Newer GM crate motor with TBI?

[H-K]

I'm looking at options for rebuilding/replacing the long block assy for a '91 350 w/TBI and swirl-port heads (pickup truck donor). GM offers a crate long-block assy that is a perfect match, but GM intended it to strictly be an OEM replacement and has absolutely no performance gain. I am playing with a few ideas of how to piece together something, but I was hoping for a mostly complete/assembled/matched solution as an option.

GM also makes a crate motor with vortec heads designed for 1996-2000 trucks and I was trying to figure out if it would be possible to use this crate with TBI if I replace the intake manifold. I called Jeg's tech support/sales and that didn't get me anywhere. He said I couldn't do it because the computer was different. I asked him what he meant and he told me that the Vortec engines have computers and the TBI does not. Well, this was incorrect, so I knew I wasn't going to get any useful help/info from this way, so I thought I'd post here and see if anybody could help me out.

There may be something elementarily wrong with what I'm trying to do, but I'm not that familiar with the newer engines, so I could be easily missing something. My thoughts are that the computer can adjust for minor differences and so as long as I can physically adapt the TBI to the motor, and as long as the key sensors on the engine jive with the ECU, is there any reason why this wouldn't work?

thanks for any help.

 

[H-K]

bump

 

[zukking01]

On the computer maybe he meant they offer the computer tweaked for the higher fuel usage like a chipped computer but they dont offer one for a TBI. I would think you could swap the intake and make it work. I am in the middle of swapping EFI on a carbed 350 so I dont know why you couldnt swap a tbi onto something eles unless there is a clearance issue. An example is on my 93 chevy 4.3 there is a balance rod in it so the TBI manifold will only work from a 93 or 94 so there sometime is crap that can happen.

 

[ALF]

There is little differance between the 87-95 TBI and the 96-2000 Vortec other than Fuel management and heads (I recently researched this extensively although I was going to do the opposite) A vortec head swap is a very common upgrade to the TBI engines and your ECM should be fine if you put it on a vortec longblock although a tune would increase output dramatically. With this being said I'm curious as to the final result your looking for. The vortec price is great but I did find a few aftermarket rebulders that are squeezing more HP's for not much more. If you can get away from IM and EFI there are some hot vortec engines meant to run on a carb for less than $2k!

 

[H-K]

There is little differance between the 87-95 TBI and the 96-2000 Vortec other than Fuel management and heads (I recently researched this extensively although I was going to do the opposite) A vortec head swap is a very common upgrade to the TBI engines and your ECM should be fine if you put it on a vortec longblock although a tune would increase output dramatically. With this being said I'm curious as to the final result your looking for. The vortec price is great but I did find a few aftermarket rebulders that are squeezing more HP's for not much more. If you can get away from IM and EFI there are some hot vortec engines meant to run on a carb for less than $2k!

Emissions are a consideration -- the Jeep will need to be registered so that I can drive it to the trails on public roads. I"m wondering if there's anything on these Vortec long blocks that would prevent me from mounting the TBI's emissions components or maybe some of the other items like the serpentine bracketry that don't bolt-up to the newer heads.

What aftermarket options did you find that you liked?

 

[ALF]

Emissions are a consideration -- the Jeep will need to be registered so that I can drive it to the trails on public roads. I"m wondering if there's anything on these Vortec long blocks that would prevent me from mounting the TBI's emissions components or maybe some of the other items like the serpentine bracketry that don't bolt-up to the newer heads.

What aftermarket options did you find that you liked?

Everything will be a dirct bolt on except for the stock TBI intake although there are many aftermarket options. I liked the price on the Bluprint engines and if you buy it through rockauto.com the price seemed very reasonable. If you want to stick with GM, who offers a great warranty, go through their performance line they do have a HO 383 for the 87-95 TBI trucks that is a direct bolt on for a very good price. As far as Vortec straight out of the box you have a great engine stock I've had my 97 GMC since new and have been impressed with the power. Vortec's are pretty limited in the aspect of build up with out dropping alot of cash. I did find two companies that offer a drop in replacement vortec ranging in the 325-425 HP range , Pheonix Machine and Bulldog but I'm not sure I beleive their numbers completly because the Vortec engine's CPFI system doesn't allow for much improvement in the way of injectors and the most I've heard being pulled using the stock injection is 400 HP. The only way to upgrade the vortec CPFI is to convert it to a vortec Marine intake that allows the use of aftermarket injectors.

 

[Tacoma]

I wonder how the stock TBI computer will handle that 9.4:1 compression. I think stock TBI trucks are like 8.5 or 8.7:1, considerably lower.

I suppose you could reflash the chip to account for that though.

If you have to go out and scrounge TBI and get the chip done, you might just be better off Pick N Pulling Vortec EFI instead.

 

[H-K]

Everything will be a dirct bolt on except for the stock TBI intake although there are many aftermarket options. I liked the price on the Bluprint engines and if you buy it through rockauto.com the price seemed very reasonable. If you want to stick with GM, who offers a great warranty, go through their performance line they do have a HO 383 for the 87-95 TBI trucks that is a direct bolt on for a very good price. As far as Vortec straight out of the box you have a great engine stock I've had my 97 GMC since new and have been impressed with the power. Vortec's are pretty limited in the aspect of build up with out dropping alot of cash. I did find two companies that offer a drop in replacement vortec ranging in the 325-425 HP range , Pheonix Machine and Bulldog but I'm not sure I beleive their numbers completly because the Vortec engine's CPFI system doesn't allow for much improvement in the way of injectors and the most I've heard being pulled using the stock injection is 400 HP. The only way to upgrade the vortec CPFI is to convert it to a vortec Marine intake that allows the use of aftermarket injectors.

good info.
I've considered the Blueprint engine offerings, but they are a bit pricey. Nice thing about those engines is that it's all set up, tested, dynoed, and a custom chip is included. I just think they could shave $500 of their prices easily to make it more reasonable.

I don't remember seeing a GM 383 offering for the TBI and I thought I had looked pretty exhaustively at GM's site, Jegs, Summit, etc. Can you tell me where I'd find it listed? This was something I hoped was out there, but didn't find much.

 

[H-K]

I wonder how the stock TBI computer will handle that 9.4:1 compression. I think stock TBI trucks are like 8.5 or 8.7:1, considerably lower.

I suppose you could reflash the chip to account for that though.

If you have to go out and scrounge TBI and get the chip done, you might just be better off Pick N Pulling Vortec EFI instead.

Yeah, I like Vortec EFI performance, but I wanted to keep it simple with TBI. Plus I already have the donor stuff. However, I'm not completely against considering bailing on my donor investment. Maybe I should bail on my donor and look for a Vortec donor...

Originally I was fine with just going with the 210 hp TBI engine, but now that I'm in there, I want to try and find an inexpensive way to get a few more horses. Not looking to go balls out on the engine because it's not needed and I'm already in over my head on this project. Simpler is better.

does anybody know if my stock chip will handle the compression difference in a Vortec longblock?

 

[H-K]

I liked the price on the Bluprint engines and if you buy it through rockauto.com the price seemed very reasonable.

Just called them and they don't sell BluePrint brand engines. Are you sure it wa Rockauto who had the good pricing on them?

thanks

 

[ALF]

Just called them and they don't sell BluePrint brand engines. Are you sure it wa Rockauto who had the good pricing on them?

thanks

Thats strange this came straight from their website

1997 GMC K1500 PICKUP SIERRA 5.7L 350cid V8 MFI (R) : Engine : Crate Engine Related Parts

Item Price Core Total
MARSHALL Part # BP3830CT {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Base 383 VORTEC; 405HP; 440 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; Pass. Side Dipstick; For more specs, please see "More Info"

$2,897.79 $0.00 $2,897.79
MARSHALL Part # BP38301CT {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Base 383 TBI Pickup/ Stock Heads; 280HP; 388lbs Torque; 4 Bolt Main block bored .040 over; SCAT cast iron crank; modified stock heads; EDELBROCK Performer TBI; For more specs, please see "More Info"

$3,084.79 $0.00 $3,084.79
MARSHALL Part # BP3830CTC {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Dressed 383 VORTEC/ Carb; 405HP; 440 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; Pass. Side Dipstick; For more specs, please see "More Info"

$4,206.79 $0.00 $4,206.79
MARSHALL Part # BP3836CTC {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Dressed 383 Alum/ Carb; 395HP; 440 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT cast crankshaft; DART Aluminum cylinder heads; EDELBROCK 750cfm carburetor; For more specs, please see "More Info"

$5,979.79 $0.00 $5,979.79
MARSHALL Part # BP3556CTC {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Dressed 355 Alum/ Forged/ Carb; 385HP; 390 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT cast crankshaft; DART Aluminum Cylinder heads; EDELBROCK 600cfm carburetor; For more specs, please see "More Info"
Base 355 Alum/ Forged; 385HP; 390 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT forged crankshaft; DART Aluminum cylinder heads; For more specs, please see "More Info"

$7,007.89 $0.00 $7,007.89
MARSHALL Part # BP3837CTC {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Dressed 383 Alum/ Forged/ Carb; 400HP; 440 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT forged crankshaft; DART Aluminum cylinder heads; EDELBROCK 750cfm carburetor; For more specs, please see "More Info"

$7,381.89 $0.00 $7,381.89
MARSHALL Part # BP3550CT {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Base 355 VORTEC; 385HP; 405 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; Pass. Side Dipstick; SCAT Cast Crankshaft; Cast Iron VORTEC Heads; For more specs, please see "More Info"
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 7 business days

$2,710.79 $0.00 $2,710.79
MARSHALL Part # BP38302CT {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Base 383 TBI Pickup/ Performance Heads; 315HP; 415lbs Torque; 4 Bolt Main block bored .040 over; SCAT cast iron crank; WORLD PRODUCTS Sportsman II cast iron heads; EDELBROCK Performer TBI; For more specs, please see "More Info"
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 7 business days

$3,739.79 $0.00 $3,739.79
MARSHALL Part # BP3555CT {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Base 355 Alum; 360HP; 380 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT cast crankshaft; DART Aluminum Cylinder heads; For more specs, please see "More Info"
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 7 business days

$4,109.79 $0.00 $4,109.79
MARSHALL Part # BP3836CT {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Base 383 Alum; 395HP; 440 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT cast crankshaft; DART Aluminum cylinder heads; For more specs, please see "More Info"
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 7 business days

$4,483.79 $0.00 $4,483.79
MARSHALL Part # BP3555CTC {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Dressed 355 Alum/ Carb; 360HP; 380 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT cast crankshaft; DART Aluminum Cylinder heads; For more specs, please see "More Info"
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 7 business days

$5,605.79 $0.00 $5,605.79
MARSHALL Part # BP3837CT {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Base 383 Alum/ Forged; 400HP; 440 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT forged crankshaft; DART Aluminum cylinder heads; For more specs, please see "More Info"
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 7 business days

$5,885.89 $0.00 $5,885.89
MARSHALL Part # BP3555CTF {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Dressed 355 Alum/ FI; 390HP; 395 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT cast crankshaft; DART Aluminum Cylinder heads; HOWELL Multi-Port Fuel Injection System; For more specs, please see "More Info"
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 7 business days

$8,288.79 $0.00 $8,288.79
MARSHALL Part # BP3836CTF {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Dressed 383 Alum/ FI; 425HP; 450 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT cast crankshaft; DART Aluminum cylinder heads; HOWELL Multi-Port fuel injection system; For more specs, please see "More Info"
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 7 business days

$8,550.79 $0.00 $8,550.79
MARSHALL Part # BP3556CTF {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Dressed 355 Alum/ Forged/ FI; 415HP; 400 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT forged crankshaft; DART Aluminum cylinder heads; HOWELL Multi-Port fuel injection system; For more specs, please see "More Info"
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 7 business days

$9,536.79 $0.00 $9,536.79
MARSHALL Part # BP3837CTF {BLUEPRINT Performance Engine}
Dressed 383 Alum/ Forged/ FI; 440HP; 460 lbs. Torque; 4 Bolt Main Block; SCAT forged crankshaft; DART Aluminum cylinder heads; HOWELL Multi-Port fuel injection system; For more specs, please see "More Info"
* Non-stock item--shipping delayed up to 7 business days

 

[H-K]

Thats strange this came straight from their website...

OK, he said they had Marshall engines that were blueprinted, but not the brand "Blueprint Engines". Are they the same thing? It looks like it. EDIT: they are the same. Thanks for looking into that -- it probably will save me a hundred or two if I decide to go that route.


Blueprint Engines:
http://www.blueprintengines.com/index.html

 

[H-K]

$$$$$$$
Well, I'll probably regret it in the morning, but I just ordered this one:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MLL-BP38302CT&autoview=sku
(opted for the 315hp instead of the 280hp unit)

RockAuto doesn't take American Express, so I had Summit match the price. Too bad because I'd rather give RockAuto my money. I've bought things from them in the past and they have saved me a lot of money.

thanks again for the help.

 

[ALF]

$$$$$$$
Well, I'll probably regret it in the morning, but I just ordered this one:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MLL-BP38302CT&autoview=sku
(opted for the 315hp instead of the 280hp unit)

RockAuto doesn't take American Express, so I had Summit match the price. Too bad because I'd rather give RockAuto my money. I've bought things from them in the past and they have saved me a lot of money.

thanks again for the help.

Very nice!! We need to see pics when it's installed

 

[H-K]

Very nice!! We need to see pics when it's installed

yeah will do. Now I just need to find some 454 injectors...

 

[Anchor_Mtn]

Let me know how this works out for you. Im looking at putting this same motor in my Tahoe.

 

[ALF]

It won't pass IM in your Tahoe!!

 

[Anchor_Mtn]

Unfamiliar with the term 'IM'.... but if youre refering to Inspections, we dont have em here in western Colorado.

 

[mbryson]

$$$$$$$
Well, I'll probably regret it in the morning, but I just ordered this one:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MLL-BP38302CT&autoview=sku
(opted for the 315hp instead of the 280hp unit)

RockAuto doesn't take American Express, so I had Summit match the price. Too bad because I'd rather give RockAuto my money. I've bought things from them in the past and they have saved me a lot of money.

thanks again for the help.

How'd this solution work out for you?

 

[H-K]

How'd this solution work out for you?

Sorry for the late reply. I've not been on in years. To answer your question, it worked out, but I had to pay a lot to get it running right and get a custom chip burned to match my config. The chip Blueprint Engines "customized" for me was way off. The 454 injectors I could only find used and couldn't get them clean enough to flow right, so I paid a shop to improvise by combining a stiffer regulator spring with 350 injectors (running higher pressure through them). It ran well for a while, but then I lost my job of 10 years the same week I picked up the Jeep and went through a lot of snowballing financial disasters resulting in foreclosure of my home that put the project off indefinitely. I walked away with the shirt on my back and my Jeep project (priorities, right?).

I'm getting to a point where I should be able to pick up the project again, but I'm currently living in an apartment and have nowhere to work on it. So, to further answer your question, I don't know ultimately how it "worked out" in any long-term sense or any real offroad sense. I probably only put about 30 miles on the new engine before it went into storage. My take on the experience is that in retrospect, I should have gone with an engine that's plentiful at the wrecking yards like something out of a 2000-era pickup or F-body. I would get the complete engine with EFI, harness, computer, etc, and not modify anything at all. That way (just like my intention with TBI), things work as GM engineered it, parts are readily available, and worst case if the engine fails I just go get another complete engine from the junkyard, pop it in and plug it in.

However, I think if I can find a mechanic that really knows TBI well, I'll take it to them and have them re-evaluate what I have and try to make it reliable. I got into TBI in the first place because I thought it would be more reliable (due to its simplicity), but honestly, it's been really problematic and unreliable. I hope a specialist will be able to save my ass and if not, I'll probably bail on TBI and get a modified TPI setup. Always loved the way those TPI plenums looked under the hood

Let me know if you have any questions. I saw a thread where it appears that you got a replacement TBI motor, but didn't have time to read up on it all (doing this from work).