR4W’s permit. Even if you do not agree with everything in alternate “A”, it is by far the best choice for both the Easter Safari as well as continued non-permitted wheeling in and around Moab.

Todd

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Good words Todd

 

[greenjeep]

I've written my letter in support of what I feel is best for "all" members of the wheeling community, mostly but not all of option A.

If you don't mind elaborating, what is your problem supporting all of Alternative A?