Meeting the audiance. General Land Use Chat

[cruiseroutfit]

Realizing that it will be impossible to reach every OHV user, how do you reach the most?

Groups have tried everything from print (magazine), email list, dedicated forum and even scattered forum involvement. Each with their own form of success. In the end there is always a plausible excuse "I didn't hear about it". I know that will never be eliminated, after all there are some that just don't care. But how would you reach the most?

There are some major Utah land use decisions that are in the planning stages, and I feel like as users we not going to be happy with the outcome if we don't overcome the communication and apathy disconnect and let our voices be heard. To make matters worse we are several years behind the anti-motorized groups in the planning and execution of a plan for said projects, something I would personally like to see change, even if it is just forum based and particularly here on RME as its the largest target audience of Utah 4x4 users.

So, with that...

Would you be more likely to take part in the following:

A letter writing party, aimed at aiding me in writing a meaningful comment. Realize that while these letters "count" the most in the eyes of land managers and politicians, they are also the hardest to solicit and it may require you to do an hour or more's "studying up" on the issue at hand.

Signing a petition or chain letter with my name. These are hit and miss. Some when prepared and executed correctly will have an impact, others are discounted as propaganda. In the case of chain letters, they are often counted as 1 letter of support even if 50 send in the same letter. Thats not to say they don't get noticed, just that their impact is harder to quantitatively measure.

Attending a public hearing or meeting. The land management agencies hosts these on a regular basis whenever they are working on a new travel plan or specific project. Historically they can be a great way to get a Cliff-Notes education on the issues and at the same time submit a comment. More than that they often show an overwhelming voice of support. These could be considering similar to the RMP hearing meetings many of you attended, or something more broad in scope such as the recent Usa-All capitol building rally that many RME'ers attended.

Attending an actual on the ground project such as service project. RME and many other groups throughout Utah have really shown their cards on these projects. We have proven we can come in force when needed and tackle some of the nastiest projects throughout Utah. However we still maybe get 1 in 10 users at best involved in at least a single project in a years time. And project opportunities have been fewer and farther in between in the recent years? Are we out of work to do? Straining our relationships with land managers or just not searching out the opportunities?

Multiple selections are allowed, choose any you feel you are likely to participate in. Lets assume this is in the coming year.

 

[Bear T]

Kurt, first off, I want to say thank you to you and the other major players in the land use battle, (steve J, Jeff S, Don B, and others) for all that you have done and continue to do to help raise awareness of the land use issues.

I personally feel like I have accomplished more after a hard days work on a trail clean up vs. trying to play the lobbyist game of letter right and what not. Not saying its any less important. Just thats how I feel.

You know I'm with you in what ever land use battle you decide to lead. You are one of the few that truly get it when it comes to land use.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...I personally feel like I have accomplished more after a hard days work on a trail clean up vs. trying to play the lobbyist game of letter right and what not. Not saying its any less important. Just thats how I feel...

Interesting perspective and I agree. There is something about getting sore and dirty that adds some value to a particular area. I've long said the reason RME is so dramatic (myself absolutely included) about the Snakes is because we have so many members with a vested interest in the well being and preservation of the area. I think AFC, Moab, etc are no different. Its hard to say what is more effective in the grand scheme of things. Places like Moab, 5MP, Little Moab, Kanab and AFC have been the hardest hit with service and stewardship and we have for the most part held our own. Then again the King Crawlers worked their butts off in Price and look at the situation down there. I'm not going to say its more or less important than the "politicking" but its part of the system for sure.

...You know I'm with you in what ever land use battle you decide to lead. You are one of the few that truly get it when it comes to land use.

Thanks for the support as always Bear. I'm not sure where/what I'll be working on come a week from now, I'm still staying up to speed on the Paria and GSENM issues and have been in contact with the AFC district and SL BLM district, so while I might not doing it under a blanket name I'm still dedicating as much time as I can to following some crucial items. If nothing else I would hope other clubs and organizations can benefit from this information and member comments. All groups have long struggled to stay in contact and inform their audience. I'm far from claiming I've found the catch-all solution but I think with some minor tweaks we can really move forward on many levels.

I fear we are in for more and more systematic closures, not in mass, just small one by one regional losses such as the Price Trails, Coyote Canyon and various others as 5 more RMP's are developed not to mention countless NP and Forest management plans. What would be ideal would be a paid consultant to deal with these starting the day the land managers start, however what we get is a volunteers working a day late and dollar short to get trails added to inventories and alternatives selected that best suit the users and what we feel is best for the environment.

 

[Skylinerider]

I get more satisifaction when I'm out on a clean up/trail repair. It's nice to see the results of your hard work. I know letters are important and I do that quite often as well, but when you hit send, or drop it in the mail you usually don't hear anything again. I really feel that attending the meetings, and being able to let those in authority know you and put a face to all those letters is a big deal, and shows you care more than just sending an email.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

One more thought. What about a way for users to report issues in a particular area? Could be as simple as asking for them to post a thread here in the Land Use section or a purpose built page on a website? Responding to said issues might be difficult. But take for example the Pritchett Bypass in Moab or numerous issues in AFC & 5MP that are handled in a speedy fashion. If an organizing group knew about them, they could at least try to resolve the issue?

Kind've aside from the poll, but a thought I've bounced around for years.

 

[drtsqrl]

Kurt - I voted for all four options. In a way that is a cop-out, but I think that they are all equally important. I say that because different people will choose different ways to volunteer, but very few will actually do all of them. By offering all four options, we are assured of getting the most people involved. It's a lot more work, but it's probably the only way to get the maximum number of people involved.

I also like the idea of an easy way for people to report on-the-ground issues. MFFW actually gets quite a few of these, in fact I just received one today about a problem in Bull Canyon. The problem is, if people don't know about us (or other local clubs, U4, etc), then they wouldn't have any idea of who to contact, except for maybe the land manager. Maybe we could have more trailhead signs, with info at the bottom regarding who to contact in case of a problem. However, I don't know about other areas, but BLM has been reluctant in the past to put trailhead signs on many of the trails around Moab, but maybe we could help to change that.

As always, I'll be glad to help you out whenever I can.

 

[Tacoma]

I'm a big fan of shovels on the ground... I voted for the rest too, because signing a letter is easy enough....

As far as getting the word out, I think this forum reaches a bunch of people-- maybe another website might do as well, but that website isn't up right now, and this one is. It seems to be pretty effective rounding up rescues and whatnot... the real problem remains apathy, and no website can deal with that. That's up to each and every one of us that feels passionately about these issues-- to get our friends into the fold.

I like your ideas and hope to hear more about them soon... Tempis fugit as usual.

 

[mbryson]

Kurt - I voted for all four options. In a way that is a cop-out, but I think that they are all equally important. I say that because different people will choose different ways to volunteer, but very few will actually do all of them. By offering all four options, we are assured of getting the most people involved. It's a lot more work, but it's probably the only way to get the maximum number of people involved.

I also like the idea of an easy way for people to report on-the-ground issues. MFFW actually gets quite a few of these, in fact I just received one today about a problem in Bull Canyon. The problem is, if people don't know about us (or other local clubs, U4, etc), then they wouldn't have any idea of who to contact, except for maybe the land manager. Maybe we could have more trailhead signs, with info at the bottom regarding who to contact in case of a problem. However, I don't know about other areas, but BLM has been reluctant in the past to put trailhead signs on many of the trails around Moab, but maybe we could help to change that.

As always, I'll be glad to help you out whenever I can.

From what I've seen, we should learn what the Moab clubs do well and do that elsewhere. They seem the most organized and effective to me. (not to discount other peoples efforts at all)

 

[Noahfecks]

Just a different spin on the chain letter idea. Offer the letter up in a form that can be downloaded and the sender and reciever info can be changed. This way the talking heads recieve 5000 individual letters instead of 1 letter with 5000 signatures. This also allows people from other states to reach their elected officials with the same concerns, we appear organized and mobilized with individual feel. People are lazy but if they arent willing to print out a letter and spend $0.50 on a stamp they probably wont do anything else either.

Writing letters is equally important with trail work. When doing trail work shameless promotion with the media is unfortunatly as important as the doing of the work. Officials need to see that we are getting positive public attention for our hobby. If your club is able to get some positive press on a public work project elected officials are more likely to be supportive of your cause. I know that the good people of our sport dont do good deeds for the attention but its a necessary evil to blow your own horn. Invite someone from your local paper along or get the most eloquent of your group to write a peice to submit to the local paper with pictures. Remember the squeaking wheel gets the grease and we need to squeak louder than our opposition.

We need to make our cause more inclusive for non 4x4 people. We need to team with any groups that use public lands for recreation (or business, eg.; oil/gas, mining). We need to make the mountain bikers aware that a wilderness designation would shut them out the same as us. We need to get ATV and snowmobile clubs involved. It needs to be a People for land use agenda not a 4wheelers for land use agenda.

 

[solidfrontaxle]

While I'm not too familiar with the decision making process, I'm wondering what factors influence the decision making the most.
Are trail cleanups documented by the BLM? Is all the groundwork studied and recorded? Is it even noticed? How much does that kind of work factor in?

Here is my theory, and maybe some of you in the know can set me straight:

I don't know much about the RMPs in Utah, but I have read a few RMPs and other documents for this corner of Wyoming, and it's obvious that letters make a very big impact to the guys doing the studies and making the decisions. The BLM reads and counts the letters that come in. Part of their decision making comes from content and number of letters recieved. And the more intelligently researched the better. I've read proposals and other documents produced by the greenies that are incerdibly persuasive due to the very thorough sceientific studies and data presented. Clearly the opposition outclasses us in funding to do all kinds of fantastic environmental research, but we have the advantage of being able to do physical work to show a result. If we can clean up the trails, then provide evidence and support that not only is there a huge amount of people who care, but also that 4wd use had little environmental impact, letters will have very real merit.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is: The results of shovel work aren't as effective without letters. But on the flip side, letters don't have an argument unless the shovel work is done. They HAVE to be done hand in hand, and by as many people as possible. The BLM looks at impact, ane they also count the letters...

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Great thoughts guys, would love to hear from more!

 

[SAMI]

I also voted for all four options, as I’ve participated in, helped plan/carry out, projects/events and will continue to do so as long as there is land to protect.

I believe that one feels more rewarded after a long day of building a fence up AF, blocking a bypass, picking up trash, removing abandoned vehicles and so on because they get to witness the results first hand. When writing a letter, you don’t get to see what happens with it. Does it get the attention you would want it to? How many folks read it? Does the reader(s) take notes on your letter? Does your letter go right in the trash? Filed away? I have hopes that each letter is carefully looked into, but there’s always that fear that it didn’t make it to the destination, or that your message was not taken as seriously as you would’ve liked.

Hands-on, physical, tangible service is great. I love how Wyatt put it, that the letters need to show the results of the tangible service work that takes place. They go hand in hand.

I love to write, and don’t mind being involved in a public setting at an RMP meeting. But writing or even sit down meetings with land managers and users on a more personal, face to face level does not necessarily come easy to everyone. Whereas working a shovel or filling up a trash bag doesn’t require the use of a pen, or much historical/political history of a particular area in question.

-Jason

 

[anderson750]

There are so many different angles to take to this and I think that every one is important. I think that the single most important thing that an individual can do is get involved with a club who is involved with the fight and not just interested in getting together and running a trail. A club who is interested in working with BLM and NFS to find solutions and even sign agreements maintain and repair trails. By getting involved in a club that has good leadership and understands land use is an education in itself.

If anyone on here rides motorcycles, you probably know about the Temple Mountain Trail system in the San Rafael. This system is right next to a WSA and is always a hot button for groups like SUWA wanting to shut it down. One of the primary reasons it is still open to this day is the fact that the Sage Riders M/C has an agreement with the BLM to maintain these trails. We also have a presence every Easter weekend in the area with people handing out maps, educating users on the importance of staying on the trails, and monitoring use. This is a lot of work for all involved, but it has kept the trails open. The same can be said for other trails in the San Rafael that are under the stewardship of the CCOHVA and the Arapeen trail system on the Manti LaSal that is maintained by the SEUOHVA. This is all very similar to what you see in Moab.

The satisfaction that is derived from a service project like a trail clean-up, repair is immediate. You can see the results of your work and it is good ambassadorship for our sport. The opposition tries to paint the off-road community with a broad brush as a wild group of beer chugging rednecks who rape and pillage the earth. If you don't know what I am talking about, read the comments in the SL tribune anytime there is a story about ohv's.

When there is a comment period, letter writing is critical. IMO and individualized letter has more impact than form letter. Like Kurt said, form letters are many times looked at as 1 as opposed to fifty. They still have impact, it is just smaller. One big difference between a SUWA form letter and the off road community form letter is the number of people. They have thousands and it seems like we can only muster hundreds. They are masters of propaganda and getting people to sign on to "save the west" from the Rednecks who are set to destroy it.

As an individual, everyone also needs to be a center of influence. The percentage of people are aware of how endangered our sport is incredibly small. Take the time to educate people you meet and get them to understand that irresponsible use is killing our sport. It surprises me how many people think that something needs to be marked as closed for you not to go on it. It is the other way around, it needs to be marked open.

If they can join a club, do it. If financially they can contribute to organizations like U4WDA, USA-All & BRC, do it.

I am kind of rambling here, but this is a small bit of my 2 cent opinion.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Not rambling at all Paul, great thoughts and suggestions.

 

[Tacoma]

Those are some good thoughts... Mr. Anderson [/matrix] hehe

I LOVE the idea of "owning" trails, but we need boots on the ground for that. As it sits right now, there just aren't enough people to pony up the time/money/involvement. So to me, the big emphasis, personally, is on getting people to see the value of being a part of groups like BRC, United, USA-ALL, and U4WDA.
It's my personal opinion that after that, getting those people on a project is the relatively easy part of it. I've been encouraged by the turnout at National Public Lands Day and some of the U4 service projects up American Fork-- and I have noted that it's the clubs that make the difference, the people that care enough about their slice of the pie to get out there and make that critical difference.

I like the cut of your jib, Paul. If that's rambling, ramble on!

 

[Seth]

Understand that the benefit the action must outweigh the cost. The costs in this case would be the amount of time required to write the letter, the difficulty in submitting the letter, time researching the letter, difficulty in finding information etc.

In order to overcome the cost the benefit to the letter writer needs to be clearly defined and linked directly to the letter writer. ie "Each letter the BLM receives saves a mile of trail the you use." The benefit must be quantifiable and tangible.

Reaching people is only half the problem. The real problem is getting someone to feel personally connected to the issue enough to donate there time.

This is why suwa and others use the rubber stamp approach to letter writing. Even as effective as they are at pulling heartstrings to same the latest form of desert mold the constituents of these groups are not vested enough and lack the personal attachment to do more then push send.

I would say the the best approach is a mixed bag of approaches. The 30 people that frequent this site, pay attention to the issue and have a direct relation to the cause are happy to do the research. All they require is a personal ask. One person needs to contact this group. Second tier might be somewhat less directly effected or educated about the issue and might require the rubber stamp. Social media, forums, email etc would be the contact method. And yet another tier will be more then happy to sign your petition.

Sustainability of the campaign is the third issue you need to be aware of. Data from and about the campaign needs to be communicated back to the constituents in order to maintain interest. Again showing the action / benefit relationship.

As good as everyone feels about visiting the sites and putting boots on the ground the decisions are not made at that level. Decisions about public lands are made by bureaucrats with no relation to Utah. The trails we care about so much are just a net number of mileage to this group. Whoever makes most noise makes the most impact.

 

[scoutabout]

Seth, you're in the small group that understands the barriers that need to be overcome in this fight. Your expertise and insight is awesome.

As good as everyone feels about visiting the sites and putting boots on the ground the decisions are not made at that level. Decisions about public lands are made by bureaucrats with no relation to Utah. The trails we care about so much are just a net number of mileage to this group. Whoever makes most noise makes the most impact.

That's true for Wilderness designation and system wide policy decisions. But local FS districts and BLM field offices are granted the authority by law to make trail decisions based on need, value, and resource concerns.

It's been discussed many times, and I don't think anyone disagrees. There is a need for lobbying, but it won't save motorized recreation without users and industry providing the resources that land managers need to manage and sustain OHV recreation.

Moab, Hog Canyon in Kanab, the Sovereign Trail, parts of the Pauite Trail, Forest Lake in AF Canyon, and many other areas have been opened or kept open by user involvement in the management process.

That's where I think 95% of resources should go, and it's something every club and user can do. The user actions described in this poll should be employed by every motorized user who hopes there's a way to save motorized recreation. As Paul Anderson has noted, let's duplicate this effort within the community.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...part of groups like BRC, United, USA-ALL, and U4WDA...

Proving value is hard in said organizations is and always will be a challenging feat. We could discuss the merits in depth but it suffices to say that they are all struggling for money and manpower and even the volunteer ones are struggling to convert their human resources (man hours) into actual on the ground impact. That struggle leads to further distancing with the average user imo.

 

[Tacoma]

There is a need for lobbying, but it won't save motorized recreation without users and industry providing the resources that land managers need to manage and sustain OHV recreation.

Well put, Steve, I totally agree. Especially about industry involvement, which IMO is much less than it should be.

Moab, Hog Canyon in Kanab, the Sovereign Trail, parts of the Pauite Trail, Forest Lake in AF Canyon, and many other areas have been opened or kept open by user involvement in the management process.

That's where I think 95% of resources should go, and it's something every club and user can do. The user actions described in this poll should be employed by every motorized user who hopes there's a way to save motorized recreation. As Paul Anderson has noted, let's duplicate this effort within the community.

Agreed.

Proving value is hard in said organizations is and always will be a challenging feat. We could discuss the merits in depth but it suffices to say that they are all struggling for money and manpower and even the volunteer ones are struggling to convert their human resources (man hours) into actual on the ground impact. That struggle leads to further distancing with the average user imo.

You're right about that... I just think the relative lack of membership for any given group definitely makes things harder on those that ARE members. There's a certain critical mass that makes things easier to achieve any given task, and so far, there is no user group out there that's even close, and it's a shame.

This is a good thread, there's some effective ide'ers in here.

 

[anderson750]

Not rambling at all Paul, great thoughts and suggestions.

Thanks for the kind words, when I wrote that, I was pretty brain dead and was having a hard time putting my thoughts together. I have had the great opportunity to be educated in land use by someone who has been at this for over 25 years. He (Alan) is a frequent visitor at the local field office and is always keeping an eye on what is going on in this area. We need at least one person like this at each field office. We are currently getting a new rec planner at our field office and he has been researching her history to find out what her background is in relation to the job she will be doing here. This is involvement that you do not see out of many people.

We have had some tremendous successes over the years, and it has all been due to people being actively involved. And the common denominator is clubs. All of these people are part of clubs that are activists and laborers. Most of this is motorcycle and ATV clubs, but these principles all hold true for full size ohv clubs also.

The long term survival of this sport will be greatly influenced by what happens in Washington and people who nothing about our area. We have a small voice, but it can be heard. Be in contact with your Senators and Congressmen. For our area, Jim Matheson is our Congressman and we have a good relationship with him. If we need to talk to him about something, we can. My question is, are there other people in other areas of the state that have consistantly reached out and made contact with the others reps? If not, we need to.

In regards to dirty work on the ground, what can be done to give the clubs initiative to be ambassadors and not just a group that gets together for a trail ride. Contact a Field office, sign a managment agreement, educate, recruit members, etc. A lot of my perspective comes from motorcycles and racing, but if you are a part of the Sage Riders, it is so much more than putting on a couple of races a year. It is fighting for access, maintaining trails, group rides and yes putting on 2 races a year. But then again, to put on a race on BLM is an experience in itself. On a recruitment note: if you are a rider and would like to be part of what I just said, join our club.:greg: