Ok, here's a fun diag one for you Ford guys. :D V10 pickup-sometimes starts or not

[mbryson]

1999 V10. Thought that could be good to know. Just started happening the past week or so. Sometimes truck will not start, just crank away. Most of the time the truck will just fire off and be fine. No codes on the O'Reilly code scanner or no "check engine" light showing. 218k miles on this old dawg. Any ideas? Seems fuel related to me rather than spark but I have no reason to think one or the other.

I've checked the wiring harness to the fuel tank....everything looks OK but it wasn't an extremely thorough inspection.

 

[moab_cj5]

Kinda sounds like the issue my BIL was having with his Mercury Mountaineer. It was his fuel pump. His would always start eventually though. When yours just cranks and cranks, will it eventually start?

 

[gijohn40]

Marc does the fuel rail have a shrader valve on it? if it does I have a fuel pressure gauge that you can put on there and see if the pump is providing the proper amount and pressure. I will take it to work with me today and you can txt me and I will bring it by.

8oh1 sixseveneight 6968
John

 

[Chevycrew]

I would check fuel pressure too.

 

[Kevin B.]

A simple pressure check is to just crack the fuel line at the fuel filter the next time it doesn't start. If you don't get a squirt, you don't have pressure.

 

[Brad J]

Marc, My 99 V10 was doing the same thing really bad in 2010 & 2011. Usually it was when I let it sit for a few weeks in the winter time. It would crank over for a few minutes without ever firing up. If I stopped cranking then tried again then it would sputter & start up the 3rd attempt. Another time I drove it about 100 miles and it didn't want to start about 15 minutes later. I had the Willey Ford & Tunex take their turns with it. I had the following replaced Battery, Fuel Pump and Filter, Cam Position Sensor, EGR Position Sensor, Injectors Cleaned, Spark Plugs & wires, Exhaust Manifold Gaskets. I paid about $2,000 & found that it still acts this way if I don't start it weekly in the winter. It has made me nervous to drive the truck. I had Certified Automotive keep the truck for a month in Feb '11. They kept it parked in the shade with temps down to 9 degrees with test leads attached to monitor. It fired right up for them so handed it back to me. I hope you figure yours out to help me get confidence in mine again.

 

[mbryson]

I have a fuel pressure gauge but haven't found a schrader valve on the fuel rails. They could be WAY back under the cab?

my boy daily drives this pig. It gets driven quite regularly. It will not start, you'll go snag a scanner to scan it and get back and it will fire off. It's behaved this way on cold or warm start conditions. I'm hoping its a fuel pump relay or something similar?


Brad: Some posts on Ford-Trucks.com point to a fuel pump relay going bad and having similar behavior. For what they cost and how intermittent this is (unpredictability seems to point to something stupid like a relay?), I think I'm going to start with that and see how it goes?

 

[mbryson]

From an unknown reliability source on the interweb...


http://my.justanswer.com/question/guest/dbc57b4b9a5740a4b180e6aff7aa7e00

Ford Mechanic's response 27 May 2011

SuperBob

Ford dealer senior master technician

If you connect a test light to one of the two wires at the reset button under the pass. side of the dash, then cycle the key on, the test light should power up on both of the wires for about two seconds. if it does power up at this location, then the next stop for the power in that circuit is the fuel pump. the schrader valve for testing fuel pressure is on the top of the engine on the passenger side above the 4th cylinder back, on top of the fuel rail that delivers fuel to the injectors, it has a black plastic cap on it. depress the schrader while an assistant cycles the key from off to on. if you do not have pressure here and both wires at the fuel cut off switch are hot as I described then you need a pump. Yes you are correct the fuel pump is in the tank, and the fuel tank will need to be lowered to replace it.

link to wiring diagram for fuel circuit
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/bkitchener/2011-05-27_215939_fuel_pump.pdf

That PDF is fairly worthless due to size....not a good image

 

[mbryson]

OK, I screwed around will all kinds of relays and such. We'll see if that fixed it. There's a fuel pump relay in the engine compartment. There's an inertia relay/switch in the passenger footwell. If I didn't fix it (not exactly sure if I could have or not), I'm just going to jumper to the fuel pump with a wire/relay and see if that fixed it.

Experimenting on my Jeep, which just has a switch/relay to start fuel, I just sprayed 3-4 seconds of starting fluid in the engine compartment with the fuel switch off. Jeep starts and runs for 5-6 seconds and then dies. Demonstrated that to the 17 yr old and we'll see if that happens next time (if there is one) the V10 doesn't start. If it does the same thing, I've got a fuel problem. If it has no affect, then I've got a spark issue. (I can't wait to have a 20 yr old 2013-2014 car with all the electronic crap on it )

 

[mbryson]

Well, certainly fuel. I think I'm going to get a fuel pump and go that route

 

[neagtea]

I have seen that with older (tired) fuel pumps. It is like it loses suction. I had a ranger do the same thing and
Fuel pump fixed it.

 

[mombobuggy]

Is your Truck still rocking the original pump? If so I think it has earned the right to die. My 99 v10 has not had the pump changed yet and it is on my list of Preventative Maintenance items. Mostly because it seems to me it is less costly in the long run than a tow truck. I am considering cutting a hole in the bed above the fuel pump to make it easy to get to the pump in an emergency. As always just my opinion face value about what it cost.

 

[Gravy]

My pump had issues hot starting in the summer with low fuel in the tank. Easy to swap the pump on an empty tank...not so much with 30 gallons.

I'll be doing it again soon I think. The fuel guage just quit

 

[mbryson]

Not sure if the pump is original or not. I'd assume no, but it could be? 218k it could be it's fifth one or original one?

Gravy, when are you going to do yours? I'm debating between just pulling the bed off or dropping the tank down. It's likely sixes on which is easier

 

[UNSTUCK]

Marc, you need to varify voltage at the pump before doing all that hard work. Most likely it is okay, but a voltage drop for whatever reason will stop the pump.

 

[moab_cj5]

I would think dropping the tank is going to be easier if empty. Not fun either way though.

 

[skippy]

I would think dropping the tank is going to be easier if empty. Not fun either way though.

On my 2001 dodge I just pulled the bed it was super easy as long as you have a few friends willing to help you lift it off.

 

[Gravy]

Not sure if the pump is original or not. I'd assume no, but it could be? 218k it could be it's fifth one or original one?

Gravy, when are you going to do yours? I'm debating between just pulling the bed off or dropping the tank down. It's likely sixes on which is easier

Mine conked around 150k. It is the easiest tank I've ever dropped. Took me two hours flat, seriously that easy. The hardest part is disconnecting the stupid electrical connection to the pump.

check your fuel pressure on the rail, but my pump was intermittent when it quick, so it either worked or didn't.

I'm in no hurry to do it, I get 400+ miles to the tank and my wife just filled it. The sensor just shows pegged as of the last tankful.

 

[mbryson]

Marc, you need to varify voltage at the pump before doing all that hard work. Most likely it is okay, but a voltage drop for whatever reason will stop the pump.

I was going to multi-meter the harness before dropping the tank. Was seriously considering just wiring to the fuel pump as a test

 

[mbryson]

I didn't multi-meter but I did have power to two of the four leads as I dropped the tank down. Took a bit of a risk and dropped the tank to replace the fuel pump. It was the original pump at 218k. Finding a pump with a filter/screen and such proved a bit interesting. I usually like to get MotorCraft for items like this ($700--not happening) but I settled on a Delphi part. Installed the pump, slid the tank under the truck, plugged in the fuel feed line, the return line and the electrical harness and hit the key. Old dawg fired right up.

I just had to install the tank now. Filler tubes and vent hoses went pretty easy. There's a factory "heat shield" (?) or protective shield (possibly in case of driveline failure) but it's made of sturdy plastic crap. I tried to use that as a skid plate for 30 min but it didn't fit quite right. Ran over to a neighbors house that had a shortbed and realized it goes on the side of the tank. Straps worked much better after that. The rear strap proved to be a bit of a bitch. Spent way more time getting that connected than I'd like.

Old dawg runs again. Fires right up. Time will tell if that was the real issue or not?