Legend Class Rules 2014

Craig S

Commando
Location
Delta, Utah
Hi Teams,

Legend class rules with the tire size increased from 40" to 42". Stock class stays the same as last year. I will update the OSRC website where the rules are located.


2. Legend Class

2.1 Tires-42" maximum measured tire diameter by sidewall designation. Three bonus points (-3) issued for each inch below 42" to a minimum of 35".

2.2 Steering-Front axle steering only, rear steer is not allowed.

2.3 Body-Body panels are required. Body panels must closely match the original factory configuration of the vehicle. 66% of
the original sheet metal must be in place. Tube bodied vehicles with skins go to Pro Mod.

2.4 Seating-Vehicles must have two (2) seats side by side.

2.5 Engine-Mass produced automobile/light-truck engine available to the public mounted forward of the driver.

2.6 Suspension-Changes in wheelbase allowed from normal suspension movement only.
2.7 Frame-Box type or factory frame required (no tube buggies). 66% of original factory frame must be in place.

2.8 Fuel System-Factory fuel tank and vents are acceptable. The tanks and vents must be in the stock location and configuration to pass tech. Any modifications to the factory systems will require a rollover valve and fuel vent line shutoff valve located near the fuel tank and accessible to track personnel.

2.8 Factory Ignition Switches- Acceptable for the legend class if in the original factory location and configuration. Ignition kill switches must be used if factory ignition switch is not. OSRC technical inspector to determine if the kill switch is acceptable.

2.9 Formula Toyota - (F Toy) allowed in class with +15 penalty assessed. Only allowed when there are not enough F Toy vehicles for
a class.

2.10 General Vehicle Requirements – General vehicle requirements apply- (see section 6).
 

Gravy

Ant Anstead of Dirtbikes
Supporting Member
Formula Toy should not be allowed in Legend class. They should be lumped in with the promod class.
They violate rule 2.3 and often 2.7. (We've seen Formula Toy clean multiple unlimited lines in years past. They are tube buggies: just because they have leaf springs and some original frame doesn't mean they are not a tube buggy).

Can we also clarify rule 2.3? [Body panels must closely match the original factory configuration of the vehicle].
Can we make this more subjective? Perhaps one narrowed nose or tail section, and no narrowed overall width or something to that effect?
 

skippy

Pretend Fabricator
Location
Tooele
Formula Toy should not be allowed in Legend class. They should be lumped in with the promod class.
They violate rule 2.3 and often 2.7. (We've seen Formula Toy clean multiple unlimited lines in years past. They are tube buggies: just because they have leaf springs and some original frame doesn't mean they are not a tube buggy).

Can we also clarify rule 2.3? [Body panels must closely match the original factory configuration of the vehicle].
Can we make this more subjective? Perhaps one narrowed nose or tail section, and no narrowed overall width or something to that effect?


I will agree with Stratton on this there were a few rigs this last year that had to run promod/unlimited that were far less capable than many of the F toys that come out every year, The F toy class is outdated and if there arent enough F toys to compete in there own class I think Pro mod is the place for them as well
 

maveric

Crawler Collecter
Formula Toy should not be allowed in Legend class. They should be lumped in with the promod class.
They violate rule 2.3 and often 2.7. (We've seen Formula Toy clean multiple unlimited lines in years past. They are tube buggies: just because they have leaf springs and some original frame doesn't mean they are not a tube buggy).
QUOTE]

"Class Legal" Formula Toyotas have a complete Toyota pickup or 4runner frame. Including original (or SAS) spring hangers in the front. Other than removing the rear bumper bracket mounts from the OEM frame, it is the stock length of a std cab, short box truck. Just for clarification.

And we have seen other Legend vehicles clean multiple Unlimited lines too.

With that being said, if we do not have enough ftoys this year, we are planning to step up to the Promod class anyway. I personally don't have any heartburn with running the next class up, but not sure how Eli would feel about it.
 

Cascadia

Undecided
Location
Orem, Utah
I also agree with Stratton. If a f toy can compete with no body, what is to stop a legends rig with an almost full body from chopping the body off and running a full tube buggy with some stock frame?
 

Gravy

Ant Anstead of Dirtbikes
Supporting Member
Thank you for clarifying about the full frame Chris. To clarifty the part of 2.7 I was referring to was (no tube buggies)

Nevertheless frame or not, I don't think anyone can argue by common definition that an F-toy is not a tube buggy and additionally fills no part of rule 2.3.
Many unlimited and promod cars have an OEM frame. (Bart's SuperRanger comes to mind as one excellent functioning example).
A tube buggy has an enormous advantage over a full bodied rig. (As outlines in rule 2.3) Not just in clearance, but weight, COG, visibility, etc....

Formula Toy does not belong in Legend.

I don't believe it will be a disadvantage to F-Toys either. I think competing with similar rigs will push superior driving.

I don't want to create a rift. OSRC is the most fun event of the year and I love seeing you guys out there and really enjoy your company too. I just want to see classes that score closely, and I think you'd agree that showing up to an event where you know you'll place because there are only 3 competitors in your class just isn't fun.

We had 3 big classes in 2013 and 2012 and 1 class were everyone placed (only 2 and 3 competitors).

I can see 2-3 competitors from 2013 legend that could run promod and another 2-3 from unlimited that would also.
Add to that 3 ftoys and you've got a really fun class.
(2013 results)
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(2012 results)
 
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McGhie

O hey there Pard!
Location
SLC
I love this event. Every year all the ftoy guys say we have 1million ftoys showing up this year! Never happens. If we move them all they will do is complain. Just leave them alone and we can all go about having fun and they can all go home with a trophy!
 

maveric

Crawler Collecter
I love this event. Every year all the ftoy guys say we have 1million ftoys showing up this year! Never happens. If we move them all they will do is complain. Just leave them alone and we can all go about having fun and they can all go home with a trophy!

Thanks for your input.
Maybe we should just start a "Ftoy bashing" thread, instead of cluttering this one.
I guess I'm not really seeing where the bitch is about this anyway. How often in the past have any ftoys ran against the legends???
 
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maveric

Crawler Collecter
Yes they did and for the first year that class was offered they still got more rigs there than the Ftoys.

That could be because there have been over 929,992 Jk's manufactured since 2007, but only about 150 ftoys manufactured by Hendrix....worldwide. The odds of there being more JK's at an event is going to be greater just because of the numbers...




:cody:
 
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Craig S

Commando
Location
Delta, Utah
Hi Teams,

Let’s be positive with the F Toy situation. The F Toys have not been an issue to date and there have not been any problems. The F Toy class has been supported by a dedicated group of Teams from Colorado since the beginning of OSRC. We Rock dropped the class a few years ago and left the F Toy teams without a place to compete. I do support the F Toy class while acknowledging that the turnout has been light. However, I do not want to throw them under the bus for a situation that has not developed or caused problems in the past. If the situation develops that F Toys are required to compete in a different class at this year’s event, let’s discuss the issue at the drivers meeting. Let’s all keep the situation in mind and work together on a solution that is fair for everyone. Thanks for the input; it really does help to know what everybody is thinking.

Craig
 

Gravy

Ant Anstead of Dirtbikes
Supporting Member
putting Ftoy in promod doesn't "throw them under the bus" it gives them an equal playing field.

if you compare the scores last year from Ftoy (where they ran the same courses as legend) to the scores from Legends.
You'll see that putting ftoy in legend throws the actual legend cars under the bus. We can't compete with tube buggys.

Just because they run leaf springs doesn't mean it's not a tube buggy.
 

iamsparticus

Take your Rig to the Edge
Location
Ogden,Ut
well not to take away from the conversation but i have a question about the legends class that has nothing to do with F-toys lol My buggy is a FJ80 frame, stock axles and suspension style, as well as the original hood, and fenders and firewall. But the rest of the body has been cut off much like my 4runner. Will i be able to stay in the legends or am i bound for unlimited class? No full hydro steer and wheel base is stock as well as all the front suspension, the rear has air shocks instead of coils so that is different. What are peoples thoughts on that?
 

Jinx

when in doubt, upgrade!
Location
So Jordan, Utah
And just because it has a tube chassis doesn't mean it can be competitive with linked, full hydro rigs with massive suspension travel and front dig capabilities....

These are great points but for me the big issue is fear of body damage. A lot of guys will/do by pass on a line because they don't want to crunch sheet metal (and I don't blame them) where a tube chassis can lay it on the rock and go...

Maybe like Craig suggests, we can work something out. For example, if the point spread between the legends car and the Ftoys in the past was 30 points, then maybe the Ftoys can start with a +30 and we can have enough guys to compete...

Thinking as I type, the same could be said for moving the Ftoys to the ProMod Class... maybe a -30...

Class balance or better said "having enough teams to complete," could be the contributing/determining factor for which way they go.
 

Gravy

Ant Anstead of Dirtbikes
Supporting Member
Look, I'm not trying to bust your chops Chris, so read this as if we were hanging out at the fire or something.

... just because it has a tube chassis doesn't mean it can be competitive with linked, full hydro rigs with massive suspension travel and front dig capabilities....

Yes, yes it does. You have rear dig. You know from years of competing: massive suspension travel isn't necessary for crawling competitions, and full hydro is not a huge advantage compared to assist on a rig that weighs between 2640-3000 lbs.
Assist works great on my stripped down 4200lb rig. There are rigs in Legend that weigh over 6000lbs. A tube buggy has a huge advantage.
Please read the promod rules. F-toys would be very competitive.
Just because you picked leaf springs and assist doesn't mean it's not a buggy. Look at the overall scores.


Look at the class rules. Putting an Ftoy rig in legends is a blatant disregard to them. So what you have leaf springs and assist? Half the Legends class runs leaf springs, assist and doesn't even have dig at all.
You make it seem like it's putting you at a disadvantage.
Jinx is absolutely right: F-toys have zero body = huge advantage.

But truly the only real measuring stick is overall scores.
Please looks at the math: math is factual.
Here are some figures:

2013 FToy class winner scored a -110? Ya... that's 57 points less than the legend class winner. (Let me put that into perspective: Ftoy winner could have entirely skipped 1 course and still won)

The average point spread between rigs in Ftoys and Legends (that fully competed both days)?

2013
FToy points average -70 + Legend points average 62 = 132 points difference

2012 + 2013 = 2 years average points
Ftoy points average -22 + Legend points average 71 = 93 points difference

93 point spread.
Even with a 30point penalty; it's not competitive, it's like allowing a gun in a knife fight...:ugh:

It opens up a can of worms for judges, do they allow every driver that has cut off the body on whatever rig and now wants to run Legends? :sick:

The Legend class vehicles are essentially trail rigs that are just outside of street legal or run a larger than 37" tire. (There were Legend rigs last year that were plated street legal.)
NOT specialized competition tube buggies.
66% stock body and frame is what defines the Legends class. Period.


I say, either step it up to promod and have a competitive class.
or
Quit saying how FToy's are "special" and allow F-toy look-a-like rigs in the "FTOY class, (that includes factory linked rigs like Seth's (iamsparticus) or Jeeps, etc. with bodies chopped off).



(To examine my figures: I threw out Quentin Morse's, Seth Johnson's, and Derek Pace's results because they had 4 or more courses at 50points and with those figures we can safely assume they didn't fully compete the second day)
 
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