Prop 8 results

[Caleb]

A far more civil discussion then I thought would result from my question, that was nice to see.

I honestly don't care who "marries" who. I was just appalled that the LDS members chose to spend "tens of millions of dollars" toward this effort. I just think it is sad that we argue these moral issues and let people all over the world starve and die. What a waste IMHO. Let the gay's do there thing and donate toward cancer research. That seems like a better use of the money.

There's not hardly an organization out there that donates more time, money, clothing, food, etc to the needy people of the world than the LDS Church...regardless of their beliefs.

 

[Greg]

Think about that money and where it comes from, and where it goes though. Most of that money comes from wealthy contributors. It gets spent on television, radio, print, internet, and more ads. It gets spent on airlines, restaurants, clothing stores (in at least one case), etc.

Basically, that money got taken out off the coffers of wealthy individuals (and unions, etc.) and gets put back into circulation in the economy. It seems like a really positive process to me.

I know what you're saying, just mentioning that you can go out and buy anything these days. Kill someone? Buy a good team of lawyers & get off scott free! Want to be President of the US? Spend $900 million dollars!

 

[Seth]

There's not hardly an organization out there that donates more time, money, clothing, food, etc to the needy people of the world than the LDS Church...regardless of their beliefs.

It was not the LDS church that donated. It was individual members after the church called for there assistance.

I am well aware of the good that organized religions do for the needy. I have no grip with the LDS church in that respect. I just think it is stupid to argue moral issues in the context of political frameworks spending millions of dollars along the way. When what shows compassion and exemplifies god like behavior is acceptance and helping those in need.

It is all just such a waste IMHO.

 

[RockMonkey]

The church itself did make donations directly to support prop 8.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_10842051

 

[Seth]

2K is nothing. The "several million" that came from the members is what made the difference. Even more then that all the time that member donated. It is widely reported that the polls moved with mormon involvement. Just think what cause could have been helped with all that effort. And I am not saying the LDS church does not do good, far from it. I just think it is a silly issue to get all worked up about.

 

[scoutabout]

By your statement that would mean that the LDS church would have to be willing to seal me in the temple as my form of marriage even if I wasn't LDS. That is one of the LDS churches marriage ceremony's and I haven't seen anyone forcing the church to marry anyone that comes to the door. your up in the night steve

Churches, Ministers and religious clergy in general can perform a marriage ceremony for anyone they see fit (or refuse those they don't want to on any grounds they wish) and the state provides the legal document. The only person who "Has" to marry anyone that comes and meets the legal requirements is a Judge

Ask ur bishop

Any church (or group) can perform any ceremony they want. Only orgs authorized by the state can perform marriages that will be recognized by the state.

 

[Caleb]

Ask ur bishop

I've had two different family members that were not members get refused by their ward's bishop. It's still the bishop's choice to marry who they want to marry. Quite often, even if they aren't being sealed in the temple, the bishops will still interview the couple and usually have them go through some sort of marriage class.

Any church (or group) can perform any ceremony they want. Only orgs authorized by the state can perform marriages that will be recognized by the state.

No ones disputing that.

 

[scoutabout]

I've had two different family members that were not members get refused by their ward's bishop. It's still the bishop's choice to marry who they want to marry. Quite often, even if they aren't being sealed in the temple, the bishops will still interview the couple and usually have them go through some sort of marriage class.



No ones disputing that.

I was saying ask ur bishop about the prop 8 issue.

 

[DOSS]

Ask ur bishop

Any church (or group) can perform any ceremony they want. Only orgs authorized by the state can perform marriages that will be recognized by the state.

Sorry don't have a Bishop ...

and no-one can force a church to perform any ceremony you need to do some more research steve.. obviously you are lacking some vital info

 

[Cody]

I don't think he was saying that. He said they can marry who they want to marry, but the right to marry people is granted by the state, not the church.

 

[ID Bronco]

Churches and individuals are granted the right to perform binding marriages by the state. Do your research.
.

I thought about responding directly to this, but after doing my research I will let you fumble with it.

 

[scoutabout]

I don't think he was saying that. He said they can marry who they want to marry, but the right to marry people is granted by the state, not the church.

Yes. Scott, I'm more informed than I want to be regarding this subject. Doubters can research this on their own.

 

[DOSS]

They are granted the ability to do so by the state but they also have the ability to say.. NO.. they don't have to marry any tom dick or harry who comes in. kinda like the Right to refuse service that used to be up in many establishments

 

[Cody]

They are granted the ability to do so by the state but they also have the ability to say.. NO.. they don't have to marry any tom dick or harry who comes in. kinda like the Right to refuse service that used to be up in many establishments

Umm, whats the problem here? That's what we've been saying.

The church can choose who they marry, but the state gives them them the power to form a legally recognized marriage.

 

[DOSS]

Umm, whats the problem here? That's what we've been saying.

The church can choose who they marry, but the state gives them them the power to form a legally recognized marriage.

From what steve said earlier

It's clear why Utah and the LDS church would oppose gay marriage. If gay marriage were legalized, then any organization performing marriages would either have to accept ALL types of marriage or not be allowed to perform ANY binding marriages. So if gay marriage is legalized, either the LDS church has to stop performing sealings, or they have to perform sealings for gay couples. Either they can no longer marry couples, or they have to change doctrine and perform gay marriages. Neither avenue are appealing for the LDS leaders.

The church would have to do no such thing.. they would perform the ceremony for who they wanted and wouldn't have to change a thing other than to understand that it was out there and that the Unitarians were probobly all over it

 

[Cody]

oh. I didn't read what steve wrote. I agree with you.

The church can marry whoever they want to marry within the bounds of the state's laws, but the state grants them that power.

 

[scoutabout]

Discrimination by refusing to perform gay marriages will result in loss of authority to perform marriages recognized by the state. The church could still perform any ceremonies, but then the participants would have to go the JP before or after. That's exactly where this is headed, which is why the church worked so hard on prop 8.

 

[Tacoma]

Well, then the challenge will be the separation of church and state, with the church claiming that marriage is a religious ceremony that the state has no right to meddle with, but... that's only if you're going to start seeing gay couples seeking to be married in churches that are unfriendly to such things.

Seems like it's going to be a non-issue, to me.

 

[DOSS]

Discrimination by refusing to perform gay marriages will result in loss of authority to perform marriages recognized by the state. The church could still perform any ceremonies, but then the participants would have to go the JP before or after. That's exactly where this is headed, which is why the church worked so hard on prop 8.

well currently they wouldn't marry me in the LDS temple.. Drinking, Premarital intercourse and a few other things like failure to believe in the lord ***** ****** I guess they will have to have their authority revoked based on your interpretation of the law? or is that law only if they fail to perform a marriage for a homosexual couple? I am failing to see where you are coming from.

 

[Seth]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081108/ap_on_re_us/mormon_backlash_boycott_2