Protests

[Houndoc]

Here is the real difficulty, as I see it at least.

We cannot justify violent protests that damage property or put people in danger. But we ignore or disparage peaceful protests (think Colin Kaepernick.) Even when violent protest happen, most of us quickly go back to 'normal' once they are over and quickly forget what triggered the events.

I also recognize it is hard, if not near impossible, for most of us (yes, whites in a state with limited diversity) to truly understand what life is like for many. Most of us are not racist and like to think that is true of everyone or that systemic racism ended with the civil rights movement. Neither is true.

Saturday night we watched the movie "Just Mercy", which is based on true events. I encourage anyone who has not see it to watch, especially paying attention to when the events happened.

Thus it is easier to condemn the protestors than to really listen to the "why" behind the violence.

So, what can we do?

Listen and learn. Do not question the sincerity of someone's experience just because it is different from your own.

Hold others accountable for racist comments and attitudes, both those in power and those we encounter in our personal lives. I do not believe simply being 'colorblind' personally is enough if we tolerate bigotry in others. I cannot blame any politician for racism, but I do think it has become more socially acceptable to express bigotry over the last 4-5 years. We need to fight against that trend.

I also believe the only way we will see real changes in police behavior is when there is a cultural change lead by individual law enforcement officers, unions and police departments.

 

[DAA]

Violence towards one another is just part of the human condition. Do gooders just can't get their heads wrapped around that I guess.

 

[TRD270]

One side effect I see coming from the rona is the anti-government groups getting much larger.

Don't want to say I told you so but....

"The Tech Transparency Project also found that 60% of boogaloo Facebook groups had emerged following the pandemic lockdowns, during which time they amassed tens of thousands of members"

 

[TRD270]

Thus it is easier to condemn the protestors than to really listen to the "why" behind the violence.

I also believe the only way we will see real changes in police behavior is when there is a cultural change lead by individual law enforcement officers, unions and police departments.

Isn't violence against a police officer because they're a police officer the same as being racist against a black person because they are black?

The only way you're going to see real changes in police behavior is to make being a police officer more attractive. More pay, better benefits, better retirement. Right now you get a very small percentage of good people that want to be cops because they want to be cops. They want to help people, they're intelligent and have good decision making.

Most of the people being hired right now have been trying to get hired over the last 10-15 years and previously didn't make the cut because they had the wrong personality, and now they've finally been hired and they have a chip on their shoulder. Now you have an angry, power hungry person that wears a really heavy badge just waiting to exude his authority.

I've seen it first hand, and i've made complaints to my supervisors about people that I didn't think should be wearing the badge. But nothing comes of it. Why? Because it costs a lot of money to put someone through training. If you can get enough people to apply now days that don't have a significant criminal background and can write their own name on the application and spell it right HR calls that a win. This isn't a problem that is going to go away anytime soon. You now have a generation of people that should not be wearing a badge that have 20-30 years of their career left.

Not going to say all officers hired before were perfect either surely are some people I wish were not officers that were hired before me. And only speaking from a very small in the scheme of things demographic. But if you want good people enforcing the law something needs to be done to attract those people you want enforcing the law. I mean when it takes 8 years to crack 40k a year? and you have to deal with this nonsense? Why?

And if i'm honest, I didn't really care about how little money I made. I really enjoyed the job at first, trying to help people. But my last few years it turned into what you see today. Every call, every traffic stop, every pedestrian stop you have a camera in your face, and some little jerk off that was down "protesting" in SLC with a camera in your face trying to push your buttons and get you fired up so they could post it on youtube.

Probably the biggest reason I quit was Salt Lake Counties justice system. It's horrible, they don't give a shit about justice unless its a high profile case. All Sam Gill cares about is stats. So its plea deal after plea deal after plea deal. He just wants conviction stats, not actual justice served and a punishment that fits the bill. You wonder why crime is on the rise in Salt Lake? Because the criminals know if they get caught, most likely they'll get a little probation which is also a joke, and a fraction of the sentence or even charges for what they actually did.


Also buck up buttercup, all you "protestors" that want change. Thousands of open positions across the nation. Want change? Go make it yourself.

 

[N-Smooth]

Isn't violence against a police officer because they're a police officer the same as being racist against a black person because they are black?

/endthread

 

[Herzog]

I'm pretty surprised that: A) SLC probably got outside instigators and B) KSL is actually reporting on it (loosely, they are trying to debunk it )

KSL Investigates: Was turbulent protest caused by 'out of state' instigators?

After a turbulent protest in downtown Salt Lake City on Saturday, both the mayor and police chief said they suspected instigators came from out of state.

www.ksl.com

 

[Hickey]

Ya know, I had a nice peaceful 3 day weekend camping with no cell service. I get to work this morning and we're at DefCon 2 with hundreds of stores closed up and 100's more that I'm supposed to steer clear of after dark. They want me to keep a 10 mile distance from those stores. 😟

 

[N-Smooth]

Ya know, I had a nice peaceful 3 day weekend camping with no cell service. I get to work this morning and we're at DefCon 2 with hundreds of stores closed up and 100's more that I'm supposed to steer clear of after dark. They want me to keep a 10 mile distance from those stores. 😟

I feel like you could write a book about your driving experiences the last few months.

 

[Hickey]

I feel like you could write a book about your driving experiences the last few months.

It would be mostly boring. The traffic has been pretty sweet though. Plus, I drink a lot on the weekends to forget what happened during the week. 😂

 

[SAMI]

82nd Airborne IRF deployed to DC, as well as MP's from Fort Bragg. I have a feeling we'll see more US Military on the streets of Democrat cities that don't feel the need to put an end to the rioting/looting.

 

[J-mobzz]

I'm pretty surprised that: A) SLC probably got outside instigators and

As someone who travels a lot I feel like the county’s perspective on Salt Lake City is changing. When I’m out and people find out I’m from Utah most people bring up our reputation for an amazing live music scene, High West Whiskey, our cool downtown or amazing outdoor recreation where not that long ago it was just Mormons people wanted to talk about.

 

[Kevin B.]

As someone who travels a lot I feel like the county’s perspective on Salt Lake City is changing. When I’m out and people find out I’m from Utah most people bring up our reputation for an amazing live music scene, High West Whiskey, our cool downtown or amazing outdoor recreation where not that long ago it was just Mormons people wanted to talk about.

Yup. Used to be they were all scared of our Mormons and drinking laws. The state's advertising spree put paid to that.

 

[Kevin B.]

82nd Airborne IRF deployed to DC, as well as MP's from Fort Bragg. I have a feeling we'll see more US Military on the streets of Democrat cities that don't feel the need to put an end to the rioting/looting.

I'm surprised by this and wondering exactly how useful they're going to be without violating the Posse Comitatus act.

 

[Hickey]

Yup. Used to be they were all scared of our Mormons and drinking laws. The state's advertising spree put paid to that.

I think that change began with the Olympics. We put on a damn good show for the world and it's done well for changing people's perception of Utah.

 

[Houndoc]

Also buck up buttercup, all you "protestors" that want change. Thousands of open positions across the nation. Want change? Go make it yourself.

I basically agreed with your comments, until that last line.

You went from a much needed and appreciated assessment of law enforcement (not that I fully agree, simply because the problems of police brutality and racial bias far precede current officers and low wages) to a stereotypical attack on the protestors assuming they are all lazy and poor.

We need to do a much better job of trying to understand and address the real problems in our cities and culturally in our nation.

 

[Kevin B.]

I basically agreed with your comments, until that last line.

You went from a much needed and appreciated assessment of law enforcement... to a stereotypical attack on the protestors assuming they are all lazy and poor.

I don't think he did that at all. He suggested that individuals interested in change in law enforcement to step up and be that change, instead of blocking traffic and flipping cop cars. Not sure where you got "lazy and poor" from.

 

[SAMI]

to a stereotypical attack on the protestors assuming they are all lazy and poor.

How in the world did you see that in his comment of, "... [you] want change, thousands of open positions across the Nation."

How is that an attack on protesters?

 

[moab_cj5]

I basically agreed with your comments, until that last line.

You went from a much needed and appreciated assessment of law enforcement (not that I fully agree, simply because the problems of police brutality and racial bias far precede current officers and low wages) to a stereotypical attack on the protestors assuming they are all lazy and poor.

We need to do a much better job of trying to understand and address the real problems in our cities and culturally in our nation.

I respectfully disagree. His last line makes perfect sense to me. If these protesters really wanted to enact change within Law Enforcement, they should apply for open positions and be the change they are wanting to enact. As LEO's, they would be able to approach situations from a new perspective and can help fellow officers see things differently.

It is one thing to protest and make your voice heard so you can make a difference. That's easy. Actually applying to be a LEO and actually doing something meaningful to enact change, that's hard. I suspect those protesting don't want to put in the actual effort needed to make things change.

Protesting isn't the problem. The problem is opportunistic scum bags that use this as an opportunity to spread violence and criminal mischief and ride the tail of the peaceful protesters.

 

[SAMI]

I'm surprised by this and wondering exactly how useful they're going to be without violating the Posse Comitatus act.

From everything that I have seen they actually don't have any standing orders, but are being stationed near potential trouble areas in the event that Trump invokes the Insurrection Act and calls them up.. This way they are onsite faster than moving out from Ft Bragg.

 

[TRD270]

I basically agreed with your comments, until that last line.

You went from a much needed and appreciated assessment of law enforcement (not that I fully agree, simply because the problems of police brutality and racial bias far precede current officers and low wages) to a stereotypical attack on the protestors assuming they are all lazy and poor.

I think you misunderstood that line. Not saying they are lazy and poor, that they don't have jobs. I'm saying if they want to make a change in police behavior, go become a police officer.

Also yes all brutality and racial bias is not related to current low wages, but it certainly has been amplified by it.

You will most likely never have a department without a racist or hot headed officer in it, and incidents against citizens will always happen (and do against people of all ethnicities. They just don't make the 6 o'clock news because its not as good of a headline. After all police officers are human too.

How do you fix that? I don't know. You have to go through at least in Utah a thorough background test, polygraph (where they ask you about things like racism, anti-government etc etc) as well as about a 2000 question psychological test where they ask you the same question about 50 times 50 different ways to again ask about racism, anti-government affiliation. But people are always going to sneak through the cracks. And yes when they do, the good 'ole boy system needs to go away and they need to be removed from their position, instead of being swept under the rug, i don't disagree with that at all.

But violence and property destruction isn't the answer. All police leaders one way or another are voted into office. You don't like how things are running go to a city council meeting and let your mayor know. If the mayor doesn't want to change up the leadership vote them out. And please please next election vote for a new sheriff in SLCO...... Rivera has destroyed that department