Nutty Putty Cave

[olywrestle]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635203217,00.html

PROVO — Spelunkers hoping to explore a popular western Utah County cave will have to crawl through a few hoops first.


Deseret Morning News graphic
The entrance to the Nutty Putty Cave on the west side of Utah Lake soon will be gated and public access restricted, the state School and Institutional Trust Lands Administration announced Wednesday.
Last week, SITLA agreed to a memorandum of understanding with the Timpanogos Grotto, allowing the local chapter of the National Speleological Society to manage the cave for the "foreseeable future."
Access to the cave will be at the discretion of the Timpanogos Grotto, and only "sufficiently prepared cavers" will be given free permits to enter.
"The permits will make sure (caving) groups are qualified," said Rob Cranney, NSS regional youth group liaison and Timpanogos Grotto trip coordinator. "It will make sure they have the right amount of people, the right gear, that they know what they're doing and that they're not going to damage the cave."
The gate is expected to be installed within the next three weeks.
"This is an attempt to try to avoid closing the cave," said Gary Bagley, SITLA resource specialist. "It's an issue of public safety and resource protection."
SITLA, which owns the land in the area of the Nutty Putty Cave, has been trying since January 2005 to find an interested party to take over management of the cave and be responsible for safety and preservation.
The quest was sparked by a pair of rescues over the Labor Day weekend in 2004, when Utah County emergency-response teams on separate rescues had to pull a Brigham Young University student and an Orem teenager from the cave.
SITLA originally solicited groups including BYU, Utah Valley State College and the Boy Scouts of America to lease the land. Under the proposed lease, the group would have been required to build a gate to control access to the property, maintain the land and carry a $1 million insurance policy.



"We could never come to an agreement with anybody," Bagley said. "I think part of that was their fearfulness to enter into a lease of that type, and they maybe had some fear of the liability associated with it."
Bagley said SITLA was still hopeful that a lease agreement could be reached until August 2005, when four people died in a narrow, underwater tunnel between two caverns on "Y" Mountain.
"It really came to a standstill after that," he said. "Most of those groups that had some interest just totally backed away."
With an estimated 5,000 people visiting the Nutty Putty Cave each year, Bagley said the area "was getting kind of crazy" and needed to be regulated.
"It was kind of haphazard because it was unrestricted access to the public," he said.
Bagley said he believes the agreement with the Timpanogos Grotto, which didn't have to get the insurance policy, will allow properly prepared, trained and equipped spelunkers to continue to access the caves while keeping out novice cavers who potentially could put themselves in danger.
"We're hoping that in the long run this will improve (caving) for those people who go in (the Nutty Putty Cave)," he said. "They'll have a better experience, definitely a safer experience."
A high percentage of people who visit the cave are not prepared, Cranney said. "I've been caving for 16 years," he said, "and I don't know how many times I've seen people in Nutty Putty and thought, 'What are they doing? Put the beer can down.' "
Bagley said response to the planned cave restrictions have been mixed. Some say they don't need a baby sitter to go caving, while others see the need for safety measures "I think over time it will work if people give it a chance," he said.
Visit www.caves.org/grotto/timpgrotto.

 

[jtucker1012]

I had heard this was going to happen it is probably for the best I have been down there a couple times & there are people that go in totally unprepared. It is a lot of fun if you take the right equipment.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I've said it before and I will say it again... I wish we (the organized 4WD advocates) would be allowed to "restrict" access to public property to only those we deem "prepared".

If a "dangerous" trail exists in most places, they shut it down in the name of public safety (Pitsburgh Lake for example)

Caving interests have several caves under their lock & key in the state...

 

[olywrestle]

So if cavers can have this right, how come the state will not grant U4WDA the same right with roads? whats the legalities behind it?

 

[scoutabout]

I think it might be more of a capabilities issue. The grottos have been doing this type of cave restriction for many years. We haven't had the resources to manage access to a road.

It's probably also just a different way of thinking. The land managers have become accustomed to letting the grottos operate in this manner, but it would be a foreign idea for a 4x4 trail.

It'd be great if we could take this approach on the trails deemed too dangerous. It'd also be great if we could buy Little Moab and the land containing Nutty Putty.

If someone is looking for a project, contact SITLA and find out what it would cost to take over the lease of the land in that area, what type of insurance would be needed, etc.

 

[ace]

And all those people who keep falling off cliffs and getting lost. We either need to level the mountains or put a fence around them. They are just not safe

 

[Crinco]

What?

And someone needs to block off those "dangerous" highways to make sure every car has air bags and seat belts too. We can't have people going around hurting themselves anymore!
Just who is it we think we are anyways??? If you want to take away PUBLIC LAND then just let the SUWA do it for you. I agree that people should be perpared, but that is a personal responsability, just like camping and skiing and boating, you need to be perpared.
Maybe I misunderstood what was being said here, so lets make sure I got this right.... you want someone to sit at the trailhead of every trail in Utah everyday and check every Vehicle and it's passengers to make sure they are properly perpared and equipt for the trail or they will be "rejected" and sent home?
edited:

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...Maybe I misunderstood what was being said here, so lets make sure I got this right.... you want someone to sit at the trailhead of every trail in Utah everyday and check every Vehicle and it's passengers to make sure they are properly perpared and equipt for the trail or they will be "rejected" and sent home?
edited:

I never said that... I said in leiu of them closing a trail in the name of "public safety" (such as my Pits. example) they should allow a user interest to control the access of it. Would that mean we tell people their rigs are not safe or prepared for the trip, possibly if it means keeping access to trails. Could something like this forseeably happen... not anytime soon. Our numbers are SOOOO weak compared to the enemies, we have to beg members to pay $10 a year to join. SUWA operates on several MILLION dollars a year. They have a bigger excess yearly budget than our compadres Usa-All operate on in a year...

 

[Crinco]

Alright, I see where you were headed. I am sorry I didn't fully understand before I jumped your case. I agree that people should know what they are getting into when they run a trail, and I agree with the Idea placed on the nutty putty cave of having a controling group watch who goes in, but I don't go into caves much and so I don't feel like anything was taken away from me. Some people will feel like they have lost a "right" to enter the cave, yet it is on private ground (?) and so they can close it if they want to.
I don't want to loose any more areas of recreation, and if it does mean tighter control of it rather than loose it all together, then yes tighter control is best.
It IS a shame about how many people will spend hundreds or thousands of dollars every year using public land for recreation (Moab, Little Sahara, ect.) yet will not spend $10 or $15 to join U4WDA to help protect our right to use the land.

 

[waynehartwig]

It IS a shame about how many people will spend hundreds or thousands of dollars every year using public land for recreation (Moab, Little Sahara, ect.) yet will not spend $10 or $15 to join U4WDA to help protect our right to use the land.

It is a shame, but I think most of it is because they don't know it's 'there', not because they are tight wads. Dunno... Just my thought on it.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...yet it is on private ground (?) and so they can close it if they want to...

Its not on private property, it is on State Trust Land, another form of public property. They have squares of land "checker-boarding" the entire state. It can be sold to raise money for schools/education in Utah, but it is public property until sold.

There are several other restricted caves on public (FS, BLM) land in Utah... Neff Canyon Cave, sits on FS property in SL County... Its a dangerous cave (one of the top 10 deepest caves in the US)... once again controlled by a user group. There is another cave NorthEast of Nutty Putty that was an old mine that broke into a natural cave. The gov. mine reclamation team granted restricted access to the same user group... its now under their lock & key.

 

[scoutabout]

It is a shame, but I think most of it is because they don't know it's 'there', not because they are tight wads. Dunno... Just my thought on it.

Maybe 75% don't know how serious the situation is, or they don't know how to get involved. The other 25% are just plain cheap, or are waiting for someone else to take care of it for them. Thanks to supporters like AllJeep.com and our other business and individual members, we're working on both groups.

 

[olywrestle]

Maybe 75% don't know how serious the situation is, or they don't know how to get involved. The other 25% are just plain cheap, or are waiting for someone else to take care of it for them. Thanks to supporters like AllJeep.com and our other business and individual members, we're working on both groups.

So a few ideas maybe to put in motion...

1. working with local retailers of ATV's (i.e. Perry Brothers, The big one in Tooele?, Plaza, etc) in advertising and promoting U4WDA. Has U4WDA gone straight to these businesses and made them aware that we are there? A huge untapped market is going to be new ATV owners.

2. Do the same thing, but with dealerships that sell 4x4's in large quantities.

Unfortunatley I do not get off work early enough to make it to any of the board meetings...or I would be there bringing up these ideas.

 

[scoutabout]

So a few ideas maybe to put in motion...

1. working with local retailers of ATV's (i.e. Perry Brothers, The big one in Tooele?, Plaza, etc) in advertising and promoting U4WDA. Has U4WDA gone straight to these businesses and made them aware that we are there? A huge untapped market is going to be new ATV owners.

2. Do the same thing, but with dealerships that sell 4x4's in large quantities.

Unfortunatley I do not get off work early enough to make it to any of the board meetings...or I would be there bringing up these ideas.

We probably wouldn't go to the ATV dealers, but UTMA should. USA-ALL is working with the ATV dealers on a membership program to help raise badly needed funds.

We've discussed getting our literature into every new 4x4 sold in Utah, and it would be a great way to spread the word. As Kurt mentioned, manpower is our limiting factor on most projects. If we had a few more hands, we'd definitely want to do this.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...We've discussed getting our literature into every new 4x4 sold in Utah, and it would be a great way to spread the word. As Kurt mentioned, manpower is our limiting factor on most projects. If we had a few more hands, we'd definitely want to do this.

The U4WDA did this in the past... and it has been proposed at least a dozen times since I have been involved, unfortunatly as Steve pointed out, we just don't have the resources to make it actually happen. "HELP WANTED, apply within"

 

[olywrestle]

What do you need to get it done?

 

[mbryson]

What do you need to get it done?

$$$$$ (for the brochure)

donated time

 

[waynehartwig]

$$$$$ (for the brochure)

donated time

I can print them... My black and white will do 11x17, but my color box will only do 8-1/2x14.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

What do you need to get it done?

Someone to head it up really... money will come rather easy if we have someone spearheading the project. The way it sits now all of our BOD members are head-deap into other projects (AF Canyon trail system/redesignation, 5MP trail marking, membership, event planning, Corner Canyon trails, Usa-All interaction, Little Moab, etc)... If you were willing to get a "game plan" in order, assign some task to BOD members & U4 members to get it done, we could make this happen.

First step would be to get on the phone with some of the dealerships and find out if they would be willing to participate. Could be as simple as a professional 8.5" x 11" brochure, or something more. Then we could discuss the implementation at an upcoming BOD meeting (May?). If you can't make the meeting, it isn't a huge deal, but you could possible find someone (another RME'er) to be there to discuss the idea and field questions, take names, etc...

We have opportunities like this all the time (parades, expo's, fairs, videos, etc)... we just don't have the manpower to followup on each of them.

 

[scoutabout]

We could really use event manpower. We are invited to countless expos, trade shows, conventions, and activities. However, we don't have enough dedicated people to attend and represent U4WDA at each event. We'd love to setup a Saturday out at the Cabela's parking lot where we could sell tickets and distribute literature. Any auto parts store on any Saturday for the same. Like Kurt said, what we really need is people who will take ownership of a project and ride it until it's completed. The board is there to help, offer support, guidance, and resources, but each board member is already swamped with other duties.

Pick a project and run. Look through this thread.

Find out what it would take for U4WDA (or some other group) to lease the land under Little Moab.

Track down the contact info for the person who owns the property on the Pittsburgh Lake trail in AF.

Organize a service project in the name of U4WDA.

We are in need of a PR and Communications officer.

We need a United Four Wheel Drive Delegate to represent U4WDA on the national level.

We are always in need of people who will make sales calls to local businesses to sell advertising in our magazine or ask for donations.

Write an article for our magazine, The Compass.

Get 10 friends to join U4WDA.

Get 10 friends to join USA-ALL.

The possibilities are endless. Even the smallest contribution can make the biggest difference.