Looking for a laptop...

[Spork]

thats all!

They are different for sure, if you've used one thing your whole life then ofcourse anything new is going to take some getting used to. THERE IS A LEARNING CURVE and anyone that says otherwise is living in another world. Like mentioned though, once you learn how the mac works it's a whole new outlook on computing.

I had a VMS guy tell me the same thing...

I feel like the Mac learning curve is downplayed a lot. There are some things that are easy to figure out and others that should be easy that just aren't. My sister needed help getting hers to work with her DSL and that was a piece of cake to get going, I didn't like the browser so I thought I would download firefox and use it. The file came in and I have no idea where it went, couldn't find a search utility, file browser, or anything that indicated where it went. Maybe the solution was staring me in the face but I couldn't see it. (similar to how windows XP has hidden all the traditional icons and say it's new and improved and I just think it's crap and the first thing I do is make the desktop look like NT 4.0 )

 

[AINT SKEERED]

never claimed it to be much, but my 2Ghz iMac will walk circles around my 2Ghz Windows box, it's not even a comparison.

And my 2.2 Ghz AMD walks circles around a 3Ghz Intel... You gotta look big picture...

 

[78mitsu]

And my 2.2 Ghz AMD walks circles around a 3Ghz Intel. It's apples to oranges and personal preference at this point in the conversation.

There are so many variables to system performance, saying that your 2.2 outruns a 3.0... what is the system bus speed-- how deep is the backplane -- how much memory -- what spindle speed. If you compare a properly built amd to a properly built Intel the AMD will only slightly edge the Intel - but it will cost more power and produce better then double the heat. An AMD makes a better sportscar - but Intel makes a better truck. Gaming = AMD Server=INTEL

 

[Meat_]

78mitsu pretty much nailed it, OS X handles it's tasks much differently from windows, it has never taken nearly the same amount of processor to handle the same tasks. Even on my "non-real" G5 iMac I can knock out video projects pretty quickly (about 1.5 hours for every hour of raw video for a finished project ready to view or burn to DVD), I've yet to see a consumer PC do it any faster (especially a a factory configured PC).
...

at this point in the game I'll say anyone that wants to buy a gaming machine should not even consider a Mac, although with the new intel stuff they are doing pretty good (it's still not a gaming machine though, and that's never been their focus).

Ya he out posted me. I mostly think of that video when people make outlandish claims about PC vs Mac, and although video games are not video editing they both use a LOT of clock cycles and clock cycles are a lot cheaper on the non Mac side. My 2 year old a64 will out encode your G5 and I paid a LOT less for it.

One thing people always forget in the comparison now that Mac does have some fast machines is that you pay a LOT more for the same horse power than you do on a PC

I am with you on the fact that most factory PC's are less than steller, but it's so cheap and easy to build your own I don't even consider factory PC's in the equation.

Man, 2 years old? I'm slipping, time for a new CPU/mobo

 

[Meat_]

...If you compare a properly built amd to a properly built Intel the AMD will only slightly edge the Intel - but it will cost more power and produce better then double the heat...

Uhhh.... no. In the old days of AMD the heat comment rang true, but Intel is actually the hairdryer now, and a "3200+" AMD that runs at 2ish GHz will stomp a P4 at 3.2GHz and make much less heat while using much less juice, Intel is about to close the gap and actually pull ahead of AMD again real soon with thier new offering however.

 

[Tacoma]

. I doubt you can find a 5 year old PC that is even still running let alone do what my iMac does.

Come over and I'll show you this one LOL I upgraded the CD drive to a burner. That's it.

 

[78mitsu]

Uhhh.... no. In the old days of AMD the heat comment rang true, but Intel is actually the hairdryer now, and a "3200+" AMD that runs at 2ish GHz will stomp a P4 at 3.2GHz and make much less heat while using much less juice, Intel is about to close the gap and actually pull ahead of AMD again real soon with thier new offering however.

Not even... The AMD 3200+ should have been called the 2800+ I've personally benchmarked the 3200+ and a 3.2 Ghz Intel. The intel smoked the AMD Barton Processor. and it's true that the 75.something watts of heat produced by the barton is less then the 82 something that the intel does, but when you overclock the AMD which is what they have to do to the amd to make it perform like the Intel, it produces over 90 watts of heat, which isn't double, but when you have to maintain a delicate balance between the overclock rate and the thermal limit switch on the motherboard its may as well be.

 

[78mitsu]

Before this thread gets hijacked into a geek-war for Greg: I think the best advice would be to go to a macstore or a compusa or a circuit city and play with a couple macs play with a couple toshibas. see which one fits you best. There is more to consider about a laptop then just performance and OS, there is also portability weight DURABILITY (don't under estimate Durability) buy the Tecra if you're going to beat on it and don't want a toughbook. Do you need a tablet? etc. etc. etc. It's more of a personal decision like buying a car then a clear consensis of what is the "Best"

 

[Meat_]

Not even... The AMD 3200+ should have been called the 2800+ I've personally benchmarked the 3200+ and a 3.2 Ghz Intel. The intel smoked the AMD Barton Processor. and it's true that the 75.something watts of heat produced by the barton is less then the 82 something that the intel does, but when you overclock the AMD which is what they have to do to the amd to make it perform like the Intel, it produces over 90 watts of heat, which isn't double, but when you have to maintain a delicate balance between the overclock rate and the thermal limit switch on the motherboard its may as well be.

I guess all the eleventyteen hundred other pros that compared them were wrong

..portability weight DURABILITY (don't under estimate Durability) buy the Tecra if you're going to beat on it and don't want a toughbook. Do you need a tablet? etc. etc. etc. It's more of a personal decision like buying a car then a clear consensis of what is the "Best"

And battery life

 

[78mitsu]

Just the ones that you read I guess. We're talking about a simple floating point calculation for the benchmark. It's not something that can be faked or change or futsed with --- it is what it is ---

and 10-4 on the battery life. Definatly important.

 

[STPPINZ]

You're joking right? I've got a 8 year old Intel box that has been running 24/7 since I built it and it's faster than your 3 year newer iMac

Whenever I read a comment like that I just have to post this video*


*Disclaimer to preempt someone telling me that this video is not about video editing, yes I realize that Greg never said anything about playing games

Edit: forgot what year this is :freak:[/QUOTE]

So your old Intel box can extract digital video (through firewire which was included) and photos, edit them, make a hour and a half "movie" with music, transitions and burn them on to HD DVD's? And still be able to do everything else that a day to day computer does on a nice looking 17 inch Flat Pannel? I doubt it. I spent $1300 5 years ago and havn't touched it sence and it is still works great. I think that is a pretty good investment that you couldn't find in the PC world. Personally I think games are a waste of time, I would rather be out in my shop. I use my computer to produce, if I wanted to play games I would get a game consoles....when I was 15.

 

[mbryson]

. I doubt you can find a 5 year old PC that is even still running let alone do what my iMac does.

I've got 4 PC machines at home. I really don't know how old some of them are, but the oldest is a 733. That's gotta be 7 or 8 years old. My KIDS use it. I've 'wiped' it 2 or 3 times since my kids started using it about 3-4 years ago.

I admin a small network with both types of machines (Wintel=mostly Dell Optiplex workstations (we have a few cheaper $500 PCs and I'd not buy them again, they've been a little troublesome, esp. when I can get the better models for about $800 or a little more), Apples=mostly G5 but we still have a few G4s in use). I come from a Windows/Netware (I've been supporting that stuff for the past 12 years) background but I HAVE to know how the Macs work to support them. There's good and bad on both sides of the fence. I've really struggled to get up to speed on Mac OS because it's just different. I know how to make Windows work and do what I want it to do. There are hoops to jump through in both operating systems.

We leave ALL our machines on all the time. Later XP versions don't need to be rebooted two or three times per day, I'm getting at least 3-4 weeks out of a reboot on most of my Windows machines. The Macs run great and have their little call home to mom features to get their OS and Adobe updates. We keep everything updated to the latest patches (sometimes that'll bite you, but mostly we're OK) and have very little trouble with either platform. They usually need a reboot about the same time (maybe more often, but our designers tend to push them kinda hard with 200 meg Creative Suite files).


Here's how I see it.

Wintel:
Advantages: CHEAP (but I don't buy the ultra cheap stuff due to reliability issues), software available everywhere, easy to fix and parts are readily available
Disadvantages: Microsoft packaged junk (IE for one), security issues, viruses, etc.

MAC:
Advantages: PREMIUM machine. G5 cases are literally works of art. Machined aluminum is TOP notch and it just carries through the rest of the machine. Very nice components that add to the reliability. We have an iBook around and i like it quite a bit also. I've no experience with the iMac line, but some of our Mac users have them at home and like them. No real issues I've heard about.
Disadvantages: COST and availability of parts (EVERYTHING gets shipped in overnight--MacDocs (east side of the road about 14thish South State) has been really good to me helping us out when we needed some help)..... this has changed over the past year or so with the success of the iPod. I think that's making people notice Apple again.

Greg if you're an advanced PC user, I'd stick to the PC because you know how it works and how to swear at it. If you're a novice PC user, you might really like the Mac. There's things to like and hate about both platforms. Mac users are FIERCELY loyal and I don't know many Windows users that are that loyal to their machines. That might say something.

I'll be sticking to my PCs, but LOVE the elegance and simplicity of the Mac. Wish I'd started with them as soon as OSX came out.

 

[Devel]

you know i stumbled across this video and thought about this conversation
ENJOY!!!:greg:

http://www.break.com/index/pcvsmac1.html

 

[STPPINZ]

mbryson,

I agree with you that there are positive sides to both platforms but my point is that Im not an I.T. guy what so ever and I work the heck out of my machine. In the past 5 years have never lost any data, never crashed NOTHING! And Im just not surfen the net. For what was brought up at the first of the post for what the new lap top was going to be used for (Digital media, music, email, internet surfing) I belive a Mac is a superior machine. Im not a network guy but if you were going to net work, maybe PC's would be the way to go. Just my opinion I guess.

 

[mbryson]

mbryson,

I agree with you that there are positive sides to both platforms but my point is that Im not an I.T. guy what so ever and I work the heck out of my machine. In the past 5 years have never lost any data, never crashed NOTHING! And Im just not surfen the net. For what was brought up at the first of the post for what the new lap top was going to be used for (Digital media, music, email, internet surfing) I belive a Mac is a superior machine. Im not a network guy but if you were going to net work, maybe PC's would be the way to go. Just my opinion I guess.

Under those parameters, I'd go with whatever you get the best bang for the buck on based on what you are used to. If you're a current PC user, you're going to have to put some time into learning OSX and it honestly might frustrate you enough that you'll regret your more expensive decision.

PC or MAC will work fine for digital media, music (using iTunes or ????), email (I'd rather have Windows versions here), internet surfing.....

I really don't understand why people complain about their computers. All of mine have been pretty reliable other than one that I let my wife use Internet Explorer on for a while (we use XP Professional at home). We converted her to Firefox and we've not had any issues for quite some time. {knock on wood}

 

[STPPINZ]

Yea, but what would you want to be surf'en on at the airport when you are picken up chicks? A bulky brick or a sweet new MacBook?

 

[AINT SKEERED]

Yea, but what would you want to be surf'en on at the airport when you are picken up chicks? A bulky brick or a sweet new MacBook?

The brick... I dont need a computer to get the chicks.


Who picks up chicks at the airport anyway?

 

[mbryson]

Yea, but what would you want to be surf'en on at the airport when you are picken up chicks? A bulky brick or a sweet new MacBook?

You're pickin' up chicks in the airport? I'm not sure that's a good thing, but whatever you want to do. There's some pretty sweet notebooks out there. The Macs are pretty nice, but there's a few Dells or Toshibas that I'd take a look at also. I think you'll get more bang for your $$$ out of the Wintel platform (at least I would). If you're a Mac user (or want to be), there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Brett]

Yea, but what would you want to be surf'en on at the airport when you are picken up chicks? A bulky brick or a sweet new MacBook?

The black Macbook Pro gets them all the time

 

[mbryson]

The black Macbook Pro gets them all the time

Just where your browser shortcuts are............