** Potential ** Fund raising idea

[redrock_4x4]

I would like to get some input on an idea we came across that may be worthwhile for raising funds for some of the land use organizations.

First of all let me mention what it is, and please hear me out before jumping to conclusions. For years I've wanted to do something to help donate to worthwhile causes, and long story short, I've purchased the domain names treehuggerssuck.com and treehuggersuck.com

Now let me explain my intentions. This is not meant to be a hate site in anyway, and I'm sure you can all relate with me in the general saying that the radical environmentalist groups who wish to shut down our trails do suck. There are some tree huggers which are ok I guess, and then there are the bad groups who take everything to the extreme which I don't care for at all and I'm sure most of you don't either. I think we would all agree in saying they’re most commonly referred to as tree huggers or greenies amongst the 4 wheel drive community and others, so the domain name is justifiable in my opinion. After all, it’s not like I’m setting pipe bombs on trail fences or burning up car lots and such .

What we are thinking of doing is making some humorous, non-hateful (although they may be interpreted that way), stickers, shirts, hats, etc for sale online and donating a portion of the proceeds to some useful land use organizations. U4WDA comes to mind as the largest one I'm interested in but I'm very open to other suggestions if we put this into place. This is a light hearted, humorous idea, intended to help support a worthwhile cause. I know it's going to piss off some of the environmentalists, but frankly anything we do will. I see the domain name having the potential to become VERY popular. I just don't want to make us look bad for doing it, or hurt 4 wheelers in general in any way.

If we are to proceed with this, the website would be VERY well worded as to what our cause is and who we are (outdoor enthusiasts dedicated to responsible land use). It wouldn’t just be a store either, we’d have forums, links to important articles and websites, pictures of responsible land use, etc. All products/materials for sale would probably also need to have some form of “safe wording” on them, to indicate we’re not into destroying our environment, but we want to have access to our trails and be able to enjoy outdoor activities in a responsible manner.

My question is: Do you think if the website and products were appropriately handled this could turn into something worthwhile, or do you think it's counterproductive to our cause? Furthemore, do you think the land use organizations would be ashamed to take our money because of the name of the website, or would the donations be welcomed?

I would appreciate some feedback. If it’s a stupid idea, I won’t do anything with it. If you guys see potential here and think it could be pulled off in a productive manner I’m open to any suggestions and I’d really enjoy doing it.

Jason

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I personally think its potentially counterproductive, and while the U4WDA does need revenue to operate, we truly don't need it at the expense of our sports reputation. We all have our opinion about the anti-motorized crowd, though we try our best to keep it on a professional level. We sit side by side with these folks at meetings, planning sessions, etc... hostility won't get us too far.

What would be better? If we could get every 4x4 related shop in the state to join U4WDA, BRC, UFWDA & Usa-All as a business member, and if we could get every 4x4 enthusiast to join the 4 as individual members.

We are not losing the land-use battle because the opponents don't play fair, we are losing it because they play better. They have more members, they have FAR, FAR more money, and they are much more active than we can get our business's and members. SUWA has a bigger budget SURPLUS than Usa-All operates on in a year. They have a paid staff of ~20 including several lawyers, Usa-All has 1 full-time guru (my hero Mike Swenson) and a part-time attorney. Sounds alot like we need money right? We do, but we need members more.

The U4WDA has ~450 members right now, including members of our member clubs closer to 1500? Thats not even a fraction of SUWA's membership. Its all about size... all things considered the motorized community is doing pretty damn good to fight closures, etc with less than 5% of the enthusiasts joining the cause.

 

[redrock_4x4]

Thanks for your feedback Kurt, I had a feeling that's how it could go but I would still like to hear more feedback. This is targeted way outside the 4 wheel community alone as well, but I will certainly respect your opinions and if it's not a good idea I won't do anything to hurt us.

 

[scoutabout]

I don't think it would be counter-productive, and could be positive if worded in the right way.

I think it's a good idea. I was thinking of something similar when I bought http://www.savemotorizedaccess.com. Unfortunately, after wearing a "Save Motorized Access" t-shirt during EJS, linking to the URL in many rantings about land use, and mentioning it in a U4WDA article in the magazine, there have been only 18 unique visitors (most of those were probably U4WDA board members) in the last 3 months and zero donations.

I have a background in non-profit fundraising, and I have yet to find the correct formula for getting people to donate money to the cause. I honestly have begun to believe that the 4x4 community won't do anything until it affects them personally. Meaning, they won't donate or get involved until their favorite trail is closed. They won't do anything when their favorite trail is in danger, only when it is closed.

Yes, there are a handful of individuals who do understand what we're facing and they are willing to work hard to ensure OHV has a place on public lands. However, 99.5% of 4x4 users couldn't care less. It's very unfortunate and very frustrating for the 0.5% of us who are making serious sacrifices in our own lives to help the 4x4 community.

The real "state of the 4x4 community" is that we are in serious trouble. All National Forests will be revising their route designations in the next 4 years thanks to a recent decision in D.C. Public land areas around rapidly growing communities (St George for example) are scrambling to control exploding OHV use. Most of the time, their solution is to close areas rather than spend the appropriate resources to manage the areas. When the 4x4 community is not involved, we lose.

Not everyone can be 100% invested in the various public land decisions going on around the state (and around the country). It's a near full-time job to stay informed about everything that's going on. But we'd hope that everyone could become a member of U4WDA, USA-ALL, and BRC. That's $70 per year. If every 4x4 enthusiasts would spend that $70 per year, we'd increase our influence and capabilities immensely. Most people spend that much on gas for a weekend wheeling trip.

Right now, Rattlesnake and Constrictor in 5MP are in danger of being closed. There are other trails out there that we'd like to have legalized. We'd like to re-open some closed trails in American Fork Canyon. We'd like to keep some stuff in the west desert from being closed. We'd like to protect some of the areas around St George and Kanab for future OHV use. Unfortunately, it can't be done without money and manpower. Until we have both, the anti-access groups will continue to kick our asses.

If you've read this far, then you should be upset that we're losing the battle even though the law and the truth are on our side. Well, do something about it.

Donate to U4WDA.

Donate to USA-ALL.

Donate to BRC.

I'm calling out the 4x4 community for being a bunch of slack-jaws when it comes to their own sport. Ask anyone in the know about land use. They'll tell you that we're facing a very critical time in the next few years.

Prove me wrong. Donate. Get involved. Come to service projects.

OK, I'll step off the soap box now. Jason, I think you've got a good idea. Make it happen, and let's see if the 4x4 community will act or continue to sit on their hands.

By the way, for all the Steve Jackson haters out there, here's a great chance to prove me wrong. Donate, get involved, and make me a liar.

 

[redrock_4x4]

What would be better? If we could get every 4x4 related shop in the state to join U4WDA, BRC, UFWDA & Usa-All as a business member, and if we could get every 4x4 enthusiast to join the 4 as individual members.

As a side note, I devoted a fair bit of time to help try to get this going a couple years back with the "Trail Friendly Business" idea that arose after the letter or article that surfaced several years back indicating various Moab businesses were backing the SUWA which I'm sure you recall. I helped design some decals, started shopping printing prices for them, and offered to visit various business in Moab and others to try to sign them up for the program but it never got going.

It's ashame to see it never took off. I think that should be a large push for the UW4DA at this time. It would be nice for 4 wheel enthusiast's to be able to clearly see who is helping them and who is against them at the places they're spending their money.

After my experience there I grew frustrated and have constantly been looking for something I could do to help that I could oversee to ensure it got put into place.

 

[scoutabout]

Well, start by signing up your business as a business member! That would be great!

 

[scoutabout]

Here's a current list of all our sponsors:

http://www.u4wda.org/sponsor_links.html

 

[redrock_4x4]

First of all great post!

Yes, there are a handful of individuals who do understand what we're facing and they are willing to work hard to ensure OHV has a place on public lands. However, 99.5% of 4x4 users couldn't care less. It's very unfortunate and very frustrating for the 0.5% of us who are making serious sacrifices in our own lives to help the 4x4 community.

That 99.5% is exactly who I'm targeting with this idea. Those are the guys that would laugh at the edgy name of the website and gladly purchase a sticker, or a shirt, or donate or whatever the website was setup to do. They would then feel like they've done something to help without being inconvenienced in any way.

This website falls FAR outside the 4 wheel drive community, although my interests clearly lie inside of it, which is also why I think it could be good for us.

I actually got the name for the website from 2 websites I was quickly skimming through this morning. I have no clue how I ended up on them. One was a mtn biking website based in CA I think that had a topic titled "Tree Hugger's Suck" and it was about a group of "tree huggers" who were shooting crows to help protect some weird insect that the crows were eating out of a pond.

The other website was an ATV website whose trails were in danger.

This potentially could get VERY large outside of the 4wd community, but I would seek approval constantly to ensure we were on the right path.

 

[redrock_4x4]

Here's a current list of all our sponsors:

http://www.u4wda.org/sponsor_links.html

Trust me it's been on my to do list, and I don't mean to sound like I'm dodging you in any way. I FULLY support and appreciate what you've done. We've moved into our first actual building this year as of Jan and our expenses have been through the roof. Not to mention I've barely had time to eat and sleep.

With that said, things are settling down now, so if you wouldn't mind could you please send me your current rates for the various sponsorship programs?

Also, if I sign up, will you try to put another push on getting the trail friendly business decals going? I'm sure you're incredibly busy, but I'd LOVE to proudly display one on our front door.

 

[waynehartwig]

No offense, but my first thought was 'childish'. I agree with Kurt, we need to maintain a professional relationship with them. They aren't making jabs at the off roading comunity. They may not like us, or us them, but they don't have to - same with us - but we all need to be civil and respect each other, otherwise communication breaks down and more problems arrise. IMO of course...

 

[cruiseroutfit]

As a side note, I devoted a fair bit of time to help try to get this going a couple years back with the "Trail Friendly Business" idea that arose after the letter or article that surfaced several years back indicating various Moab businesses were backing the SUWA which I'm sure you recall. I helped design some decals, started shopping printing prices for them, and offered to visit various business in Moab and others to try to sign them up for the program but it never got going.

It's ashame to see it never took off. I think that should be a large push for the UW4DA at this time. It would be nice for 4 wheel enthusiast's to be able to clearly see who is helping them and who is against them at the places they're spending their money.

After my experience there I grew frustrated and have constantly been looking for something I could do to help that I could oversee to ensure it got put into place.

First I applaud your efforts, it all starts somewhere.

As far as the "Trail Freindly Businees" venture, its still on the books, along with a million other AMAZING ideas that get "dropped off" at our BOD meetings. Truth be told, it will probably sit until someone takes it as their pet project and makes it happen, unfortunately are current BOD members have far bigger pet projects that have been on the table for sometime. Unless one person steps up to the plate, it will never see fruition.

I would issue a challenge to you.... come help us get the "Trail Freindly Businees" back on track. We have a newly appointed Land Use officers that have stepped up and taken ALOT of workload off of others, so now would be a good time to get the BOD back on board.

If I got frusterated by every "idea" that didn't come to fruition due to the lackluster of others... I would be long gone from the BOD. If you want it done... come do it.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...This potentially could get VERY large outside of the 4wd community, but I would seek approval constantly to ensure we were on the right path.

You ought to email Mike Swenson @ Usa-All (he's a RME member) and invite him to check this out to. Mike honestly would be the best opinion to take on a project like this as he does more on the legal side of things than the U4WDA (we work on the proactive, education, preventive maintainance type of deals )

 

[scoutabout]

With that said, things are settling down now, so if you wouldn't mind could you please send me your current rates for the various sponsorship programs?

Our standard business membership is $150 per year or $300 (retail) in donated product (parts, gift certificates, cases of bottled water, etc).

Each business member gets 4 business card sized ads in our magazine, The Compass. One ad will appear in each issue for a full year (4 issues). Also, we list your business on our website and in our magazine as a current U4WDA sponsor.

We can take cash, check, visa, mastercard, american express, and gold teeth as appropriate payment. We can also split the payment into four payments of $37.50.

In addition, we'll gladly develop the ad for you, or you can provide the ad.

Call me anytime, 801-376-3332, and I'll get it setup for you.

 

[scoutabout]

By the way, I prefer "4-Wheel Friendly" over "Trail Friendly". "Trail Friendly" could refer to hiking or biking trails.

 

[scoutabout]

They aren't making jabs at the off roading comunity.

I believe they do make many jabs at us. They consider ALL OHV activity to be damaging to the environment. They will not concede that OHV use can be environmentally friendly.

OK, maybe they're not making jabs at us so to speak, but they certainly are liberal with their half-truths and they take any chance they get to make us look bad.

I think using a domain like savemotorizedaccess.com (or something similarly positive) might be better than greeniessuck.com (or something negative). But reaching that 99.5% is about sensationalism. All the positive outreach activities we have tried have been unaffective, so maybe it's time to get nasty? I'm not really sure right now.

I agree with Kurt. See what Swenson says.

 

[SAMI]

i like the motive behind this idea... i also like the idea of the donations off the products... i might go against other's opinions, but i think if it were handled with extreme caution, and it was very clear that we work with anyone interested in keeping lands open, and in finding a happy medium... that's the important part, is allowing the public to see what it's all about... not a big bash on the subaru drivin', berkinstock wearin tree huggers that we all know and love...

i agree with Kurt and Steve about pushing the memberships and more importantly the business memberships to those that we know. i brought it up to the CEO of ClearBra yesterday(my boos ) and he was all for it in a second of explanation. i've got more businesses i'm working with as well. as far as i'm concerned, anyone who does anything to enjoy the outdoors should be involved. it's larger than just our community. and the businesses love the advertisment they get. it's a win win.

-Jason

 

[Houndoc]

A couple of thoughts come to mind:

First, product sales can earn more money than asking for donations....people like to buy stuff, but many hate to give away their cash. I know I have purchased more Ducks Unlimited products than I have given them donations. And for good or bad, "edgy" and "offensive" often sell.

Second, I think it is very difficult to do "anyone sucks" with tactful and "carefully worded". They just don't seem to go together. I would think that shirt designs that show 1) wheeling is fun and 2) we can use motorized access and still care about the enviroment could be done in a fun enough way to generate sales of shirts, bumperstickers etc. However, I am not creative enough to suggest designs.

Personally I do not think I would go for the initial idea, but have nothing against "mild" attacks on the extremists.

 

[dbdproductions]

Good idea, but maybe take it in a different direction.

I would imagine people would buy the shirts, but it would probably be the crowd that is causing many of the problems in the first place. (Not donating, but still complaining about the problem, or those that are completely ignorant about what our sport really is about.) However, I probably would buy one, even though I can see how it could be counter productive.

We all need to work together, because really public land is about everybody, and wearing shirts that says the "other" guy on the trail seems to be in poor taste.

However, I do like the idea of selling something that can make money for the organizations that fight the good fight. ( USA-ALL , BRC , and UT4WD ) In fact if I can help please let me know. I work at a sign shop and could probably get some good prices on stickers, shirts, etc.

I ran across the Enthusiast video series that promotes education on the trail, and I think if they did some merchandising it would be popular. And I imagine that if people wanted to get At Your Leisure merchandise that we could work out a way to donate some cash to the forces of good.

It really does come down to the memberships though. Selling stuff to people is good, but it doesn't usually teach them anything. I like the sign up sheet I got from BRC that allows me to put in my friends names to recieve info from them. If each person could get an additional member to join these oganizations then there would be twice as many of us, and so on and so on.

 

[utahmike]

I think we need to know the answer to the question" what is your short term and long term goals related to your fundraising effort(s)"?

with that in mind we can decide what is the best course of action to achieve those goals, other considerations and acceptable level of collateral damage. Yes there is such a thing.

Good thread!