New bag, WM Megalite or Zpacks? Fear based decision?

[ozzy702]

I finally made a decision on my bags, thanks to all the great info in this thread.

6' WM summerlite - 19 oz, 32*. It's a slim cut, but not as slim as a zpacks wide. It'll completely cover my head if I get chilly, plus I've got a hood if I decide to go that way. No draft collar, but a zpacks doesn't have one either, and

6' WM apache - 32 oz, 15*. Not ultralight, but still light and quite warm. Plenty long enough for me to hunker down inside if I want to be completely covered. Nice slim cut so there's less extra space to heat up, plus I can still wear a down jacket inside to lower the temp rating if needed. I love the microfiber material.

6' Marmot Coilour - 51 oz, 0*. Heavy, but I've never been cold in it. I can handle an extra lb or two when I'm camping in the winter. I'm usually car camping in the winter, but even when winter backpacking I'm never out more than one night. I hate the zipper and the size of this bag, and it's wider than I need, but it's warm and so far I haven't found anything warmer or more comfortable for the really cold nights.

For me, the pendulum has swung back the other way, and while I still value lightweight, it's not my ultimate goal (especially for sleeping). I have a tough time sleeping while camping, and anything I can do to get a good night's sleep is worth considering the extra weight.

From what I have read the summerlite needs more down to really be a 32 degree bag. I have a good friend that owned one and ended up selling it to pickup the WM Ultralite instead. If you look at how much down the summerlite has it really makes sense why people are saying it isn't warm enough. 9oz of down for the 6ft version vs. 9.2 for the small zpacks and 10.1 for the wide. Given the zpacks is missing a hood, the summerlite is missing at least an ounce of down from the neck down.

Steve, do you own the summerlite? I ask because even given what I've read and my friend's experience, it has still been at the top of my list. Zpacks and the EE enigma are both in the running as well but I've never used a bag without a traditional hood and have never used a quilt.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Hm... that's good feedback. I have a summerlite on the way, I don't have it yet. The summerlite is way longer than a zpacks, so that disperses the down even more. There's no doubt zpacks stuffs a lot of down in their bags, and they're super warm for their rating. WM doesn't seem to overfill like zpacks does. I hear it's a custom option, but none of the WM dealers have any in stock. I think an overstuffed summerlite would be cool.

My wife has a highlighte, and it's been warm for her. She's had it down to about 28* and still been toasty. The summerlite has 1 oz more down than a highlite (which is probably due to the draft tube). On paper, it's pretty much the same bag as my megalite, only without the draft collar, and a bit narrower. It has 3 oz less down than a megalite, but I attribute that to the draft collar, and the extra width (though I may be way off here). I've been warm in my megalite down to 25*. I haven't sold my megalite yet, but once I see the summerlite I'll decide which of the two I'm keeping. For summer trips in Utah, it rarely gets below 30*. For all other trips, I'll carry the apache and have a heavier pack.

Basically, I'm counting on the slim fit to make me warm, vs the extra down in the megalite. I could be way off here. I guess it's all a giant experiment, and the more I test things, the more I learn what I like.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I have also noticed that my tent makes a huge warmth difference. Some of my tents are super warm, and some are super cold.

 

[Unimog]

I have also noticed that my tent makes a huge warmth difference. Some of my tents are super warm, and some are super cold.

Steve, Please expand on this. Do you have some single and double wall tents, or are some of them tarp tents without complete coverage from wind? I've got an old golite that breathes very well, but isn't the warmest. I'd like to find something warm and light for 4-season camping. I guess we could start a new thread if that would be appropriate.

 

[DAA]

I have also noticed that my tent makes a huge warmth difference. Some of my tents are super warm, and some are super cold.

What the tarp guys call "ventilation" and consider a good thing, to minimize condensation, I just call "letting the damn wind in". Which I do not consider a good thing...

Thinking I'll be looking for a new solo shelter next year. As of now, it would be either the SMD Skyscape X or the Zpacks Hex Solplex. I like the bathtub floor and hybrid single/double wall they both have.

I have a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 that I use when it's me and my Son. It's heavy, at about 3.5 lb's, but it's bomber wind and waterproof and stupid fast and easy to setup. I don't think I'd want to find out what kind of a snow load it could handle, so not a 4 season, but a really, really nice albeit kind of heavy 3 season.

- DAA

 

[SAMI]

Sami, in your experience, what's the difference between duck down and goose down? Pros and cons of each?

This basic question is not as easy to answer as you may think.
• Some duck down is superior quality, while some goose can be very poor quality.
• Goose down clusters are generally larger than duck clusters.
• Goose down clusters are usually from older, larger birds. Because of this goose down
tends to be more resilient and longer lasting than duck down.
• Duck down tends to have more odor problems than goose down.
• Goose down has a better image for marketing compared with duck down, despite the fact that duck can out-perform goose.

Davey, I'm wondering if instead of "live-plucking" you meant "harvesting"? Harvesting is the collection of molted down material from older birds on farms, whereas live-plucking is literally plucking plumage right off of live birds. Both will generally net large clusters, but live-plucking is frowned upon throughout the majority of the international market/industry. Even harvesting can have a bad reputation in the industry; I don't see anything wrong with harvesting.. Would be a shame to let all that high quality old bird down go to waste.

 

[ozzy702]

So... I'm looking at the WM Summerlite, Enlightened Equipment Enigma 30 degree and the Zpacks 30 degree. I'll be picking up a thermarest xtherm and plan on using it all year round since I can't afford to buy a summer pad and I think it's insulation will augment the 30 degree bags quite a bit in cooler weather. I'll still use my marmot helium for winter and cooler weather trips. I have literally been going back and forth for months on this purchase since I can't afford to make mistakes.

I've never used a quilt or hoodless sleeping bag so the Zpacks and EE offerings are a bit scary to me. I'm also curious regarding the long term durability of the Zpacks and EE quilts since they use such lightweight material. I know a WM bag will last me close to a lifetime with how little I'm able to hit the trail. Huge weight savings by going with a Zpacks and EE quilt over the WM bag and I'm sure they are quite a bit warmer too.

Thoughts? Ideas? Am I overthinking things?

 

[DAA]

That's exactly where I was when I started this thread. I finally decided that the only way I was going to find out if a quilt (and let's face it, the Zpacks bag is just a quilt with a zipper) was going to work for me was to actually try it. An expensive experiment if it doesn't work out. And I won't know for some time yet - won't be using my Zpacks bag for at least a couple more months.

I've no concerns about durability vs. WM though. Yes, it's very lightweight material, but so is the WM. Both are superbly constructed. But both, being so light weight, will require care in usage. But with care, I expect a lifetime out of the Zpacks, just as I would the WM - or my Feathered Friends bag, which I consider every bit the equal of WM in quality.

- DAA

 

[ozzy702]

My biggest fear with a quilt is that I'm a pretty active sleeper. I have a hard time falling and staying asleep and toss and turn quite a bit. I'm naturally a side sleeper too if that makes any difference. So many options, so little money. Ha!

 

[sixstringsteve]

the way the zpacks tightens up against your neck is really cool for thrashers. When you roll, it rolls with you (assuming you've zipped it up). My biggest concern is keeping my head warm. I imagine it wouldn't be a problem in the summer months, but in the shoulder seasons I imagine a few cold nights.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Steve, do you own the summerlite? I ask because even given what I've read and my friend's experience, it has still been at the top of my list.

Update: the vendor I ordered my summerlite from didn't have the inventory he thought he had, so we canceled the order. I think a summerlite with 1-2 oz overfill would be a cool bag. I just need to find a vendor who can order it with overfill and get it in in my size.

So for now I have:

WM Megalite 30*
WM apache 15*
Marmot Couloir 0*

 

[ozzy702]

Update: the vendor I ordered my summerlite from didn't have the inventory he thought he had, so we canceled the order. I think a summerlite with 1-2 oz overfill would be a cool bag. I just need to find a vendor who can order it with overfill and get it in in my size.

So for now I have:

WM Megalite 30*
WM apache 15*
Marmot Couloir 0*

Do you have money to burn? If you already own a megalite why were you looking at the summerlite? Just the weight savings?

I finally pulled the trigger on a bag. 30 degree wide, long, z-packs. I figure between that and the Marmot bag I'm set for most situations I'll be in. I debated on the 20 degree but I've been hot in the Kelty Cosmic down 20 bag plenty of times in mild weather and the light weight and super compact nature of the 20 degree lured me away. I figure I can always just layer up a bit if it's cold out since I always pack a fleece or down jacket.

Really hoping I like it since it was WAY more coin than I should be spending right now. I've done a bunch of side work lately that has funded it so the wife won't know. She would literally castrate me if she knew how much money I've spent on outdoors gear over the past two years.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Doesn't everyone just have piles of money to burn?

I work two jobs, so that helps my hobbie budget. I prefer the summerlite over the megalite because it's a lot slimmer and lighter. My megalite is a lot wider than I need. Plus my megalite is 5'6", which is just fine for summer, but I'd love a 6' summerlite for chilly nights where I can climb down inside. The summerlite is 4 oz lighter, and it's cheaper, so it's a win-win. If I can find a dealer who can order a summerlite with 1-2 oz overfill, I'll definitely be going that route.

Congrats on the zpacks, let us know how you like it.

 

[DAA]

I finally pulled the trigger on a bag. 30 degree wide, long, z-packs..

Congrats on getting to this point - may it bring you peace . And I hope we both lover our Zpacks quilt-bags.

If I can find a dealer who can order a summerlite with 1-2 oz overfill, I'll definitely be going that route.

If Hermit's Hut can't hook you up with the overfill nobody can.

- DAA

 

[sixstringsteve]

Cool, thanks Dave. Even if they can't order one overfilled for me, I know I can send it in to WM and WM can fill it up for me.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Thanks for the info Dave, those guys are quickly becoming one of my favorite outfitters. I talked to a girl on the phone, and she mentioned that they order all their WM bags with the max amount of overfill. Their website says "If you would like free overfill, just mention it at checkout." So it sounds like I have a good chance of getting the summerlite with 2 oz overfill, all at a killer price. Thanks again for the suggestion.

 

[DAA]

Cool beans.

- DAA

 

[ozzy702]

Congrats on getting to this point - may it bring you peace . And I hope we both lover our Zpacks quilt-bags. - DAA

It actually will give me peace of mind! No more debating. When it comes down to it any of the high end choices out there would/will work extremely well. I was really torn between the 20 and 30 degree but my Marmot bag is just way too close to the 20 and I find myself never using it except in the super early spring, late fall and winter so I think the 30 degree will work great. If I had to have just one bag it would be a 20 degree.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I finally reached a peaceful resolution of my sleeping bag hunt. I took my 32* WM Summerlite w/2 oz overfill down to 19* last night and stayed totally warm. My 15* apache has taken me down to 5* and kept me more than toasty. I love both of these bags. Even though I'm only 5'6", I opted for the 6' bags. I like being able to pull the bag entirely over my head, and I'm really glad that I went with the longer ones so I could do this. I don't find a big wet spot where I've been breathing, it hasn't been an issue for me. I snore less when I breathe my own moist air rather than dry air outside my bag. I also stay a lot warmer.

 

[DAA]

Congrats on success in your pursuit!

- DAA