Nutty Putty Cave

[olywrestle]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600142999,00.html

 

[olywrestle]

Even though Little Moab is not an area that SAR has to visit often, it sometimes turns into a garbage pit and could be next to go....so basically just a heads up to be more concientous(sp)

 

[great scott]

Why dose some one have to be responsible for every one elses actions?

 

[Utahcryogenics]

Because that is the american way. Someone else f*cks up, we fix it.

 

[TigerStripe40]

Even though Little Moab is not an area that SAR has to visit often, it sometimes turns into a garbage pit and could be next to go....so basically just a heads up to be more concientous(sp)

It's not that Nutty Putty is becoming a garbage pit, its that UTah County Search and Rescue is sick of rescueing people out of the cave.

Personally, I think that SAR should shove it. IF they don't want to be going on Rescue operations they shouldn't be doing SAR. It's not like anybody on SAR is paid. (SAR is comprised mostly of volunteers).

Nutty Putty is not a dangerous cave by any stretch of the imagination. IF you use common sense (which isn't so common any more) you can get into and out of that cave without a problem. THere are other caves in the general vicinity of Nutty Putty that are MUCH more hazardous. One of them is less than 200 meters away.

The plan is calling for a gate and restricted access. The access is going to be given to people that have 1 million dollars worth of liability insurance. So far BYU, UVSC, and (ironically enough) The Boy Scouts of America are stepping up.

The last 3 Nutty Putty rescues were stuck Boy Scouts...

So, the problem won't go away, it will be that the BSA will be footing the bill by paying higher and higher insurance premiums...

 

[Samuraiman]

It's not that Nutty Putty is becoming a garbage pit, its that UTah County Search and Rescue is sick of rescueing people out of the cave.

Personally, I think that SAR should shove it. IF they don't want to be going on Rescue operations they shouldn't be doing SAR. It's not like anybody on SAR is paid. (SAR is comprised mostly of volunteers).

Hey Now, Your telling me that if you got in a situation that you didn't expect, would you tell the search and rescue to shove it! You should be thanking the volunteer's that save people's butt. After all that is there own time, money and equipment in most cases that they are using. Having been involved with Search and Rescue in Rural area's, there are lots of guys that spend hundreds of dollars a year just on fuel, not to mention four wheelers, ropes, etc etc etc.... Show em a little respect. As far as them being sick and tired of going out there, even if the gate is controlled by someone, that doesn't mean that there will be no rescues out there, sounds like it needs to be left well enough alone and maybe there should be a few bills being sent out to some of the idiots that go out there unprepared, possibly that they shouldn't be there to begin with. Who know it will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[TigerStripe40]

Hey Now, Your telling me that if you got in a situation that you didn't expect, would you tell the search and rescue to shove it! You should be thanking the volunteer's that save people's butt. After all that is there own time, money and equipment in most cases that they are using. Having been involved with Search and Rescue in Rural area's, there are lots of guys that spend hundreds of dollars a year just on fuel, not to mention four wheelers, ropes, etc etc etc.... Show em a little respect. As far as them being sick and tired of going out there, even if the gate is controlled by someone, that doesn't mean that there will be no rescues out there, sounds like it needs to be left well enough alone and maybe there should be a few bills being sent out to some of the idiots that go out there unprepared, possibly that they shouldn't be there to begin with. Who know it will be interesting to see what happens.

I think that they should shove their ATTITUDE's.
I respect what they do.
Most of them are sick of being called out to Nutty Putty rescues...

But I totally agree that they should be billing the people that get stuck out there.

 

[Brad J]

.... THere are other caves in the general vicinity of Nutty Putty that are MUCH more hazardous. One of them is less than 200 meters away...

I have heard about a hole in the ground that is actually called "Blow Hole" close to nutty putty. I've been in Nutty Putty a dozen times but have not found the other cave. Which direction is it from Nutty Putty entrance? and is it a rapel only cave? I hope they don't close down the cave. People just need to realize how far they can go in some of those tight spots. It's probably going to end up just like Logan Cave.

Thanks, Brad J

 

[RockMonkey]

I have heard about a hole in the ground that is actually called "Blow Hole" close to nutty putty. I've been in Nutty Putty a dozen times but have not found the other cave. Which direction is it from Nutty Putty entrance? and is it a rapel only cave? I hope they don't close down the cave. People just need to realize how far they can go in some of those tight spots. It's probably going to end up just like Logan Cave.

Thanks, Brad J

Blowhole is in the same area. Join the Salt Lake, Wasatch, or Timp grottos and they would be more than happy to show you Blowhole and many other caves. Logan cave was gated to protect the bat colony that lives in the cave. The grottos have access to the gate keys for all of these caves and you can visit them when it is responsible to do so.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Reminds me of Neffs cave above SLC...

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=6070

I'm not against a "private" party controlling the access in the name of preservation and safety... BUT, why can't we have trails with gates and ZERO access to outsiders? Caves are so sacred...

 

[Houndoc]

I think that they should shove their ATTITUDE's.
I respect what they do.
Most of them are sick of being called out to Nutty Putty rescues...

But I totally agree that they should be billing the people that get stuck out there.

What attitude is that exactly? 'We are tired of stupid mistakes putting people's life at risk?' Do not forget that SAR is a dangerous hobby- they have every right to speak up and change what is becoming a repeated problem.

Too often people assume they can head out unprepared and someone will rescue them if it does not go well. SAR should stand up and say enough is enough.

 

[TigerStripe40]

Reminds me of Neffs cave above SLC...

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=6070

I'm not against a "private" party controlling the access in the name of preservation and safety... BUT, why can't we have trails with gates and ZERO access to outsiders? Caves are so sacred...

Apples and Oranges....

Caves are a non-renewable resource, and are very fragile environments.
If you want to see the difference, go to Oak City cave.
Some of them are also EXTREMELY dangerous.
Neffs cave is one of those that are extremely dangerous.
Neffs cave WILL KILL YOU if you don't know what you are doing. End of story.

A number of years ago, NEffs cave was classified as a curious nuisance by the national forest service. The Forest service wanted to SEAL THE CAVE (blast it shut). The Salt Lake Grotto offered to gate the cave and make a management plan to control access. The Forest SErvice said OK, but its on your dollar.

If you have the necessary expertise to safely negotiate Neffs Cave, anybody can ask for the key and go.

Simple difference between caves and 4x4 trails is that if you **** up on a 4x4 trail, you have a very good probability of walking out.

If you **** up in Neffs cave, you are dead.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Apples and Oranges....

Public property is public property James...

Caves are a non-renewable resource, and are very fragile environments.

Do you see trails being created by mother nature?

Simple difference between caves and 4x4 trails is that if you **** up on a 4x4 trail, you have a very good probability of walking out.

You are missing the point James...

My concern is the fact that trails get closed down (READ: ZERO ACCESS) in the name of "preservation" whereas caves are handed off to a 3rd party to delegate. No apples and oranges there...

 

[RockMonkey]

I'd love to see some of our trails handed off to a capable party to control access, rather than being closed. Wouldn't you, Kurt? How many trails have we lost because we refused to be responsble, follow the rules, and keep the trail clean? Rather than just closing the trail forever, how cool would it be to put up a gate, give U4WDA the key and say, you manage it. Manage the gate however you want, but you're responsible for the trail. I know I'd love to have a chance to get the key to Upper Proving Grounds.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I'd love to see some of our trails handed off to a capable party to control access, rather than being closed. Wouldn't you, Kurt? How many trails have we lost because we refused to be responsble, follow the rules, and keep the trail clean? Rather than just closing the trail forever, how cool would it be to put up a gate, give U4WDA the key and say, you manage it. Manage the gate however you want, but you're responsible for the trail. I know I'd love to have a chance to get the key to Upper Proving Grounds.

I would love to see the same thing, and we rightfully should, we are a far more influential (bigger in numbers) group than the cavers (which I have alot of respect for). Trails like proving grouds, Pitsburgh Lake, half-dozen trails in Big Cottonwood Canyon, Neffs Canyon, and HUNDREDS of others that have been closed...

I will raise this as an option the next time a trail does face a closure... :-\

 

[TigerStripe40]

What attitude is that exactly? 'We are tired of stupid mistakes putting people's life at risk?' Do not forget that SAR is a dangerous hobby- they have every right to speak up and change what is becoming a repeated problem.

Too often people assume they can head out unprepared and someone will rescue them if it does not go well. SAR should stand up and say enough is enough.

OK, so 3 people get stuck in Nutty Putty cave, and they are going to pour a concrete plug into it, not because the cave isn't safe, but because SAR is whining about doing 3 rescues in the last 2 years...

OK, now 3 people get lost up in the high uintahs THIS year and SAR gets called out to find them, but are they talking about closing off the mirror lake highway, and closing access to the high uintahs???
Of course not!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

OK, so 3 people get stuck in Nutty Putty cave, and they are going to pour a concrete plug into it, not because the cave isn't safe, but because SAR is whining about doing 3 rescues in the last 2 years...

I thought BYU/UVSC/BSA were gonna get the rights to it?

OK, now 3 people get lost up in the high uintahs THIS year and SAR gets called out to find them, but are they talking about closing off the mirror lake highway, and closing access to the high uintahs???
Of course not!

Apples and oranges James... Mirror Lake Hwy sees MILLIONS of vistitors, and covers hundreds of miles... NPC is a tiny hole attracting oxygen theives...

 

[TigerStripe40]

I thought BYU/UVSC/BSA were gonna get the rights to it?
Apples and oranges James... Mirror Lake Hwy sees MILLIONS of vistitors, and covers hundreds of miles... NPC is a tiny hole attracting oxygen theives...

The last I heard the BYU/UVSC/BSA balked at the insurance premium for the land use requirements, and has backed out of the deal.

Interesting enough, the oxygen thieves that were getting themselves stuck were the same oxygen thieves who were trying to lease the land... j

The whole deal is just BS....

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Interesting enough, the oxygen thieves that were getting themselves stuck were the same oxygen thieves who were trying to lease the land...

And ironically the same ones getting lost in the woods... and lighting them on fire...

Disclaimer
I have no ill feelings towards the Boy Scouts, I am an Eagle myself... My father is heavily involved in scouting, and I must admit I was a dumb oxygen theif 14 year old back in the day. When you look at the number of Scouts in the state, and the number of activites they participate in... they are actually a very safe group. But, getting them stuck in a cave does seem a little rash

 

[olywrestle]

Nutty Putty Map

I just thought people would like this....and this seemed like a good place to post it.