Topic of Discussion Moab trails getting more challenging

Greg

Greg

I run a tight ship... wreck
Admin
Location
Grand Junction, CO
The other day on a FB group, someone was mentioning that a certain Moab trail (Kane Creek) has changed to the point that it's becoming 'dangerous' for a built JKU on 37's. They were venting that they had to take the far left line on the edge of the biggest ledge on Hamburger Hill and mentioned that it was so sketchy, it would be the last time that they'd run that trail and felt 'under built' at that point and didn't want to modify their Jeep any further.

Some people in the conversation were blaming SxS's for all the trail changes, others mentioning that everyone running 40-42" tires were creating the issue.

I'm guessing it's simply a combination of massive amounts of traffic, erosion, tire size, drivers that don't have the ability or knowledge to navigate harder obstacles, digging them out and making them worse.

Now this doesn't relate to the trails with lots of slickrock, but the ones that are more loose... I did notice that parts of Cliffhanger have become more challenging after a recent trip in the TJ on 40's. Previously I've ran it in a Flatty on 31's, a JKU on 35's and a JT on 37's.... and the JT on 37's struggled the most!

Does this bother you? Is it really an issue, or do you welcome Moab's milder trails becoming more challenging? I want to run Kane Creek, now with the TJ. :rofl:
 
jeeper

jeeper

I live my life 1 dumpster at a time
Location
So Jo, Ut
It's happening for sure. But watch ANY video of ANY type of vehicle.. they all spin their wheels and dig stuff out. It's not one group or the other.
 
Spork

Spork

Tin Foil Hat Equipped
Location
Saratoga Springs, UT
The powers that be could come in and do a day of maintenance/changes to hamburger hill to bring it back to where it was 15 years ago but they would probably have 3 groups opposed to it, 2 in favor, and SUWA wanting to close it all down to save some water skeeter that lives in Kane creek. It's easier just to ignore the problem and let it sort itself out. The last time I did Kane creek it was definitely tougher but I'm not on 37's and only have a rear locker.
 
TRD270

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
Well the few trails I’ve run I’d agree. I took my stock Cherokee up poison spider back in the day. No chance in hell now. Took my mostly stock Tacoma and Kevin’s F150 up Top of The world a number of years ago. Jeremy and I straight up got stopped in our tracks on that in the gladiators, do not pass go do not collect and views at the top. And that was before we even hit the loop!
 
N-Smooth

N-Smooth

Smooth Gang Founding Member
Location
UT
I have a hard time believing a trail like Kane’s Creek is getting dug out by super built rigs on 40’s. At least I wouldn’t ever go on that trail on purpose- it’s boring.

But I’m known for my sxs hate. They are the worst thing that’s ever happened to Moab. Fact.
 
TRD270

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
Not against hard trails being hard. Also just shifting my vehicle selection. I don’t want an over built buggy on 42s for Moab. Hard trails being hard is the fun at least for me. Just going to wheel something I don’t care about rolling or tipping into a wall. Maybe @crimsonride will PM me back someday 😂

Me, I’d rather still have to pick my line and have some challenge getting up an obstacle, rather than something point and shoot wherever. If I want to cruise a dirt road for views I’ll take the Gladiator out to the swell. Though that place is terrible no one should ever visit.
 
Stephen

Stephen

Who Dares Wins
Moderator
Location
Never Far From Nowhere
@bobn and I first started going to Moab in 1993 and from then until the early Aughts, aside from a few 4+ rated trails (on the original RR4W scale), a stockish Samurai or other short wheelbase vehicle with slightly oversized tires and a locker in the rear could go pretty much anywhere. What made a trail challenging wasn't necessarily the one or two hard obstacles but rather whether it required constant skill to drive vs long stretches of graded road between rockcrawly bits. Kane Creek, specifically, used to be one of my favorites because of the water crossings. I think the original routing of the trail until about 2000 had dozens more crossings than it does today. It was fun, scenic, and the creek added a bit of a challenge beyond just the dugway climb out at the end.

Probably around 2004 is when I feel like things started to really change. That was the rise of the buggy scene, a low point in people having respect for the trails ("Hey look, theres a rock over there! Lets go climb it!"), and the explosion of tourism to Moab. Thrown in the SxS trail maggots a few years later and that perfect storm just chewed up the non-slickrock trails to the point that for me, they were no longer enjoyable. My favorite trails used to be Hells, Golden Spike, and Moab Rim. Aside from Hell's, there is no way I'd be able to do them in my Samurai on 235's now. And while others may roll their eyes and say I just need to buck up and build/buy a buggy on 40's, I just feel like its a shame that its nearly impossible to do a lot of the trails I remember fondly in an inexpensive vehicle that you can drive to the trail and then drive home in. This is a big reason why I moved away from the rockcrawling scene towards the backcountry exploring. I enjoy a challenge and testing my mettle, but it just wasn't fun anymore.
 
Herzog

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Wyoming
I like the planning and execution along side the adventure. The rigs I built end up that way after finding something I couldn't conquer, or felt like I wasn't able to at the time... I'd then visualize what it would take to get through that trail via skill and equipment. I'd plan, modify, then go after it. Rinse and repeat. That's what was fun for me. It's evident that we all enjoy slightly different aspects of off-roading and I think that's also what makes it awesome.
 
TRD270

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
Stephen said:
@bobn and I first started going to Moab in 1993 and from then until the early Aughts, aside from a few 4+ rated trails (on the original RR4W scale), a stockish Samurai or other short wheelbase vehicle with slightly oversized tires and a locker in the rear could go pretty much anywhere. What made a trail challenging wasn't necessarily the one or two hard obstacles but rather whether it required constant skill to drive vs long stretches of graded road between rockcrawly bits. Kane Creek, specifically, used to be one of my favorites because of the water crossings. I think the original routing of the trail until about 2000 had dozens more crossings than it does today. It was fun, scenic, and the creek added a bit of a challenge beyond just the dugway climb out at the end.

Probably around 2004 is when I feel like things started to really change. That was the rise of the buggy scene, a low point in people having respect for the trails ("Hey look, theres a rock over there! Lets go climb it!"), and the explosion of tourism to Moab. Thrown in the SxS trail maggots a few years later and that perfect storm just chewed up the non-slickrock trails to the point that for me, they were no longer enjoyable. My favorite trails used to be Hells, Golden Spike, and Moab Rim. Aside from Hell's, there is no way I'd be able to do them in my Samurai on 235's now. And while others may roll their eyes and say I just need to buck up and build/buy a buggy on 40's, I just feel like its a shame that its nearly impossible to do a lot of the trails I remember fondly in an inexpensive vehicle that you can drive to the trail and then drive home in. This is a big reason why I moved away from the rockcrawling scene towards the backcountry exploring. I enjoy a challenge and testing my mettle, but it just wasn't fun anymore.
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To that point I do miss the “holy shit look, that dudes on 35s!” era. To todays credit card wheelers, sxs, jku/jlu, bronco era.
 
Cody

Cody

Random Quote Generator
Supporting Member
Location
Gastown
I remember driving up widow maker in my short armed zj in 33s and open difs, and up rock pile in my purple zj on 35s. I suspect neither of those things could happen today.

Back then 35s were big and 37s were huge. Now every rig is on 40s. I suspect bigger tires dig bigger holes faster than smaller tires. Also shitty drivers with big tires are even worse, and I can only imagine how many of those turn key wranglers on 40s are driven by someone with any experience.
 
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RockChucker

RockChucker

Well-Known Member
Location
Highland
I’m not opposed to trails getting harder. But I think the biggest thing many of the belly button/duck jeeps on 37s or 40s need is not a bigger tire or one tons for moab. They need to put that money through the fuel tank and find the limit of their rig. I like watching videos of smaller built CJ/YJ/TJ era or even flat fenders walk up things modern jeeps struggle with because the nut behind the wheel knows their rig and can drive it accordingly. I’ve grown up with my rig from a small lift and bald 33s and it has evolved as my capability and daring has.
 
TRD270

TRD270

Emptying Pockets Again
Supporting Member
Location
SaSaSandy
Decided before I pull the trigger on a buggy, going to buy some swaybar disconnects and take the JL down as is and have some fun. Make a decision and go from there.

See how much trouble I can get in on 33’s and open diffs just like the good ole days.
 
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