New lift law last spring, whaddya think?
- Thread starter Maverick
- Start date
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
UDOT doesn't care jack, but UHP goes by stock GVWR, so we're screwed with the scrambler boogie. I'm with ya on the 3/4ton chevroleep scramblerado, it weighs 5100 right now, and that's without a full cage. When/if I ever find/afford a 60 for the front it'll weigh around 5500.
I'm proud of you, most folks with 8's are in denial that they weigh more than 4000 lbs.
I keep searching for the mythical mystery tag out of an 8 somewhere that gives the GVWR as 4501 or better...but I haven't found it yet
I'm proud of you, most folks with 8's are in denial that they weigh more than 4000 lbs.
I keep searching for the mythical mystery tag out of an 8 somewhere that gives the GVWR as 4501 or better...but I haven't found it yet
well I am assuming animinity cuz you asked. I anderstand you are in law somewhere. I'll go twards brents end, but talk softer. First I have 5inch all pro's and waggs on my ride. 36 swamps. 26.5 inches from frame to ground. There are ALOT of mini rides that are that high. I also have other "mods" that utah would conciter illegal. I run a buggie leaf, have half doors,removable hard top, x-over with heims, lifted the motor with spacers,modified attatchments to my frame(ie front/rear spring hangers,t-case). I have over the years realised that UHP has a tendancy to look at the rigs(both big and low) and give them the once over. I know that WVC was getting a special task force just for "altered vehicles". i found this out when my buddie got pulled over cuz his shackles were too shiney and aftermarket.
certain concepts I understand. Mudflaps, seatbelts,bumpers(kinda) but alot of the laws are goofie. i appreciate that they are trying to get more liberal about it but if we build our rides like shit, "Let us go kill ourselves on the highway". I don't see why guys who run full exo cages should get there plates revoked under " it has ZERO give in an accident" So what!! I can go on for HOURS about this. If you really feel like you want to open a can of worms go ahaid. I have had this talk with WildYoats (WVCPD) and MANY an officer over the years. I am an inteligent man who tries not to talk out of my ass. I have the old UHP inspection book if you want to discuss this more thourough.
Oh and BTW my mech.(who will remain ann.) still has not gotten a copy of the new rules and regs as of this week. WTF is up with that?
First I have 5inch all pro's and waggs on my ride. 36 swamps. 26.5 inches from frame to ground. There are ALOT of mini rides that are that high. I also have other "mods" that utah would conciter illegal. I run a buggie leaf, have half doors,removable hard top, x-over with heims, lifted the motor with spacers,modified attatchments to my frame(ie front/rear spring hangers,t-case). I have over the years realised that UHP has a tendancy to look at the rigs(both big and low) and give them the once over. I know that WVC was getting a special task force just for "altered vehicles". i found this out when my buddie got pulled over cuz his shackles were too shiney and aftermarket. certain concepts I understand. Mudflaps, seatbelts,bumpers(kinda) but alot of the laws are goofie. i appreciate that they are trying to get more liberal about it but if we build our rides like shit, "Let us go kill ourselves on the highway". I don't see why guys who run full exo cages should get there plates revoked under " it has ZERO give in an accident" So what!! I can go on for HOURS about this. If you really feel like you want to open a can of worms go ahaid. I have had this talk with WildYoats (WVCPD) and MANY an officer over the years. I am an inteligent man who tries not to talk out of my ass. I have the old UHP inspection book if you want to discuss this more thourough.
Oh and BTW my mech.(who will remain ann.) still has not gotten a copy of the new rules and regs as of this week. WTF is up with that?
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
Skyetone, what's "animinity"? For that matter, what's "Skyetone"?
No, not in law, just an engineer that was involved in writing and passing the new law, wondering what you all thought about it. You're free to talk any way you want to
I only know about the law we passed, not the inspection book...it is *supposed* to follow the law, but you know how that goes.
26.5 is cool, they round up. Buggy leafs...nothing in the law about that. Heims are a gray area, nothing in the law, but the inspection book may differ (I dunno, haven't read it) Mine has 'em, and I haven't had any crap, tho I need to buy better ones. Cool pic by the way, and sweet top. Sounds like you've built a very decent rig.
Didn't know wvc was putting together a task force...but the UHP had one planned for last EJS, and that was a direct statement from them to me and another gentleman meeting with them discussing the lift law last year. Glad that didn't happen.
Exocages on the hit list???!!!??? Sheesh! What's next? All I have to say is: Show me the law that outlaws that one.
Got no quarrel with you nor with what you may have discussed over the years...but the rules have changed a little, thanks to all the wheelers and everyone else last year, including the wildyoats guys. I'm just guessing that your rig is a lot more legal now than you think. Unlike Alan T, Zebra boy, who was legal under the new law and promptly went out and bought 38s.:
Yup, there are a lot of minis that can be higher now, yota's kinda get the short end of the stick, since they start out higher than most, but they still end at a height that can handle some meats.
Can of worms? Ya, I've got philosophical bitches too, but the lift law is no longer really one of them. It was, especially after the Vernal crap, so we did something about it. Emission laws kinda bug me...but when I brought that up last spring, you shoulda seen the people scatter. Maybe some other time.
Dunno how intelligent I am, but I also try to avoid RCD!
Later,
8er
No, not in law, just an engineer that was involved in writing and passing the new law, wondering what you all thought about it. You're free to talk any way you want to
I only know about the law we passed, not the inspection book...it is *supposed* to follow the law, but you know how that goes.
26.5 is cool, they round up. Buggy leafs...nothing in the law about that. Heims are a gray area, nothing in the law, but the inspection book may differ (I dunno, haven't read it) Mine has 'em, and I haven't had any crap, tho I need to buy better ones. Cool pic by the way, and sweet top. Sounds like you've built a very decent rig.
Didn't know wvc was putting together a task force...but the UHP had one planned for last EJS, and that was a direct statement from them to me and another gentleman meeting with them discussing the lift law last year. Glad that didn't happen.
Exocages on the hit list???!!!??? Sheesh! What's next? All I have to say is: Show me the law that outlaws that one.
Got no quarrel with you nor with what you may have discussed over the years...but the rules have changed a little, thanks to all the wheelers and everyone else last year, including the wildyoats guys. I'm just guessing that your rig is a lot more legal now than you think. Unlike Alan T, Zebra boy, who was legal under the new law and promptly went out and bought 38s.
:Yup, there are a lot of minis that can be higher now, yota's kinda get the short end of the stick, since they start out higher than most, but they still end at a height that can handle some meats.
Can of worms? Ya, I've got philosophical bitches too, but the lift law is no longer really one of them. It was, especially after the Vernal crap, so we did something about it. Emission laws kinda bug me...but when I brought that up last spring, you shoulda seen the people scatter. Maybe some other time.
Dunno how intelligent I am, but I also try to avoid RCD!
Later,
8er
First, a nuber is asking what a skyetone is?
I am a printer who's name is skye. There is a style of paper called skyetone, naturally it's now my knickname(7years later)
Animinity is when you are in a forign country and they want to prosacte you for something and you basically say that they can't because you are from another country and didn't know. My statement was twards the "you can't prosecute me"
Lets see....
I believe my 85-xcab toy truck is 3600? I'll have to look closer today. So under that its 24" lift allowed.
As far as my ride it kinda goes like this.... One UHP stated that FEDERAL law says that you cannot do say a removable hardtop because the DOT does not test your truck for crash test under the new modifications. Never got ticketed for that but have been pulled over for half doors and or no roof. One guy with a full exo got the zero give stuff. Buddie got the aftermarket shackles connot be over said length but spray painted black fixed all that. I haven't got around to reading all your links but under the first one I see ALOT of things that are crossed out.
I haven't seen or heard of people here getting grief aFAIK for rod ended steering. When I bought me pitman arm from all-pro (california) They told me that UHP got one of those guys and told them th it wasn't legal. There guy then moved to cali
I have talked to my mechanic who says as a racer he trusts my 5/8 heim more than a toy tierod. I agreed. I get the ol one-eye on inspection. Oh and my buddie rockstomper makes a toyota plexyglass windshield that will soon go into my ride. It isn't legal I think anywhere. I have been building hotrod trucks for years and now I build 4x4's for abut 4years. I always have felt hat I will do and modify however I want. Hensforth I have had many a conersation with many a people about what is or is not legal. I speek from experience and wisdom the hard way.
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- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
A lot of people don't realize that"GVWR" is not how much you rig weighs, but how much it is rated to haul including the weight of the vehicle. My work trucks GVWR is 80,000 lbs, but it only weighs 24,000 with trailer, THAT, is the GVW.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
I knew that......but didn't connect the idea to the lift law, which is BASED on GVWR. That makes sense to me now. I can see how my truck fits into the 4500-7500 category!!!
I was sure that thing didn't WEIGH 4500+ LBS.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
Yeah, It's amazing how one little letter makes a whole world of difference. The guys who drafted this bill knew exactly what they were doing. We owe them a lot!
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
I guess the best answer is that we had to draw the line somewhere. We went with SEMA's recommendations because we had a lot of national support and the law worked in other states. When we did the actual draft we stuck the axle stuff in and made sure there wasn't any language to prohibit 4-links and stuff, "stronger than stock" was the verbage used.
The GVWR also refers to the frame and all that stuff, and worked as a good argument to make enforcement easier (all you need is a tape measure).
Trust me, I'm in the same boat as you, stuck at 24" with 3/4ton axles on a scrambler, 1ton if I ever find/afford a D60.
Speaking of scramblers, have you seen the CJ-8 list?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CJ-8List/
The Rubicon Scramble will be in July this year
The GVWR also refers to the frame and all that stuff, and worked as a good argument to make enforcement easier (all you need is a tape measure).
Trust me, I'm in the same boat as you, stuck at 24" with 3/4ton axles on a scrambler, 1ton if I ever find/afford a D60.
Speaking of scramblers, have you seen the CJ-8 list?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CJ-8List/
The Rubicon Scramble will be in July this year
I think the new lift law is pretty damn good. I got pulled over in March last year for too much lift and no fender flares. The UHP gave me a fix-it ticket. I fixed the fender flares but chose to appear in court about the lift height. It just so happened that my court date was two days after the new law went into effect. My '85 Toyota Xtra cab has a GVWR of 4800, so I can be 26" from frame to ground, which is exactly what my truck is with 5" lift and 35" tires. I took a copy of the new law with me to court(the judge had no idea that the law had changed) and they let me off no prob.
I have only been pulled over one other time since, but that was because I was running my 37" SSR's without my mudflaps or flares. The UHP gave me a mudflap warning, but didn't even ask about lift height. I've found that hanging some big a$$ mudflaps off the back will tend to make them leave you alone. And I drive 50 miles each way to work and back evry day in my truck.
My thanks to those who helped with the law change!
I have only been pulled over one other time since, but that was because I was running my 37" SSR's without my mudflaps or flares. The UHP gave me a mudflap warning, but didn't even ask about lift height. I've found that hanging some big a$$ mudflaps off the back will tend to make them leave you alone. And I drive 50 miles each way to work and back evry day in my truck.
My thanks to those who helped with the law change!
Sorry I didn't chime back in earlier. Stollen from http://www.wildyoats.com/utah's_new_lift_laws.htm
"If your vehicle weigh's under 4500 lbs, then your max. height from level ground to the main part of your frame, (the long section , not the crossmember's you hoser's) is no more than 24 inch's.
If your vehicle weigh's more than 4500 lbs. but less than 7500 lbs., then this max. height is 26 inch's.
If your vehicle is more than 7500 lbs., then this max. height is 28 inch's from ground to frame. "
so I guess I am almost legal with lift. I agree that if it's done through GVWR then if I upgrade to say 1ton gear then I chould be able to get it re-certified or something. So also if its "stonger than stock" do booger weld count against me
"If your vehicle weigh's under 4500 lbs, then your max. height from level ground to the main part of your frame, (the long section , not the crossmember's you hoser's) is no more than 24 inch's.
If your vehicle weigh's more than 4500 lbs. but less than 7500 lbs., then this max. height is 26 inch's.
If your vehicle is more than 7500 lbs., then this max. height is 28 inch's from ground to frame. "
so I guess I am almost legal with lift. I agree that if it's done through GVWR then if I upgrade to say 1ton gear then I chould be able to get it re-certified or something. So also if its "stonger than stock" do booger weld count against me
I must give thanks to anyone involved in changing the lift laws. I'm kind of an isuzu geek and the old laws killed me. I built an early toy because they are much higher in stock form and the old law favored them. When the law changed I was able to finally build a capable isuzu. I have been driving my trooper with a SAS and 35" tires since May and have not been pulled over, even though I make the Utah Valley to SLC journey every day.
BTW all of my toyotas have a GVWR of 4550. Just enough for the 26" height. The no wheel spacers thing kind of sucks for the toy axle guys, but it is a small price to pay for the new law.
BTW all of my toyotas have a GVWR of 4550. Just enough for the 26" height. The no wheel spacers thing kind of sucks for the toy axle guys, but it is a small price to pay for the new law.
i have a couple of friends that went to the last U4WDA meeting and they are scared that the law might get messed with in the next session. the reason being is that the dealers of the new chevy diesel pickups are wanting to dress up their trucks with some bigger meats and such. the cheap way for them to do it is to put a body lift on and throw on some slightly bigger meats. the problem is that chevy puts a 3 inch body lift on stock to clear that monster tranny that goes behind that fire breathing diesel. so when the dealer gets the truck and wants to throw on a lift they cant touch it because they would go over the legal limit unless they went with suspension lifts. the law was squeezed in at the last minute and many organizations opposing this type of law didn't get a chance to get in their petetions and whine about the new lift law. now U4WDA is worried about the fact that the law might get reopened by the dealers with their deep pockets and raped by the opposition groups that got bitch slapped when we hurried the bill through. keep your fingers crossed gentlemen and ladies. we might be in for another chapter fo the "UTAH LIFT LAW OF DOOM".
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
Um, kind of. I expected what I said in the room to stay in the room, lest it be distorted like this.
The "problem" as perceived by the local Chevrolet dealers, is being handled without reopening the law. There is/was a misunderstanding in the intent, and measuring points will be more clearly defined. The law will not be re-opened this session. Neither myself, The Utah Auto Dlr Assoc, the UHP, nor the Rep behind law want it to be re-opened.
btw, the HD mounts aren't really that much different. The bed mounts to the frame, the frame is much taller. The cab is molded differently to give the illusion of a body lift, but the actual "spacers" are no taller than usual.
I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.
The "problem" as perceived by the local Chevrolet dealers, is being handled without reopening the law. There is/was a misunderstanding in the intent, and measuring points will be more clearly defined. The law will not be re-opened this session. Neither myself, The Utah Auto Dlr Assoc, the UHP, nor the Rep behind law want it to be re-opened.
btw, the HD mounts aren't really that much different. The bed mounts to the frame, the frame is much taller. The cab is molded differently to give the illusion of a body lift, but the actual "spacers" are no taller than usual.
I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.
goin4xn
Jeepaholic
- Location
- Eagle Mountain, UT
You can print a copy out from the web. My bro has an XJ with the Tera coil conversion in the rear. He took it in for IM and they wouldn't pass him becuase of the "modifications." I printed a copy out and took it in and pointed out the relevant paragraphs. They passed it with no problem. I'd suggest you do a web search (I used Google) for Utah Lift Law and print a copy out to keep in the vehicle.
goin4xn
Jeepaholic
- Location
- Eagle Mountain, UT
Run the spacers anyway (I plan to). Take them off for inspection. If you get pulled over I'd bet that most of the officers won't even look for them (or notice them). If they do and they give you a fix it ticket it's easier to pull them off, get the ticket signed and then put them back on.