- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
I always replace a master and slave cyl together... and bench bleeding is a good idea.
Isuzu Project: Stratotrooper
- Thread starter Stephen
- Start date
- Location
- West Jordan
Good job, strange man. It's always nice to hear an engine fire for the first time after you've had your grubbies deep inside it...
On the clutch issue, I agree with @Greg that it just needs to be bled more/better. Pressure always helps. If the hose was left open for a while you could have introduced air into the master which can be a mother to get out - it may be worth removing the master and doing a bench bleed as mentioned.
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Phase I:
The issue with the clutch pedal having no pressure was resolved by using a pressure bleeder. Once that was hooked up, pedal popped right up and held no problem. Reinforcing the idea that sometimes you just need the right tool for the job!
Now that I had a functional clutch, it was time to get the Trooper on the road again for the first time since August! I needed to get 30 minutes of varied RPM's in with it full of the break in oil, so I pulled it out for some loops around the neighborhood. I didn't romp on it, but it ran great. Good power from low to medium RPM's and it felt butter smooth.
About 15 minutes into the run, I started to hear chattering. I got it back to the house, popped the hood, and yup! Bad valve train chattering on the driver side bank. I figured that this was debris from the rebuild caught in an oil channel. So I drained the break in oil, which was dirty and filled it up with some full synthetic. Started it back up… no change. Still chattering like crazy. I let it run for a bit, hoping that it'd clear up, but it didn't.
I stepped back for a bit (mainly because, ya know, I didn't want to nuke the car from space quite yet). After about an hour I pulled out the old mechanics stethoscope to try and get a better idea of what the noise was and where it was coming from. When I fired up the car; no chattering. Gone. I let it run for about half an hour and it was smooth. So, oil must have done what oil is supposed to do; get into everything. The lifters must have gotten properly lubricated and the debris has cycled out. I've run it about an hour now and the chatter has not returned. I'll run it about 100 miles, then change the oil again. But thus far I'm cautiously optimistic that everything is functioning normally!
The issue with the clutch pedal having no pressure was resolved by using a pressure bleeder. Once that was hooked up, pedal popped right up and held no problem. Reinforcing the idea that sometimes you just need the right tool for the job!
Now that I had a functional clutch, it was time to get the Trooper on the road again for the first time since August! I needed to get 30 minutes of varied RPM's in with it full of the break in oil, so I pulled it out for some loops around the neighborhood. I didn't romp on it, but it ran great. Good power from low to medium RPM's and it felt butter smooth.
About 15 minutes into the run, I started to hear chattering. I got it back to the house, popped the hood, and yup! Bad valve train chattering on the driver side bank. I figured that this was debris from the rebuild caught in an oil channel. So I drained the break in oil, which was dirty and filled it up with some full synthetic. Started it back up… no change. Still chattering like crazy. I let it run for a bit, hoping that it'd clear up, but it didn't.
I stepped back for a bit (mainly because, ya know, I didn't want to nuke the car from space quite yet). After about an hour I pulled out the old mechanics stethoscope to try and get a better idea of what the noise was and where it was coming from. When I fired up the car; no chattering. Gone. I let it run for about half an hour and it was smooth. So, oil must have done what oil is supposed to do; get into everything. The lifters must have gotten properly lubricated and the debris has cycled out. I've run it about an hour now and the chatter has not returned. I'll run it about 100 miles, then change the oil again. But thus far I'm cautiously optimistic that everything is functioning normally!
- Location
- West Jordan
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Phase I:
Continuing the theme of "nothing goes quite as planned", I was driving it around this afternoon and started to hear an odd rotational noise. Not from the engine; but more like a driveshaft maybe. Pulled it back into the driveway, crawled underneath to take a look and what do I see? Leaking coolant. So while I was concerned about the rotational noise, suddenly that became a priority. Looks like its leaking from one of the hoses on the back of the engine. Of course. So I'll have to take the plenum off to get to it and check the connections, but I'm willing to bet money it's the one hose I chose to use the original clamp rather than replacing it. Annoying and time consuming, but not the end of the world.
I went back to check on the rotational noise, and it's weird. The output shaft from the back of the T-Case (which is part of the transmission) has a fair amount of play in it; but not so much that I'd generally be concerned. Also, I didn't do anything with the transmission and I've never noticed an issue before. I put it up on jack stands and had my dad run it through the gears. No noticeable noise in 1st, some in second, and progressively more the higher the gears. Almost a grinding noise, but not quite. Now, I did pressure wash the transmission while I had it out, so some water could have gotten in. I was already planning on replacing the oil, just hadn't gotten to it yet. So I'll do that first, but I just can't see how the slight amount of water that could have gotten in would cause this? I was pretty careful when I washed it to avoid the areas where the breathers and the shifters went in, but I guess some likely still got in. Anyone have any other thoughts? Again, no issues before I pulled the engine at the end of August, nothing changed between then and now. Just odd.
Continuing the theme of "nothing goes quite as planned", I was driving it around this afternoon and started to hear an odd rotational noise. Not from the engine; but more like a driveshaft maybe. Pulled it back into the driveway, crawled underneath to take a look and what do I see? Leaking coolant. So while I was concerned about the rotational noise, suddenly that became a priority. Looks like its leaking from one of the hoses on the back of the engine. Of course. So I'll have to take the plenum off to get to it and check the connections, but I'm willing to bet money it's the one hose I chose to use the original clamp rather than replacing it. Annoying and time consuming, but not the end of the world.
I went back to check on the rotational noise, and it's weird. The output shaft from the back of the T-Case (which is part of the transmission) has a fair amount of play in it; but not so much that I'd generally be concerned. Also, I didn't do anything with the transmission and I've never noticed an issue before. I put it up on jack stands and had my dad run it through the gears. No noticeable noise in 1st, some in second, and progressively more the higher the gears. Almost a grinding noise, but not quite. Now, I did pressure wash the transmission while I had it out, so some water could have gotten in. I was already planning on replacing the oil, just hadn't gotten to it yet. So I'll do that first, but I just can't see how the slight amount of water that could have gotten in would cause this? I was pretty careful when I washed it to avoid the areas where the breathers and the shifters went in, but I guess some likely still got in. Anyone have any other thoughts? Again, no issues before I pulled the engine at the end of August, nothing changed between then and now. Just odd.
- Location
- West Jordan
I would never think that enough water could get in through a breather hose during a pressure wash (even a very vigorous one) to cause an issue.
Does it sound like a gear noise from inside the case, or maybe an output bearing, u-joint, or something else that's mostly external?
There's oil in the transmission and transfer case, right?
I'm guessing there is no carrier bearing on the rear driveshaft that could be noisy?
Does it have front locking hubs that were left locked maybe?
I have a vehicle that makes funny noises if it's been parked in wet weather or after a carwash - best I can tell is that the brake rotors (or likely the rear drums) build up enough surface rust while sitting that the brakes drag a bit, and it takes a few blocks of driving to smooth them out again. This will even happen in as few as 10-12 hours of being parked.
Does it sound like a gear noise from inside the case, or maybe an output bearing, u-joint, or something else that's mostly external?
There's oil in the transmission and transfer case, right?
I'm guessing there is no carrier bearing on the rear driveshaft that could be noisy?
Does it have front locking hubs that were left locked maybe?
I have a vehicle that makes funny noises if it's been parked in wet weather or after a carwash - best I can tell is that the brake rotors (or likely the rear drums) build up enough surface rust while sitting that the brakes drag a bit, and it takes a few blocks of driving to smooth them out again. This will even happen in as few as 10-12 hours of being parked.
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Nor do I, but that's the first thing to check.
Its definitely an internal sound. More from the t-case than the tranny so possibly an output bearing. U-joints are all solid, that was the first thing I checked.
Unless it all evaporated while the transmission was out, yes there should be plenty!
No.
It does, but they are free and the front shaft is not spinning when the noise happens.
The rear wheels are making some swishing noises, which is definately the brakes. But this is a different noise than that.
Thanks for the input. If the oil change makes no difference, the output bearing is the next thing to check for sure.
rholbrook
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Kaysville, Ut
Noises drive me nucking futs. Especially after I have torn something apart and put it back together. Are you sure it wasn’t there to begin with and you just didn’t care because it was old and wearing out anyway. Maybe you notice it now because you are really listening hard for new engine noises? I’m a noise freak, drives my wife crazy when I am pounding on the dash trying to figure out wear it is coming from.
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Its entirely possible that it was there before and I didn't notice. And I agree, having this crop up after working on everything is super frustrating.
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Phase I:
The later part of Phase I should probably be titled "The Wonders of Oil!" and have a 1950's style narration.
My dad was kind enough to come over today while I was at work and replace the oil in the transmission and transfer case. The oil that came out of the tranny was fine. Amber in color and clean. The t-case though…
Yeah, that’s some water there! Again, probably got in when I pressure washed it, and likely through the holes for the shifters, despite my best effort to tape them off. Anyway, he filled the oil back up with fresh stuff and voila! No more noises! Oil… It’s a hell of a fluid!
So at this point, I need to get the very slight leak due to the hose on the back of the engine fixed. That'll be Saturday, and I'm going to start driving it daily tomorrow to break it in!
The later part of Phase I should probably be titled "The Wonders of Oil!" and have a 1950's style narration.
My dad was kind enough to come over today while I was at work and replace the oil in the transmission and transfer case. The oil that came out of the tranny was fine. Amber in color and clean. The t-case though…
Yeah, that’s some water there! Again, probably got in when I pressure washed it, and likely through the holes for the shifters, despite my best effort to tape them off. Anyway, he filled the oil back up with fresh stuff and voila! No more noises! Oil… It’s a hell of a fluid!
So at this point, I need to get the very slight leak due to the hose on the back of the engine fixed. That'll be Saturday, and I'm going to start driving it daily tomorrow to break it in!
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Phase I:
The valve train chattering is not going away. I've changed the oil twice now in 100 miles; each time there was debris in the oil in the form of shiny dust particles. The chatter is not consistent, either. Some days it won't chatter at all, others as soon as it warms up it starts chattering. Once it starts chattering, it will continue to after consistent restarts. But, if it sits for a bit (20 minutes or so) sometimes the chattering will go away. Sometimes it won't.
Its either still debris clogging passages; which will REALLY annoy me that the machine shop didn't do a better job polishing the cylinders after they did their work. Or there is a faulty lifter. The inconsistency of it really makes me think it's blockage, which would be nice. But unfortunately I'm sort of at the end of my diagnosis skill's beyond beginning to tear it down again. The machine shop has a warranty on their work but when I talked to them last week they were surprised the hear that I was having an issue and kinda just said, "well, run it for a while longer and see if it goes away". Not really encouraging.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
The valve train chattering is not going away. I've changed the oil twice now in 100 miles; each time there was debris in the oil in the form of shiny dust particles. The chatter is not consistent, either. Some days it won't chatter at all, others as soon as it warms up it starts chattering. Once it starts chattering, it will continue to after consistent restarts. But, if it sits for a bit (20 minutes or so) sometimes the chattering will go away. Sometimes it won't.
Its either still debris clogging passages; which will REALLY annoy me that the machine shop didn't do a better job polishing the cylinders after they did their work. Or there is a faulty lifter. The inconsistency of it really makes me think it's blockage, which would be nice. But unfortunately I'm sort of at the end of my diagnosis skill's beyond beginning to tear it down again. The machine shop has a warranty on their work but when I talked to them last week they were surprised the hear that I was having an issue and kinda just said, "well, run it for a while longer and see if it goes away". Not really encouraging.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
Last edited:
- Location
- West Bountiful, UT
Ughhh… that definitely sucks.
- DAA
- DAA
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Ok, further thoughts. What if it were related to RPM's? This morning I had no tick for 30 minutes or so of driving, but then I got on the freeway and hit 5k for a bit and the ticking was there when I got off the freeway and could hear. Went out and started it up a minute ago, let it warm up and then revved it to 5k; ticking started. Nothing conclusive, I'll need to see if it happens again; but do any of you more mechanically inclined folks think that points to anything?
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Yup, happened again. Nothing at lower RPM's, hit 5k for a few seconds, ticking starts.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Could be a sticky lifter that is collapsing under the pressure of higher RMP's and hotter engine oil temps with lower viscosity. Drain out a quart of oil and toss a quart of Lucas oil stabilizer in and see what it does.
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
If that made a difference, would that indicate a bad lifter that needs to be replaced?
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
I'd think so. It would be nice if the lifter worked it's way loose and started working right again, but that seems rare.
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Well, I'll give it a try tomorrow. At least that would indicate an issue that'd be covered by the machine shop warranty...
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Are the cam and lifters new?