Protests

[J-mobzz]

So Ive also been putting thought into this. sure I think racism is very real and definitely plays a role in many police interactions. More importantly I feel like its a power issue the public needs to regain from law enforcement and government in general. My previous statement about knowing there are good cops also I have to really think about that. Here is why I say that. If the good cops stand next to the bad cops how can we tell them apart? If I cant tell them apart are the good ones good? For example the video Jeeper poster of the man being shot in the back point blank with a beanbag gun here in SLC. That was clearly a "Bad" cop. How can you be a good cop if you see that and let it go? In my opinion you cant.

This video below for example. Sure two officers were suspended pending a flawed internal investigation but look at all those other cops that let it happen and just stand there. Are they good cops? In my opinion no good cops don't stand there and let someone bully an elderly man like that.
The internet is full of thousands of videos right now of cops abusing power. Driving by spraying peaceful protesters with pepper spray. Not to mention police clearing out protesters with pepper gas from Trumps bible picture. To me the more disturbing part is all the cops not abusing power watching and not doing anything.

Remember police officers have a choice. They do not have to be officers and choose to participate by being an officer even if they do nothing other than watch the bad ones getting away with it they are supporting it by standing by. James Miller's chose to resign his position after he decided

Now these are just my opinions. Nothing more. I feel like most of you wont agree with them and that's ok. I still really enjoy this forum and everything everyone contributes to it.

 

[benjy]

An interesting read- about an accomplished, articulate and highly successful black man and his experiences.

Guest opinion: My black husband didn’t defend me in front of the police. Here’s why

Alex Boyé, my buoyant, fun and energetic husband, went completely still and silent. I was irritated. Then I learned more.

www.deseret.com

When my wife gets pulled over for speeding and I’m in the passenger seat, I go silent too. What is there to argue about? She was caught speeding, and the officer will deal with the situation as he deems necessary. My interjection will never de-escalate that situation. If my wife was getting aggressive with the officer I may address her to calm her down, but I’m notgoing to rush to my wife’s defense for breaking the law.

I have also been in that position with a babysitter . If a 16 year old girl is babysitting for us, I wouldn't drive her home without my wife riding along.

It is strange to me that this article has gone “viral” as it mostly seems like common sense, regardless of skin color 🤔

 

[TRD270]

This video below for example. Sure two officers were suspended pending a flawed internal investigation but look at all those other cops that let it happen and just stand there. Are they good cops? In my opinion no good cops don't stand there and let someone bully an elderly man like that.
The internet is full of thousands of videos right now of cops abusing power. Driving by spraying peaceful protesters with pepper spray. Not to mention police clearing out protesters with pepper gas from Trumps bible picture. To me the more disturbing part is all the cops not abusing power watching and not doing anything.

No excuse for what happened in the video. But to be fair, the man was standing defiantly as they were trying to clear the area. Now was too much force used, could a different tactic have been used sure. But he probably didn't expect that outcome as he pushed the man back.

As far as the 1000's of videos, so many of the ones I've seen lack any kind of context. They happen to cut in right as the officer takes action, with no context of what happened 30 seconds prior.

Put yourself in the officers shoes right now. I'm guessing most of them haven't had a day off since this all started. They are probably working 12+ hour shifts in a highly stressful environment. They are probably out numbered 10-1 or more in most of these situations with crowds of people that are trying to incite anarchy.

Do I condone unjustified police violence absolutely not. But play stupid games win stupid prizes

And remember cops are human, they put their pants on one leg at a time just like you. Nobody is perfect

 

[Kevin B.]

This video below for example. Sure two officers were suspended pending a flawed internal investigation but look at all those other cops that let it happen and just stand there. Are they good cops? In my opinion no good cops don't stand there and let someone bully an elderly man like that.
The internet is full of thousands of videos right now of cops abusing power. Driving by spraying peaceful protesters with pepper spray. Not to mention police clearing out protesters with pepper gas from Trumps bible picture. To me the more disturbing part is all the cops not abusing power watching and not doing anything.

It's interesting how people see different things. I see a group of officers, adrenaline high, getting ready to clear a street and not knowing if they're going to have to fight or get dead cats thrown at them or whatnot. I see a goofy old hippy come up way to close, he's not necessarily threatening but he's confrontational. Then he steps closer and hands start moving and the immediate reaction by the officers is to clear their space. Goofy old hippy wasn't ready for that, trips over his own feet on the way back and lands on his skull. It's over that quick, no time for any other officer to intervene. Immediately after, they're all clearly aware that he's in distress, and the third guy is on his radio right away probably calling in a medic. But they can't drop to their knees and tend to him because they're literally in a battle line with who knows what going on off camera left that's got their attention.

I don't say this to start a fight, or to tell you you're wrong. Just that I'm not sure you're right.

 

[J-mobzz]

I don't say this to start a fight, or to tell you you're wrong. Just that I'm not sure you're right.

Definitely not looking to fight. I appreciate your options and well thought out contributions. Like I said I stated my opinions and that's all they are. My opinions are based on what I see is abuse of power. Also my opinions are formed based on my personal experience starting at 16 yo when I was placed in handcuffs face down on the side of 5400 south near the Jordan River parkway at 2am because my friend and me "looked like known gang members" to less than a year ago being detained in the back of a UHP car because I didn't answer questions Im not legally obligated to answer. Then I had to sit there while he interrogated my children because lets face it even though I've talked to kids several times about not talking to cops seeing your dad put in handcuffs and put in a cop car is scary and of course they talked to him. Until I see a better system of checks and balances with law enforcement I doubt my opinion will change.

 

[Jesser04]

@J-mobzz Why didn’t you just answer their questions?

 

[J-mobzz]

@J-mobzz Why didn’t you just answer their questions?

I must be missing the questions. I just reviewed and didn't see a single question mark in either post below mine.

 

[J-mobzz]

I must be missing the questions. I just reviewed and didn't see a single question mark in either post below mine.

Oh you mean the police? I dont know him and or his agenda. Not answering questions is a way to protect myself.

This is an older video but follows my beliefs when it comes to speaking to police.

 

[Jesser04]

I must be missing the questions. I just reviewed and didn't see a single question mark in either post below mine.

You said the uhp officer was harassing you because you didn’t want to answer his questions? What was his question? I’ve been pulled over several times and asked questions that I didn’t have to answer but I did. When I get stopped I always remove my sunglasses if I’m wearing them and own up to what got me stopped and I’ve only got a ticket once in ten years been stopped probably ten times. It could be my white privilege but I think it has more to do with be respectful and honest. I guess my point is if you don’t like the way your being treated the side of the road while it’s happening is the place to discuss it you lose 9 out of 10 times.

 

[ID Bronco]

Oh you mean the police? I dont know him and or his agenda. Not answering questions is a way to protect myself.

This is an older video but follows my beliefs when it comes to speaking to police.

I saw this video about 10 years ago and have always lived by it. It saved me some major trouble in one instance when 20 FBI agents stormed my place of business and two of them were "interrogating" me alone, after I asked for my lawyer and prior to them stating my miranda rights. I hadn't said anything except "I want my lawyer" (which I did not have since I had never needed one prior to that) and his response after pulling his gun out of it's holster was, "There are two FBI agents here against you, who do you think everyone will believe when we tell them what happened in here?" I told him to screw himself (not a good move, but justified at the time). I'm convinced if I had talked I would be in federal prison right now. They also wanted me to give them my bank account information. I thought, "who gives them anything without a fight?"...............turns out all but one of my co workers gave them everything they wanted.

......................on the other end of the spectrum, I am very respectful when I get pulled over, but I do not volunteer any information except that I am carrying concealed if I am so they are not surprised or overly concerned. I have not had any problems with 99% of the cops I have encountered. When did bad behavior become justified?

 

[4x4_Welder]

Just look at this racist!

View attachment 127996

Which one?

 

[Herzog]

Oh you mean the police? I dont know him and or his agenda. Not answering questions is a way to protect myself.

This is an older video but follows my beliefs when it comes to speaking to police.

100%! Saying too much even when you are innocent can ruin your life in the judicial system.

 

[Jesser04]

Oh you mean the police? I dont know him and or his agenda. Not answering questions is a way to protect myself.

This is an older video but follows my beliefs when it comes to speaking to police.

Do you answer when the cop asks “do you know why I stopped you?” Or do you just sit there silent? I’m 100% on board if you’re breaking the law and you get caught shut up. For example “have you been drinking?” Or “is there any drugs or alcohol on your vehicle?” But when I get pulled over and I’m “where are you coming from?” I can entertain that question. What’s the old saying you catch more bees with honey?

My point here is I don’t think hard assing a cop gets you anywhere unless you think you’re going to jail.

And yes for the record I’ve had cuffs on a number of times and been to jail a time or to as well.

 

[Herzog]

Do you answer when the cop asks “do you know why I stopped you?” Or do you just sit there silent? I’m 100% on board if you’re breaking the law and you get caught shut up. For example “have you been drinking?” Or “is there any drugs or alcohol on your vehicle?” But when I get pulled over and I’m “where are you coming from?” I can entertain that question. What’s the old saying you catch more bees with honey?

My point here is I don’t think hard assing a cop gets you anywhere unless you think you’re going to jail.

And yes for the record I’ve had cuffs on a number of times and been to jail a time or to as well.

I think more often than not it's ok to answer those type of questions, like you said mutual respect goes a long way. But cops are people too and sometimes people get chips on their shoulder. Play accordingly. If the questions seem like entrapment, don't answer. A lot of it is relative.

I've had good experiences with most officers in Utah, but I've also had experiences where keeping my mouth shut would have definitely been the right thing. No scenario is the same. You can be very respectful and decline answers at the same time.

I'm more scared of the judicial system than a law officer during a routine traffic stop. I've had a judge yell at me for driving on a sidewalk that was designed to be driven on. Even got photos of city trucks driving on it. Got a trespassing ticket for using my truck to pick up audio equipment after a concert. We had a permit to be there. It's all really stupid and IMO the system is designed more the make money than actually help in many cases. But I'm not gonna go burn down a city because some guy on drugs stopped breathing from being held down in a position that doesn't inhibit breathing.

 

[J-mobzz]

Do you answer when the cop asks “do you know why I stopped you?” Or do you just sit there silent? I’m 100% on board if you’re breaking the law and you get caught shut up. For example “have you been drinking?” Or “is there any drugs or alcohol on your vehicle?” But when I get pulled over and I’m “where are you coming from?” I can entertain that question. What’s the old saying you catch more bees with honey?

My point here is I don’t think hard assing a cop gets you anywhere unless you think you’re going to jail.

And yes for the record I’ve had cuffs on a number of times and been to jail a time or to as well.

This is a post I made the day it happened.

Van conversation

So freaking gangster!

www.rme4x4.com

But basically he approached the vehicle I had my drivers licence and registration ready and had my hand out waiting when he came to the window. He asked about insurance I said I had a digital copy on my phone but it was in the back charging and asked if it was okay to grab it. he said yes i grabbed it went to hand him my phone he had me step out and go in front of his car. He had me turn around cuffed me and put me in his car. as he was running my info I remember him asking why i seemed nervous and breathing heavy I said well im in handcuffs and I dont even know why I was pulled over. Thats when he told me he puled me over for seatbelts.

We had gone to lagoona - a- beach and where headed to Lehi to see my dad as it was fathers day. I was not wearing a shirt and I am fairly covered in tattoos with two full sleeves my chest and stomach done not to mention we were driving the creeper van. he didn't really ask me any questions until after I was in cuffs and at that point I wasn't answering SH*T. LIke I said I didn't know him or his agenda.

 

[TRD270]

Couple things pissed me off today. First I have to see this fake ass BS democrats pretending they care. And for the record i'm not a republican, I vote for the best candidate. My views generally have me in the middle. But this happy horse crap disgusts me


Second I see a video of protesters placing a flag on the road and cheering every time a car runs over it..... WTF is wrong with these people

 

[SAMI]

Fun, appropriation scarfs.

 

[Jesser04]

This is a post I made the day it happened.

Van conversation

So freaking gangster!

www.rme4x4.com

But basically he approached the vehicle I had my drivers licence and registration ready and had my hand out waiting when he came to the window. He asked about insurance I said I had a digital copy on my phone but it was in the back charging and asked if it was okay to grab it. he said yes i grabbed it went to hand him my phone he had me step out and go in front of his car. He had me turn around cuffed me and put me in his car. as he was running my info I remember him asking why i seemed nervous and breathing heavy I said well im in handcuffs and I dont even know why I was pulled over. Thats when he told me he puled me over for seatbelts.

We had gone to lagoona - a- beach and where headed to Lehi to see my dad as it was fathers day. I was not wearing a shirt and I am fairly covered in tattoos with two full sleeves my chest and stomach done not to mention we were driving the creeper van. he didn't really ask me any questions until after I was in cuffs and at that point I wasn't answering SH*T. LIke I said I didn't know him or his agenda.

That’s B.S. I wouldn’t be happy about that either. I still believe that most cops are good guys just trying to make a living and go home to their family. Not all cops are bad and not all protesters are looting and burning everything in site. I think the BLM movement would have a lot more traction if they’d take the approach that everyone can/should do better this isn’t all on the cops shoulders.

I’m a firm believe that we need cops. It’s a job I don’t want if someone else is willing to do the job it’s hard for me to sit and bitch to hard about how they’re doing it. Kinda like voting don’t complain if you don’t vote, if people want change become a cop.

 

[anderson750]

It is all in how you FRAME it.

 

[Greg]

It is all in how you FRAME it.

Organizers adjusting to the "new normal".