New bag, WM Megalite or Zpacks? Fear based decision?
- Thread starter DAA
- Start date
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
I've got a new gear stiffie... 
- DAA
- DAA
Are you saying that WM has the best down that you've experienced, or Zpacks?
Even though WM and Zpacks list a different loft rating for their down I believe they are similar. I don't think they are necessarily 50 units apart. I have not seen the zpacks down outside of the sleeping bags except the cluster that are left over from construction of the bag. They were some seriously fluffy clusters.
To say definitively that Zpacks or Western Mountaineering is better I would have to compare the down side by side.
I said before that no-one actually used a 900 fill down, but I am rethinking that idea now that I have some experience with the Zpacks down. Also, it is easier to achieve a higher than 850 rating now that live plucking is more widely accepted.
Western mountaineering needs to step up their game for the ultralight line-up they carry. They were WAY ahead of their time 15 years ago. Now the rest are catching up.(considering weight and newer fabric technology). They are an amazing company and it is hard to get away from the past successes, but they need to do something.
To say definitively that Zpacks or Western Mountaineering is better I would have to compare the down side by side.
I said before that no-one actually used a 900 fill down, but I am rethinking that idea now that I have some experience with the Zpacks down. Also, it is easier to achieve a higher than 850 rating now that live plucking
is more widely accepted.Western mountaineering needs to step up their game for the ultralight line-up they carry. They were WAY ahead of their time 15 years ago. Now the rest are catching up.(considering weight and newer fabric technology). They are an amazing company and it is hard to get away from the past successes, but they need to do something.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Agreed.
I don't know if it's true or not, but I heard that 850+ duck down requires live plucking, but 850+ goose down doesn't require live plucking.
I don't know either. I haven't heard that distinction. Now I need to know.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
after doing some searching on the internet, I'm not finding anything to validate my claim above about 850+ requiring live plucking. So take it with a few large grains of salt.
Even though WM and Zpacks list a different loft rating for their down I believe they are similar. I don't think they are necessarily 50 units apart. I have not seen the zpacks down outside of the sleeping bags except the cluster that are left over from construction of the bag. They were some seriously fluffy clusters.
To say definitively that Zpacks or Western Mountaineering is better I would have to compare the down side by side.
I said before that no-one actually used a 900 fill down, but I am rethinking that idea now that I have some experience with the Zpacks down. Also, it is easier to achieve a higher than 850 rating now that live plucking
Western mountaineering needs to step up their game for the ultralight line-up they carry. They were WAY ahead of their time 15 years ago. Now the rest are catching up.(considering weight and newer fabric technology). They are an amazing company and it is hard to get away from the past successes, but they need to do something.
We test WM's material, and they typically send us 850-900+ FP material. We test it from them and the supplier that they buy through, so we end up testing double on each sample sent in; they use good stuff.
As for the live plucking, quite the opposite. A large part of our business are traceability audits where we spend huge man hours logging and tracking every stop plumage material makes including comes from; in many cases all the way down to the duck/goose farmer and how many times they turn the eggs each day to ensure that no live plucking has taken place.
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sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Sami, in your experience, what's the difference between duck down and goose down? Pros and cons of each?
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
Got my Zpacks bag last night. Too bad it will be months yet before I get to use it! On my scale, in the provided cuben stuff sack my extra long/wide 30* comes in at 19.5 oz. Gave it a careful once over, everything in the construction looks perfect. A lot of loft for such a light bag.
Just laid it out on the floor and climbed in. I'm glad I went both extra long and wide. Zipped up, I would not want it any less wide. And for length, I comes up about to my mustache when cinched. Since I normally put a sleeping bag over my head, unless it's too warm for that, the length will take some getting used to.
Looks to be a super high quality piece of gear. Very lightweight sleeping bag. Can't wait to actually USE it!
- DAA
Just laid it out on the floor and climbed in. I'm glad I went both extra long and wide. Zipped up, I would not want it any less wide. And for length, I comes up about to my mustache when cinched. Since I normally put a sleeping bag over my head, unless it's too warm for that, the length will take some getting used to.
Looks to be a super high quality piece of gear. Very lightweight sleeping bag. Can't wait to actually USE it!
- DAA
I'd never even heard of Zpacks until hearing about them here. I've been ogling over the site for quite some time. Interested to hear your thoughts on how it works for you.
On a side note, is there a place to buy bulk down locally? I am thinking of making my own down blanket/sleeping bag ish type thing. (Sami??)
On a side note, is there a place to buy bulk down locally? I am thinking of making my own down blanket/sleeping bag ish type thing. (Sami??)
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
Yup. It's something I knew going in and was a major stumbling block in my decision too, but finally decided I just need to try and find out.
For me, if I were to end up needing to carry and wear a balaclava, I think at that point I'd call the experiment a failure, sell my Zpacks for a loss and take on the extra 6 ounces for a WM Megalite. As far as that goes, it was horribly tempting to just buy the Mega that Moody had for sale. But, the allure of even lighter weight sucked me in and here I am now
. I always carry a beanie anyway and hopefully just wearing that is sufficient for comfort. But I must confess that after the test fit on the living room floor, I'm more concerned about drafts around my neck than ever. And like I say, for me, the balaclava is just a non-starter, I'm NOT going there. Especially since having to carry one would put me so close to the total weight of the Megalite anyway.
- DAA
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
I was surprised to see the WM prices went up recently. I paid $389 for my megalite last year. Now it's $439.
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sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
I finally made a decision on my bags, thanks to all the great info in this thread.
6' WM summerlite - 19 oz, 32*. It's a slim cut, but not as slim as a zpacks wide. It'll completely cover my head if I get chilly, plus I've got a hood if I decide to go that way. No draft collar, but a zpacks doesn't have one either, and
6' WM apache - 32 oz, 15*. Not ultralight, but still light and quite warm. Plenty long enough for me to hunker down inside if I want to be completely covered. Nice slim cut so there's less extra space to heat up, plus I can still wear a down jacket inside to lower the temp rating if needed. I love the microfiber material.
6' Marmot Coilour - 51 oz, 0*. Heavy, but I've never been cold in it. I can handle an extra lb or two when I'm camping in the winter. I'm usually car camping in the winter, but even when winter backpacking I'm never out more than one night. I hate the zipper and the size of this bag, and it's wider than I need, but it's warm and so far I haven't found anything warmer or more comfortable for the really cold nights.
For me, the pendulum has swung back the other way, and while I still value lightweight, it's not my ultimate goal (especially for sleeping). I have a tough time sleeping while camping, and anything I can do to get a good night's sleep is worth considering the extra weight.
6' WM summerlite - 19 oz, 32*. It's a slim cut, but not as slim as a zpacks wide. It'll completely cover my head if I get chilly, plus I've got a hood if I decide to go that way. No draft collar, but a zpacks doesn't have one either, and
6' WM apache - 32 oz, 15*. Not ultralight, but still light and quite warm. Plenty long enough for me to hunker down inside if I want to be completely covered. Nice slim cut so there's less extra space to heat up, plus I can still wear a down jacket inside to lower the temp rating if needed. I love the microfiber material.
6' Marmot Coilour - 51 oz, 0*. Heavy, but I've never been cold in it. I can handle an extra lb or two when I'm camping in the winter. I'm usually car camping in the winter, but even when winter backpacking I'm never out more than one night. I hate the zipper and the size of this bag, and it's wider than I need, but it's warm and so far I haven't found anything warmer or more comfortable for the really cold nights.
For me, the pendulum has swung back the other way, and while I still value lightweight, it's not my ultimate goal (especially for sleeping). I have a tough time sleeping while camping, and anything I can do to get a good night's sleep is worth considering the extra weight.
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
Knowing Murphy's Law, WM will announce some new ultralight bags next month, I just know it.