NEW Rig????.....OK....XJ is cool and capable, butttttt

[mbryson]

When I get a new job and get back on my feet, I want to build a new pile to do some harder trails, more reliably than my XJ. I like the XJ for what it is, but sometimes I wonder if I'm asking too much of the D30 and the unibody {let's keep that out of the thread}. I have the XJ built to do what I want it to do (run Pritchett was my goal) and I've done that for the last three build types and don't think I've made a lot of ground on the last two.............I'm kind of board with it, but still like it for what it is and what it can do. It's a great rig and I might keep all my stuff and bolt it to a newer XJ chassis for DD duty..... then again, maybe not. I could use the bucks to get my Atlas or whatever for the next project.....

Here's my parameters....
I'm thinking maybe a tube frame, buggy style, but I want it street legal so there will be some kind of removable top, type body.....Probably a Jeep like everybody else. HERE's the kicker---I want A/C AND a decent stereo AND some fair/good street manners --- not asking too much, am I? There will need to be a full cage, but I want the top (soft and hard) to be able to be put on and taken off fairly easily.




Ideas.......

Anyway, I'd like to just throw that out there. CJ-7's and YJ's are easy and would fit my parameters pretty well. Available and sort of cheap. A TJ tub would be fine if I could come up with the other parts pretty cheap.

What I need help with is the suspension, frame and engine transplant stuff. Legality issues on the possible tube frame/Jeep body thing and titling/smog issues. Does anyone know the UT laws well enough? Should I start with a frame and cut off what I don't need?
This is an 'altered' vehicle, but would probably pass smog if the engine transplanted runs as clean or better as the engine that was originally installed in the vehicle, correct?
Should I find a low mileage 4.0L YJ/TJ and do the atlas thing to match my axles (is that possible? I thik it is, but I don't know for sure) instead of the GM powerplant/tranny?


small GM F/I engine
small Chev.....cheap, easy, been done lots of people been there before--I own one currently---'89 Suburban that may or may not be a good donor......
3.8 Buick......cheap, fairly easy, very torquey for size, light weight and I'm kind of a Buick dude......source '95ish Camaro---gives me OBD II .....
4.3 Chev.....semi-cheap, very torquey, somewhat light and very adaptable---shorter than the small Chev

Auto tranny......
700R4 would work for all of the above, but has anyone done anything with a 200R4? They are a little shorter, but slightly less reliable

Transfer case......
Probably the most expensive part of my powertrain, but I think I'm not compromising and doing the Atlas thing unless someone has other ideas......

Axles....D60's....
I don't care if the front is standard rotation or reverse. I want the axles and joints.........Probably running at least 37" but maybe 38.5 or greater......:shrug: ARB in the front and probably a spool in the rear........


Suspension....way up in the air. I've seen leaf suspensions work good, coil/leaf, and coil.....probably come down to cost and what I have on hand or can scrounge up for a deal.








I think that covers everything.....I don't want much and I LOVE to build stuff on the cheapest budget and work out the best deals possible while not compromising my goal. That's the fun of building anything, IMHO. It'll be kind of a hot rod that can do big league rocks.....

Edit: WE'll talk the 'ultimate' tow rig some other time, but I've got some ideas there also......

 

[bobdog]

Build what you think will be the most fun.

There was an article not to long ago in Hotrod or Car Craft about the 200r4. I just scaned over it real quick but what it said was that it was very desireable and could be built stronger than a 700. I also think they said it was the exact same length as a th350. It was sounding pretty good until you realize that the case has no removable tailshaft housing and cannot be used for 4WD.

 

[pokeyYJ]

How big do you want the vehicle to be? Are you set on CJ/YJ/TJ size? I think that you should open you options up to maybe a early Bronco, or even a Blazer.

 

[Caleb]

for as much as you are planning on doing to it I would say go the CJ7 route or early YJ...you can get one for pretty cheap thats just a rolling frame and body...then go crazy from there since you are changing everything anyways...

I like the EB idea but they are pretty expensive to just chop up...

 

[mbryson]

Originally posted by pokeyYJ
.............., or even a Blazer.

Funny you say that. I'm probably the biggest GM biggot I know (OK--'90ish and older GM is good stuff-newer FWD car and IFS trucks SUCK, IMHO) and the ONLY thing that keeps me away from a '73-75 Blazer is the vast acreage of the hood and width of the body. That's why I take a 1 ton truck and put a Jeep body on it. The BEST thing about them, is they are DEAD SIMPLE rigs......easy to find parts for, and cheap to fix. Gas mileage...........but that's not really part of the consideration of a recreational vehicle.

Oh yeah, my Blazer axles, they are under Brent Orton's Suburban. I was going there and the Blazer is just too big, IMHO. EB have that F*rd problem......(a 5.0L EB would be cool, but they tend to be a little more expensive than what I'm looking for on the buy in and can be a significant project to get a tub/body to working condition--unless you are monster garage)

I've thought about this the whole time that I've been building my XJ and even before and this is what I've evolved into. Something like your 4 cyl. YJ would be a pretty good starting point. Use the 4 cyl. for a step or a boat anchor and add all the good junk.

 

[Caleb]

Originally posted by mbryson




Something like your 4 cyl. YJ would be a pretty good starting point. Use the 4 cyl. for a step or a boat anchor and add all the good junk.

thats what mine started as (a little 4 banger)...now its almost exactly what you described...

 

[mbryson]

Originally posted by supergper



thats what mine started as (a little 4 banger)...now its almost exactly what you described...

Well now you're scaring me I don't need a garage decoration


Seriously, doing the UROC thing is cool, but probably not for me. I want to be 'competition worthy' but don't really want to compete (at least with something like this). I like rigs with cool air, capability of good tunes, and would need a seat for my 3 boys and myself. It'll be built to roll over and then clear out the engine and fire it up again to do the next obstacle.........If I build it right, I won't need a bunch of tools on the trail (onboard welder and air are kind of unmentioned requirements though) and a decent set of 1/2" sockets and a good assortment of wrenches and screwdrivers would fit in an ammo can sizeish box that could be stowed somewhere clevery in the tub.

 

[Caleb]

Originally posted by mbryson



Well now you're scaring me I don't need a garage decoration


Seriously, doing the UROC thing is cool, but probably not for me. I want to be 'competition worthy' but don't really want to compete (at least with something like this). I like rigs with cool air, capability of good tunes, and would need a seat for my 3 boys and myself. It'll be built to roll over and then clear out the engine and fire it up again to do the next obstacle.........If I build it right, I won't need a bunch of tools on the trail (onboard welder and air are kind of unmentioned requirements though) and a decent set of 1/2" sockets and a good assortment of wrenches and screwdrivers would fit in an ammo can sizeish box that could be stowed somewhere clevery in the tub.

thats why I said almost...I'm sure yours would run...I'm not doing UROC either but have the same mind set as you...I want it to be worthy enough but the comp scene is not for me...originally I was planing on competing but have since changed my mind(long time ago actually)...

 

[mbryson]

Originally posted by supergper



thats why I said almost...I'm sure yours would run...I'm not doing UROC either but have the same mind set as you...I want it to be worthy enough but the comp scene is not for me...originally I was planing on competing but have since changed my mind(long time ago actually)...

You better watch it............someone's going to organize a Caleb work party and you'll have to shell out the bucks and the time to get the thing to actually move under it's own power........that ought to scare you, huh?

 

[mbryson]

Originally posted by supergper



thats why I said almost...I'm sure yours would run...I'm not doing UROC either but have the same mind set as you...I want it to be worthy enough but the comp scene is not for me...originally I was planing on competing but have since changed my mind(long time ago actually)...

So what's the wiring like? The 4 cyl. to engine X conversion.....how bad was that? I know you've got an Atlas, but what tranny are you running? Any potential issues with street legality?

 

[Caleb]

Originally posted by mbryson



So what's the wiring like? The 4 cyl. to engine X conversion.....how bad was that? I know you've got an Atlas, but what tranny are you running? Any potential issues with street legality?

Well I gutted the whole thing and went with a painless harness and fuse block...it was super easy, took about an hour to do it all...BUT, I have yet to test it...I have a TBI 4.3L and a TH350 auto...nothing electrical there so that was super simple...I am actually doing a doubler (203-205)...the beauty of the doubler for me is that I have a RC60 up front and I would have to either run a chain drive case (late model chevy NP241 I believe would give me a driver side drop) but I didn;t want a chain driven case...so with the doubler I was able to go from a Chevy NP203 range box to a Ford NP205...now I will have 1:1, 2:1, and 4:1 and both front a rear wheel independant drive if I need it...downside is length (I'm still going to have a 20"+ drive shaft) and weight...I heard the combo alone wieghs around 250 dry without shifters and I believe it since I have a hard time moving it around the garage...my biggest issues to be street legal are I chopped my rear fenders like the "competition" cut...and I am running a fuel cell...I stretched my wheelbase 8" (which is why I cut up the rear fenders) and I have no front fenders, at all...all these issues would have been easy to avoid doing but I have no intention of running it on the street so I wasn;t too worried about it and just did it...sometimes I wish I had an open top jeep to drive around still, someday I will build me another to DD...

 

[N-Smooth]

yeah i hear you on the new rig thing. i don't even have my xj done all the way and i already want to start another project. i want a samurai, a yj would be cool... but pricy. at least my jeep is on it's on wheels now... no more jackstands! it's just that i love my xj but it is not what i was looking for in the long run. too bad i put so much damn money and time into it. well maybe when i get it done i will be satisfied... until i find a samurai that i want to buy. my drivetrain would be pretty stout for a sami frame and some tube wouldn't it?
2.5L with stock tranny and 4-1 t-case with SYE. d44 front/rear with 5.38's and spool/locker...
i think that would be cool just to swap my drivetrain onto a sami frame.. whatcha think? i figure if i get bored with the unibody i can build a comp rig.

-nate

 

[N-Smooth]

BTW gper i used to hate the fact i drove my xj on the street cause i wanted a trail only rig, but now i kinda miss it. maybe in a few years i will buy a yj and lift it a few and put some meats on it and have it be my poser/dd. i would like to have a convertible sometimes and hitting curbs and medians when you have to is much better in a jeep.

-nate

 

[Hickey]

Frame your XJ. Cut out the whole pan, and frame it, then build new floor boards.

 

[RockMonkey]

Cool! So you want an open top, trail rig, eh? Okay, CJ/YJ/TJ are obvious options. What about a Samurai? They are super cheap, and super light, could be built as gnarly as you want, and could still seat four. You could take an early YJ, or a Sammy and swap in your favorite Chevy combo, (that 3.8 Buick sounds cool to me, but I know nothing about it). I think you will need an adapter to bolt an Atlas to a th350 or 700R4. Don't know anything about sammy frames, but YJ frames seem to be fairly stout (not indestructable, but what is?). Another option would be to buy a later YJ ('91 and later) and keep the EFI 4.0, swap in a 999, and bolt on an Atlas without an adapter(hey, this sounds a lot like my rig). You can order your Atlas either right or left front output, so find the axle you want to use, then order the t-case to fit. What does a Geo Tracker weigh? You could build yerself a tube frame, stick the tracker on it, and wedge whatever drivetrain you want in it. At least it would be something different... Okay, I'm just rambling now, what about a first gen 4Runner?

 

[spencurai]

there are several gentleman on the pirate board running chevy 350 drivetrains on rockwell axles with stock zuk frames. you can't beat a zuk for size...and out of the box they are stout as hell!

 

[mbryson]

I don't know why, but Zuk's have never done anything for me. They are tough little birds and I have to give them credit, but I don't know that that will ever see the inside of my garage.

 

[Greg]

Do a YJ....

Cheap & plentiful = lower buildup cost.

4.3 or 5.7, TH350, Atlas T-Case, 60's Front & Rear, Leafs in the front and Coils & 4 Link in the rear, 38" TSL's. 104-108" of wheelbase, 4 seats and Hardtop or Soft-top, Stereo, & A/C (if you really want it).


Cut the rear Quarter Panels like Calebs, toss on a set of huge mud flaps and call it street legal. If you wanted to really keep it streetable, a set of 37" MT/R's would roll down the road pretty good.

 

[RockMonkey]

Yeah, you can't go wrong with a YJ, unless you're looking to get creative and do something that's a little less common. What advantage is there to the 4.3 over the 4.0 that comes in the 91 and later YJs? Is there a big weight difference? Power difference? It might be cheaper to get a later YJ with a good running motor (and certainly easier) than to get an earlier one and swap in a chevy motor. Here ya go:
http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/...advanced=n&start_year=1987&=&color=&cardist=6

 

[Caleb]

Originally posted by RockMonkey
Yeah, you can't go wrong with a YJ, unless you're looking to get creative and do something that's a little less common. What advantage is there to the 4.3 over the 4.0 that comes in the 91 and later YJs? Is there a big weight difference? Power difference? It might be cheaper to get a later YJ with a good running motor (and certainly easier) than to get an earlier one and swap in a chevy motor. Here ya go:
http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/...advanced=n&start_year=1987&=&color=&cardist=6

well the main advantage IMO is length (it was almost the same length as my little 2.5L) and I do believe the 4.3L is quite a bit lighter...if you do go altas then I see nothing wrong with the 4.0L but if you go with a doubler of some sort then you may want the extra length...overall any way you look at it a YJ or sometimes CJs are your cheapest easiest platforms...